Splitter 5-3000 MHz vs 5-2400MHz tp slave receivers (1 Viewer)

Status
Please reply by conversation.

elzipa

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 14, 2008
64
0
Near Calgary, AB
Hi I have a question on splitters to be used to slave my cband receiver to my pansat...

I there a problem using a Splitter 5-3000 MHz or is absolutely necessary to use a 5-2400MHz or 5-2300MHz? does it make any difference?
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
In fact, for many years I used those TV style splitters that were only rated up to 900 MHz, and they worked fine for me. Basically never found any transponder I couldn't lock that I could lock when I finally switched over to the higher quality ones. Basically, I think that those ratings don't mean a whole lot. I wouldn't trust the higher rated splitters ratings any more than the cheaper ones.
 

hd fan

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 1, 2009
754
0
Ontario
well B.J , a splitter rated at 1000 Mhz still allows higher frecuency signals to go through just that the losess will be higher than 3.5 dB (for a 2-way) so it can not guarantee performance above 1 GHz. Maybe in your case signal levels were acctually quite high due to optimal system setup therefore you never had an issue but I bet if you use a signal meter or a SA you will notice the difference specially after the splitter has aged.

in other words i would recommend using the proper splitters rated up to 2.3 Ghz

to the OP , you do not need a splitter to slave the c band receiver off the pansat. I beleive the pansat has a loop out no?.
 

Anole

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 22, 2005
11,819
10
L.A., Calif.
confusing question:

The answer assumes a lot that wasn't said by the OP.
If elzipa wants to slave a Pansat to an analog or 4DTV receiver, then the highest frequency you would experience is 1450mhz (as I recall), and the Analog/4D receiver selects the polarity (H or V).
The term slave, has a specific meaning in this context.

However, if the Pansat controls the feedhorn/lnb, then you might be able to slave the Analog/4D.
But, probably it'd be best to use the loop-out, as recommended above.
In such a hookup, a 4DTV receiver would probably not function correctly.
AND, the actual choice of wiring would be influenced by the feed/LNB on the dish.

As to the frequency range, I agree with Iceberg
you can use a 5-3000 Mhz splitter. The sat frequencies are between 950-2150 Mhz so all 3 splitters you posted would work fine
As I recall, you'll only see 2150mhz if you are using a bandstacked LNBF.
I know of one C-band model on the market: Eagle Aspen B1sat.
And while there is nothing wrong with it, it'll not be analog/4D friendly, so you're probably not using one.
Very few folks combine bandstacked Ku LNBs, as as general rule.
In which case, 1450mhz (?) would be the highest frequency you'd see from the LNB.
And a 1000mhz rated splitter could probably work quite well.
I would still get one tested to the frequency needed, though.

Tell us about your C and Ku LNBs and feedhorn, and the C-band receiver you're using, for a more specific answer.
 

elzipa

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 14, 2008
64
0
Near Calgary, AB
Thanks to all of you for your responses.
In conclusion best to do is to use a HF splitter (better 2300 MHz) to slave a C band receiver with a Pansat.

There are a few concerns after the discussion above:

1- I read in other posts the use of loop out to slave my Pansat, however I have the high definition module installed and the loop out is used...so I guess this option is discarded in this case... correct?

2- I searched the operation of a slaved receivers and did not find it so I my questions is about operation of this two receivers while slaved... what can I do with each to control.. This is assuming I do the normal slave and not using loop out!

- DSR922- is it only to control movement of the dish to set it to desired satellite? also to manage sub channels? anything else?

- Pansat 9200HD - will I be able to hange channels and still control (polarity) feedhorn/lnb? Can I still watch subbed channels includding HD?

Is there anything I would be able to do do with each or a recommended operation.


I am using... 240cm Fortec Star, ADL-RP3-CKu, PAT-8115 and PAT-4106A Lnbs

TX
 
Last edited:

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
well B.J , a splitter rated at 1000 Mhz still allows higher frecuency signals to go through just that the losess will be higher than 3.5 dB (for a 2-way) so it can not guarantee performance above 1 GHz. Maybe in your case signal levels were acctually quite high due to optimal system setup therefore you never had an issue but I bet if you use a signal meter or a SA you will notice the difference specially after the splitter has aged.

in other words i would recommend using the proper splitters rated up to 2.3 Ghz

to the OP , you do not need a splitter to slave the c band receiver off the pansat. I beleive the pansat has a loop out no?.

One quick comment re loop out before the {sorry} lengthy response, and that is that those loop outs are not all the same. Some seem to be basically like a splitter, some seem to be a splitter combined with some amplification, but the bottom line is that some splitters perform very well and others seem to make things much worse than the original. Looking at the spectrum, you wouldn't recognize the signal coming out of some loop thru outputs. I used to prefer using loop thru's, but over the years I've changed my mind, and now I prefer to use splitters.

