Polar vs Az/El Mount

[mburns85]

I am in the process of collecting/fabricating parts for some satellites I acquired from a member, and from facebook. Can anyone explain the difference between a polar mount and an az/el mount? Im still a little lost.

Also why would use actuators? Is that only if you want to track multiple satellites on one reciever? If I plan to just point the dish at one satellite, couldnt I just fix the mount in place and call it a day?

I have a 10/11 ft (3m) channel master prime focus fiberglass dish which is really cool. I plan to use it with c band. Not sure what type of mount it is, but I think it may be a polar mount. It has one huge actuator on it (that i am missing parts to). It looks like you set the sat to the right position facing south, and then the actuator can adjust the tilt of the dish. I think I will remove the actuator. To fix it I need to fabricate a few brackets it looks like.

I have a 1.8m (6ft) one piece channel master offset dish. This has no mount. I found a polar mount I can buy, but no luck finding an az/el mount. Still unsure of the difference between the two. If I just wanted to park it on one satellite, any recommendations?

 

[mburns85]

Ok, so I think azimuth is your degrees away from true south? Shouldnt your dish be always facing true south? Or not in practice? I think my 3m channel master is just a polar mount then? Because in order to adjust the azimuth I have to loosen the bolts and spin the clamp on the pole. It seems like the actuator adjusts the elevation only. That would make that a polar mount? Correct?

 

[FTA4PA]

I am in the process of collecting/fabricating parts for some satellites I acquired from a member, and from facebook. Can anyone explain the difference between a polar mount and an az/el mount? Im still a little lost.

Also why would use actuators? Is that only if you want to track multiple satellites on one reciever? If I plan to just point the dish at one satellite, couldnt I just fix the mount in place and call it a day?

I have a 10/11 ft (3m) channel master prime focus fiberglass dish which is really cool. I plan to use it with c band. Not sure what type of mount it is, but I think it may be a polar mount. It has one huge actuator on it (that i am missing parts to). It looks like you set the sat to the right position facing south, and then the actuator can adjust the tilt of the dish. I think I will remove the actuator. To fix it I need to fabricate a few brackets it looks like.

I have a 1.8m (6ft) one piece channel master offset dish. This has no mount. I found a polar mount I can buy, but no luck finding an az/el mount. Still unsure of the difference between the two. If I just wanted to park it on one satellite, any recommendations?

A polar mount will track the whole satellite arc across the sky and skew the lnbf automatically as it moves. It is ususally motorized but in the old days they could use a hand crank to move a dish.

An AZ/EL mount is as it suggests. You adjust the Azimuth and Elevation for each satellite you want to point at. Elevation is the position up and down. Azimuth is the position left and right. Both are measured in degrees. Hope that helps a bit!

 

[mburns85]

Thanks for the reply FTA4PA! I think I get it. But how come some dishs don't move at all, and others do? Im guessing if you have a polar mount with an actuator motor and lnbf controller that is better for signal? If I wanted the best signal, is that what I should go with? I thought the actuator motors were only for moving between 2 different satellites, but I guess that assumption was incorrect. I actually need these actuators to track the satellite in it's arc? I thought the satellites stayed relatively stationary? I guess not?

Sorry for all the newbie questions.

 

[FTA4PA]

Thanks for the reply FTA4PA! I think I get it. But how come some dishs don't move at all, and others do? Im guessing if you have a polar mount with an actuator motor and lnbf controller that is better for signal? If I wanted the best signal, is that what I should go with? I thought the actuator motors were only for moving between 2 different satellites, but I guess that assumption was incorrect. I actually need these actuators to track the satellite in it's arc? I thought the satellites stayed relatively stationary? I guess not?

Sorry for all the newbie questions.

Depends on your needs. If you only care about getting just one satellite an Az/El setup would be fine. If you want to be able to move between multiple satellite then you want a polar mount. Yes, an actuator motor will move the polar mount on your dish across the arc of satellites. No motor needed for Az/El as you would set the azimuth and elevation manually to the satellite you want to receive.

P.S. No apology needed - we were all there once.

 

[arlo]

Ahh. The curious noobs. And great questions.
May I?

Also why would use actuators? Is that only if you want to track multiple satellites on one reciever? If I plan to just point the dish at one satellite, couldnt I just fix the mount in place and call it a day?
Exactly. An actuator on a polar mount will allow the dish to track a precise arc across the sky called the Clarke Belt.
If you only want to look at one satellite. Either mount will do. Azimuth/Elevations mounts are easy to build. Just like every Dishnet/Directv antenna uses. Their use of multiple lnbf's ("eyes" for those who don;t know) that you see to receive multiple satellites have dishes that are shaped to provide a wide viewing arc left and right but not so much up and down. Polar mounts use for fixed satellite viewing also work. But kind of a waste of money for something that will never be needed nor used.

