Small Dish FTA

[Look Up]

I got my start with FTA a couple of months ago using a Coolsat 5000, a Techsat Tracker II+ lnb on an eBay lnb bracket, and a DTV AT-9 dish (~24x29" rounded rectangle). I was very happy to get all of the available signals at 97W. I've since added another Tracker II+ to get the Pentagon Channel and MS91 on 103W (after a lot of fine adjustment to the lnb, for which the mount is still in the prototype phase).

For my next project, I'm planning to set up another dish to receive 123W with an additional lnb to get 129W. Before I start, I was hoping to get some advice and opinions.

I have another AT-9 as well as a Slimline dish available. Any thoughts on which might provide the strongest signal?
I'm assuming that I should aim at 123 and then add a sidearm to get 129, but is that the best approach?
Which of these two dishes would be easier to add a second (or third) lnb? (I haven't come up with anything better than a "hunt and peck" alignment approach with the AT-9 for the second lnb).
How much better is the Tracker II+ lnb at 0.2 dB versus a 0.3 dB lnb, especially with a small dish?

Just for background on my existing setup, I've attached some pictures. The photos show the initial set up for 97 only and also for the extra lnb. For the second lnb, I used a homemade bracket mounted on a tie-strap that is completely separate from the main lnb mount. Until I install a permanent mount, this allows me to swivel, rotate, etc without moving the main lnb.
For the 97W mount, I simply removed the old lnb and installed the Techsat linear lnb with its face at the same location as the existing center lnb that was on the AT-9 and then aimed at 97W. The dish had an Eagle DTVP3 triple-head lnb (which may not be standard, but it had apparently been used for a 101,110,119 setup). I used the nice little eBay bracket that is made for 30-40mm lnb's and attaches by a single nut and bolt through a hole I drilled in the existing arm.

On 97W, I'm getting either 66-70 or 88-90 signal quality depending on the transponder. I think I need a minimum of about 63 to lock. So far it's been good through light snow and fog, but we haven't had a big snowstorm yet. I'm getting about 69 SQ on the Pentagon channel on 103W with the adjacent lnb. Before settling on 103, I got strong signals on 105W (it was hard not to get 105) and also tweaked enough to get 101W. On the other side, I'm hoping to get 87W, but that's probably a longshot. All I've gotten so far is a feed that I think is 91W.

I hope to someday get a motorized C/Ku system, but for now I'm trying to get the most bang for the buck while learning the ropes.

 

[Anole]

good work - thanks for the pix

Looks like you did everything very well.
The only criticism is in using a dish that's borderline too small.
That's not so much a criticism as an "if you don't like your signal levels, you know why". -

As you noticed, you are very close to the cutoff signal quality for the Coolsat.
A larger dish would give you more operating margin, into the bad weather, the rain, and the snow.

As for your bracketry, it all looks fine 'n dandy.
Putting the new LNB at the exact same altitude and angle as an original is all one could ask for.
I've done the same thing on an even smaller dish, but for an easier-to-get Whitesprings signal. -

And at least where I live, the 129°/Whitesprings signal is definitely the one you put on the secondary LNB! -
Or the marginal dish.

If you want to have a better clue where to put your secondary LNB, or if you can even get a second bird that may be too close to your primary, take a look at some calculations I posted in page 4 & 5 of the AMC-21 thread, a while back.
You'll see practical examples, discussing LNB size, spacing, and dish focal length.
In it, there is a link to the original math by MJflash.
It's not at all difficult, once you get the hang of it.

As for the Tracker LNBs being better than others, that has not been shown.
Now that they're available for a low cost, I see no reason not to give 'em a try.
If they work for you, then they're fine.
But, if I wanted two-output models for some reason, or bandstacked LNBs for some reason, there are certainly other competitive choices available.

Not sure if you know, but the Dish Network SuperDish (originally deployed for 121° or 105° birds) has a suitable FSS LNB on it, and at the focal point.
Those dishes are also a little small to -recommend- so don't buy any, but if you run across one, give it a shot!

And for info on connecting a gaggle of cheap little dishes, we have a Switches Simplified FAQ, with many interesting designs.
You might like post #6, if one receiver and lots of dishes are in your future.