Secondly, the mention above about the 3.5dB loss expected with a splitter, this is VERY dependent upon the receiver. I have seen situations where you do get such losses, and other cases where you can't detect any difference between the direct signal and the split signal. I _THINK_ that the 3.5 dB loss spec you're quoting depends upon the impedance of every device connected to the splitter. It the receivers are relatively high impedance, they won't affect the signal coming from the LNB, and you won't see much loss, but if the impedances of the receivers are relatively low, then you're drawing power from the source, and it would be split up between the receivers, sort of like putting a high impedance FET-VOM type voltmeter on a voltage source. It won't affect the source much, whereas if you put an old fashioned 20,000 ohms/volt type on a circuit, the voltmeter will draw power from the circuit and affect the voltage reading.

Anyway, I thought this would be a good time to do an experiment. I put my C-band dish on G17, and ran a series of spectrum scans on horizontal.
Basically, I did 4 different scans using my Broadlogic 1030 with Hans blscan.exe program, and displayed data using a VB program I wrote. The 4 scans were:

(1) No splitter, ie direct to LNB (through a channel master meter to insert power)
(2) Using sat rated splitter, power pass to analog receiver.
(3) Using 30 year old RS Archer TV splitter UHF rated
(4) Using a sat rated 4 way splitter, power pass to analog receiver.

Each scan is displayed with a vertical range of zero-100%, horizontal 3700-4200 MHz. I could have zoomed in on the vertical, but wanted to show the raw images.

Ok, then the 4 scans shown below:
(1)


(2)



(3)



(4)



Now, looking at the various scans, the first thing I'd comment on, is that while the 4 scans look almost identical, scan (3) with the cheap TV splitter does show a drop off for the first 40 MHz, but it's primarily a dropoff of the background noise, not the signal itself. Also, there is a slight decrease in scan (4) relative to the signal-background level, but it is no where near what you'd expect from the loss ratings of the splitter. They are really hardly noticeable.

Also, I compared the UHF splitter to the sat rated splitter relative to S/N readings with my TT3200 receiver on the first (CW) signal to the left, and with the UHF, I got 18.2 dB S/N and the sat rated splitter gave 18.8 dB. Again, hardly any difference, and in fact both were varying more than the difference between the two. So basically, the only transponder where there is any difference in the appearance of the spectra doesn't give any issues with respect to locking the transponder, as 18.2 is extremely high for the TT3200. It will generally lock signals down below 5 dB, and will lock S2 signals above 9dB. So I really don't see much problems with respect to using this extremely old TV style splitter.

OK, that's the results. Now my opinion is that would I recommend using a splitter rated above the 1450 MHz top of the band coming down from the LNB? Yes.
Do I think that the splitters rated to 2300 MHz are any better than a TV splitter rated to 800 MHz?
Yes, but only very slightly if you're talking about using them with FTA receivers, and the one I tested is probably a worst case. I really think that most cheap splitters are probably not much different from the fancy sat rated splitters. I am 99% sure that if tested with sophisticated test equipment, that the cheap splitters can be shown to be inferior, but I really believe that this is because the sophisticated equipment would probably be testing the splitters using impedances that aren't realistically comparable to impedances that exist in our consumer equipment.

Finally, do I think that the ratings given to these splitters actually mean anything?
No. But that's just my opinion. And despite my opinion, given the choice, I always choose the more expensive sat rated splitter, but I really think that it's analogous to paying 3 times the money for gold plated audio cables.
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
After doing the above experimentation, and typing the message, I went to tune a PBS channel on Ku. NOTHING. I tried several channels from 4 different LNBs, and NOTHING. Fooey, I thought, the darn diseqC switch kicked the bucket. I went out with a meter and a replacement. Started to replace the switch, but first put the meter on the line from the receiver..... no voltage coming from the receiver!?!?
Went back inside, intending to pull the line from the receiver off the splitter I have there, which sends the signal to a slave receiver. I looked at the floor where the splitter was, and all there was were 3 coaxes laying on the floor. Then I looked in my pocket, and there was the splitter. Ya see, I didn't have a spare 2 way splitter to do my tests above, so I pulled the splitter off Ku band, and used that to test C-band in the previous message. But I forgot to put the switch back on the Ku line. :eek: I guess that destroys any credibility I have left relative to knowing what I'm doing, as I just wasted an hour trying to troubleshoot a problem I caused myself.
 

tdti1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 23, 2004
2,318
1
Montreal, QC
One port power pass high freq splitters work fine I have the 4 way on both c/ku on my system. RPS Satellite

The slave kit comes with a 2 way, I gave them away and grabbed two 4 ways a few months ago as I added receivers. Never had any issues.
 

elzipa

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 14, 2008
64
0
Near Calgary, AB
No a very goog move B.J. that was a good set of tries experimenting bu sometimes mess too much around and ther you have a mistake... I feel sorry about your wasted hour troubleshoot and problem caused. Good start anyways...