 

[Cadsulfide]

Lookup;
Nice work!
I'm pleased with those little red lnb's, have 4 of them working. Ice did a review on them a while back. Anole is right about the superdish (have 4 up, modified), and building an array of smaller dishes works fine until the opportunity to score larger ones comes along. From your pix, you have plenty of room for an array, congrats!

123 and 125 may be a problem with a smaller dish, I was getting interference from one to the other, untill I went to 4' DTN dishes for those two.

 

[Mr Tony]

Very cool pics

 

[Look Up]

Thanks for the input

I appreciate the advice for my small-dish ventures. I know I will hit a limit based on signal strength, but I'm enjoying the educational experience of setting up dishes and lnb's, and I like the reward of watching the channels I get. I'm in part using the small dishes because I have occasional opportunity to rescue an AT-9 or Slimline from being melted for scrap - I can't stand the idea of those dishes with their heavy-duty mounts and precision adjustments being trashed.

I'm going to study the offset lnb placement calculations some more. A calculation seems better than an eyeball adjustment for the placement and angle of an lnb. I've never been good at judging a bankshot at pool, and lnb placement seems kind of like that.

I will check for the potential for interference on 125 if I set up for 123 - I did notice that if I tweak things just right, I can get both 101 and 103 on the secondary lnb I currently have, so adjacent satellite interference seems like a possibility if the transponders are the same.

I'll keep an eye out for a discarded Superdish - I didn't realize that the lnb could be used for FTA.

Finally, I will pay attention to any future posted pics. I was trying to minimize file size, but I see that I also need to adjust pixel dimensions for convenient viewing .

 

[Tron]

Cool, thanks for the pics! I rescued a Slimline from the trash tonight, looks brand new. Very complex and well-built dish. If only there was a way to simply unbolt the DBS and Ka LNBs and replace them directly with Ku models (like a C-120 flange...)

 

[Cadsulfide]

I'll keep an eye out for a discarded Superdish - I didn't realize that the lnb could be used for FTA.

.

The superdish is easy to mod for std lnbs, there's a thred on it. Also the lnbs are flanged, I have a DTN with the stock feed horn and a SD FSS lnb on 123W.

 

[Greg Mueller]

Back when I was a DN HD subscriber, I couldn't get the 129 bird with the supplied equipment and so I started my quest for the Primestar dishes. I made this little webpage which shows and adapter I made to hold the DN LNB on the Primestar mount

The VSA

I think I have posted this before so some might have seen it

 

[Cadsulfide]

Back when I was a DN HD subscriber, I couldn't get the 129 bird with the supplied equipment and so I started my quest for the Primestar dishes. I made this little webpage which shows and adapter I made to hold the DN LNB on the Primestar mount

The VSA

I think I have posted this before so some might have seen it

Nice page Greg!

 

[Look Up]

A follow up

Greg, that's a nice looking mount - quite a bit better than my wood block and hose clamp technique!.

We finally got a bit of snow last night (about 2 inches in 2 hours) and I was able to keep a lock on all 97W signals with my AT-9 dish except for slight drop outs on 11788V, which is the weakest transponder for me. The Pentagon Channel and MS91 on the adjacent 103W lnb remained good.

By the way, my Coolsat 5000 shows 11786 instead of 11788; does this matter for signal strength considering I'm trying to get the most out of a small dish?

 

[Mr Tony]

G

By the way, my Coolsat 5000 shows 11786 instead of 11788; does this matter for signal strength considering I'm trying to get the most out of a small dish?

nah...each LNB reads different and when doing a blind scan it can be off

I know when I blind scan H2 (74W), Ohio News scans in on
11732
11731
11733
11734
11735

depending on the scan

(the actual published frequency is 11733 by the way)

 

[Anole]

Back when I was a DN HD subscriber, I couldn't get the 129 bird with the supplied equipment and so I started my quest for the Primestar dishes. I made this little webpage which shows and adapter I made to hold the DN LNB on the Primestar mount
The VSA

Looks like you do good work!
Should have joined us sooner.
Here are some tidbits:
- Dish will be using a new bird at 129° by the end of the year, if all goes well
- something smaller than 1.2m would have fixed the problem (freeing that 1.2m!)
- LNBs off a SuperDish 121° would yield a DBS and FSS LNB capable of bolting to your Channel Master feedhorn (hope you still have it)
- while I might not suggest it for a 1m, quite a few of the guys here have C-band LNBs on 1.2m dishes
- PopCornNmore pictures of brackets to hold scalar on 1.2m dish: rear view; side view

So, we have all sorts of interesting projects to fuel your fires!
Glad to see another hands-on guy here on the forum!

 

[Greg Mueller]

Originally I was looking for the smaller Primestar dishes, but all they use around here is the 1.2m. They must have had problems with the foot print back then too.
It sure fixed the 129 problem. People are real eager to get rid of them. It was like looking for easter eggs

 

[TRG]

Originally I was looking for the smaller Primestar dishes, but all they use around here is the 1.2m. They must have had problems with the foot print back then too.
It sure fixed the 129 problem. People are real eager to get rid of them. It was like looking for easter eggs

Grab a couple for me and bring them to New Mexico when you move. I'll pay you for your trouble. Primestar dishes are hard to find here in the Albuquerque / Santa Fe area.

 

[Tron]

Originally I was looking for the smaller Primestar dishes, but all they use around here is the 1.2m.

That would be no problem for me I don't think I've ever seen a 1.2 meter Channel Master that was used for P* around here. There have been a few sightings of 84e's though...

 

[phlatwound]

That would be no problem for me I don't think I've ever seen a 1.2 meter Channel Master that was used for P* around here. There have been a few sightings of 84e's though...

Same here, I don't think 1.2s were ever used for P* in this area back in the day, but we were probably near the center of the footprint.

I'm sure there's lots of folks around here that would be glad to help Greg out with his oversupply of 1.2s.

 

[Anole]

I'm sure there's lots of folks around here that would be glad to help Greg out with his oversupply of 1.2s.

Yea, isn't that the truth.
If you were to head off to NM any time in the near future, carrying some spares, I'd be happy to come out and meet you on your route.
Dinner's on me.
You'd be surprised what people would do for two 1.2m commercial dishes.

Ya might see what RV1pop would do for ya, as well.
Check his signature for location. (close)
I'm sure he'd appreciate a few for his compound, too. - :up

 

[rv1pop]

Lynnwood to Port Gamble

Yea, isn't that the truth.
If you were to head off to NM any time in the near future, carrying some spares, I'd be happy to come out and meet you on your route.
Dinner's on me.
You'd be surprised what people would do for two 1.2m commercial dishes.

Ya might see what RV1pop would do for ya, as well.
Check his signature for location. (close)
I'm sure he'd appreciate a few for his compound, too. - :up

Yeah, man! And actually I am a whole lot closer that usual... Right now just across the sound. If I hit the Edmonds ferry it is really close. I could use a few 1.2 M dishes. I can bring my tools and help in the harvest!:

 

[Greg Mueller]

I would think that they were used all around western Washington so there might be some in your back yard. The only downside is that you have to find them. I figure it cost about a tank of diesel for each dish, but we did have fun cruising the back roads. They are bigger than you might suspect too. I could only get one at a time in the back of the pickup (it has a canopy)
I put an ad up on the bulletin board at the post office once and got one. That was the least expensive of them all. It was only about 10 miles away. Probably the most expensive was out at Ocean Shores. Nice drive though. On that trip we saw one that someone had shot repeatedly with a shot gun.

If you go "cruisin for dishes" take binoculars. Some of those farms sit aways off the road

 

[rv1pop]

I am "in the city" right now and have been looking, but have not seen ANY! Might be King/Snohomish county "trash" regulations. The county code enforcement says anything not working is trash and must be removed!
I had to prove all my motorhomes could be moved, the neighbor, who complained, got cited instead for a lawnmower in his yard that would not start! He covered it with a gray tarp - and that was a satisfactory solution. Oh, yes, the inspector did check out my GEOsat PRO and it was working.