But need a na answer on my questions! Anyone please:D



Thanks to all of you for your responses.
In conclusion best to do is to use a HF splitter (better 2300 MHz) to slave a C band receiver with a Pansat.

There are a few concerns after the discussion above:

1- I read in other posts the use of loop out to slave my Pansat, however I have the high definition module installed and the loop out is used...so I guess this option is discarded in this case... correct?

2- I searched the operation of a slaved receivers and did not find it so I my questions is about operation of this two receivers while slaved... what can I do with each to control.. This is assuming I do the normal slave and not using loop out!

- DSR922- is it only to control movement of the dish to set it to desired satellite? also to manage sub channels? anything else?

- Pansat 9200HD - will I be able to hange channels and still control (polarity) feedhorn/lnb? Can I still watch subbed channels includding HD?

Is there anything I would be able to do do with each or a recommended operation.


I am using... 240cm Fortec Star, ADL-RP3-CKu, PAT-8115 and PAT-4106A Lnbs

TX
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
Thanks to all of you for your responses.
In conclusion best to do is to use a HF splitter (better 2300 MHz) to slave a C band receiver with a Pansat.

There are a few concerns after the discussion above:

1- I read in other posts the use of loop out to slave my Pansat, however I have the high definition module installed and the loop out is used...so I guess this option is discarded in this case... correct?
I'm a bit confused re the question here. I *THINK* you're confusing connections on a 4DTV as being loop outs, and I think you're confusing suggestions above referring to using loop with respect to what is slaving what. But basically you have a few options, ie
(1) slave the Pansat to the analog. To do this, you need splitters, and have the 922 control both dish movement and polarity and power the LNBs, and the Pansat will just be able to tune on whatever sat and polarity that the 922 was viewing.
(2) Slave the 922 to the Pansat. Since you have a feedhorn with polarotor, if you do this, you'll still need to control the dish and polarity via the 922, but you can control the LNBs via the pansat, and feed the signal from the pansat to the 922 via the loopthru on the Pansat. It shouldn't matter what you have connected to the 922 in the way of HD or anything as the line from the Pansat's loop will just go in where the coax from the lnb normally went in. However this will also mean you'll need a diseqC switch at the input of the Pansat to select C/Ku, and then the 922 wouldn't be getting Ku through it's Ku port, so that will confuse it's operation. For this reason, the use of the loop thru is really only convenient if you're not planning to use Ku on the 922. If you want Ku on the 922, then it's probably best to use splitters even if slaving the 922 to the Pansat. However, you'll still have the problem that you'll have to tune the Pansat to either C or Ku to watch those bands on the 922, because the Pansat won't be powering the band it's not watching. When you slave the pansat to the 922, the 922 will be powering both C and Ku, so you can watch either band on the Pansat regardless of what you have tuned in on the 922. For that reason, I think it's really easier to just slave the Pansat to the 922..... but it really depends on how you intend to use everything.
2- I searched the operation of a slaved receivers and did not find it so I my questions is about operation of this two receivers while slaved... what can I do with each to control.. This is assuming I do the normal slave and not using loop out!
I hit on this above, but basically the slave receiver needs to watch whatever sat and polarity you're watching with the master receiver. Genenerally you can't control much except channels with the slave.
- DSR922- is it only to control movement of the dish to set it to desired satellite? also to manage sub channels? anything else?
The 922 can view analog and DCII channels which the Pansat cannot tune. The 922 will control polarity via odd/even channels, and will provide power to the LNBs.
- Pansat 9200HD - will I be able to hange channels and still control (polarity) feedhorn/lnb? Can I still watch subbed channels includding HD?
If you slave the Pansat to the 922, the 922 will do everything as it did before.
Is there anything I would be able to do do with each or a recommended operation.
...
TX
Not sure what you're asking here, but as I said, the 922 operation will stay the same. To use the Pansat, however, you need to first move the 922 to the satellite you want and to the proper polarity needed for the channels you want to watch.

I don't have a 922, but have another analog C/Ku receiver. I slave 3 FTA receivers off the analog receiver using a splitter AND the passthru on one of the FTA receivers, but I have the Ku from the BUD slaved to one of my FTA receivers. So there are many, many options, some quite complicated. But the simple way to start is to use splitters to slave the Pansat to the 922, either using the high freq rated sat splitters with the power pass going to the 922, or by using cheap TV splitters with a separate DC block on the line to the Pansat.
 

elzipa

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 14, 2008
64
0
Near Calgary, AB
I installed 5-3000MHz splitters X 2 and a diseqc and now scanning pretty good... started searching all channels. I will hook up another HD receiver Nfusion and see how it goes. Thanks for your response BJ
 
Status
Please reply by conversation.

Users who are viewing this thread

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Top