I have a 10/11 ft (3m) channel master prime focus fiberglass dish which is really cool. I plan to use it with c band. Not sure what type of mount it is, but I think it may be a polar mount. It has one huge actuator on it (that i am missing parts to). It looks like you set the sat to the right position facing south, and then the actuator can adjust the tilt of the dish. I think I will remove the actuator. To fix it I need to fabricate a few brackets it looks like.
If it has an actuator then it is a polar mount. It's not exactly the tilt that is being adjusted as it traverses the arc in the sky. But an imaginary arc that follows the equator. Because all geosynchronous (following the same spot on the earth as it rotates on its axis throughout the day) are parked out there some 22,000 miles over the equator. The arc is predictable.

I have a 1.8m (6ft) one piece channel master offset dish. This has no mount. I found a polar mount I can buy, but no luck finding an az/el mount. Still unsure of the difference between the two. If I just wanted to park it on one satellite, any recommendations?
Hey. If the price is right and it's not borked all to oblivion. And of course will fit the dish. By all means get it.
Nothing here or anyplace says you cant use it for just one satellite.
And actually if that's what you wish to do. Setup and finding that single satellite will require less critical setup steps than if you intend on it tracking the arc and receiving multiple sats.
Every polar mount is setup to get that first satellite. Then fine adjustments come later. If it was only steered to look at one satellite. You only need two references angles. Azimuth (left and right) and elevation (up and down). With the correct tilt (skew) angle of the lnbf.

Ok, so I think azimuth is your degrees away from true south? Shouldnt your dish be always facing true south? Or not in practice? I think my 3m channel master is just a polar mount then? Because in order to adjust the azimuth I have to loosen the bolts and spin the clamp on the pole. It seems like the actuator adjusts the elevation only. That would make that a polar mount? Correct?
Everyone has a true South no matter where they live. The imaginary vertical lines going from N to S poles.
Look around your neighborhood. Nobody's dish points true South. Some will point here, some point there.
It depends of which satellite they are aimed at. Since Greenwich, England is the global reference for 0 degrees. A satellite parked at 0 degrees over the equator will have a person's dish pointed true south.
But is you live on the East coast of the US. Your dish would have to point east over the Atlantic to "see" it.
Your dish would definitely not be pointed true South. Right?
A good website is dishpointer.com. You put in your address and the desired satellite and it gives you the angles to set your dish to.
Lets say you want to point to a satellite with a designation 127 degrees West. It is definitely not 127 degrees using a compass with your true South being 180 degrees.
But if you live on longitude line....oh let's say....81 degrees west of Greenwich. Then the satellite at 81 degrees would have a dish pointed very close to true South.


Thanks for the reply FTA4PA! I think I get it. But how come some dishs don't move at all, and others do? Im guessing if you have a polar mount with an actuator motor and lnbf controller that is better for signal? If I wanted the best signal, is that what I should go with? I thought the actuator motors were only for moving between 2 different satellites, but I guess that assumption was incorrect. I actually need these actuators to track the satellite in it's arc? I thought the satellites stayed relatively stationary? I guess not?
He knows his beans for sure. Some dishes (DN/Direc) that receive multiple satellites. Ones where you see combination lnb "eyes" on. Again. The reflector is built to allow a wide angle of view. Let's say +/- 10 degree arc.
Each lnb is actually tilted just a touch to reflect off of the face of the dish. Like banking the cue ball offof a rail at different angles. Sort of.

Polar mount versus Az/El.
Lets say you stand in the yard and watch the moon come up. It comes up off to the east and sets in the West.
Look at it rise above the horizon. Allow your head to move only 2 direstions. Left and right, up and down.
Close your eyes for a bit standing exactly where you are and don't move.
Open your eyes an hour later. The moon has moved. It has risen and gotten higher.
You turn your head left a little bit. And tilt it up. Do it again all night long.
Turn to the right and raise your head. Eventually you head will be as high as the moon can be before it starts to set off to the west.
And then it starts lowering in the sky. Right?
And as you track it. You still move your head right but now lower it.
That's Azimuth/ Elevation.
You required 2 movements to track the moon.

So. Grab a recliner another evening. Situate it so that it's reclined where the top of your head sitting in it would be pointing at the North Star. The moon starts coming up. Somebody rear ended you and your doctor gave you a neck brace. So you can only turn your head left and right. Time for a six pack or two.
Look left and watch the moon rise. Slam a few cold ones. Close your eyes and chill for a bit but dont move your head a single bit.
Open them up and look straight. The moon is now higher in the sky and has moved to the right in the sky.
So you turn your head right to look right at it. I prescribe another beer....*pssssssht*.
You only had to move it to the right. No up and down needed. Right?
Besides getting up to take a squirt here and there. All you need to do to track the moon is turn your head a bit more to the right.
And there's your polar mount, Mister!

Would be the same with a kids' telescope. Look at Jupiter. As the earth turns the planet leaves the eyepiece.
And you have to use the adjustments to move it a little right and a little higher.
Did I mention that I'm an astronomy buff?
The kids' scope has an az/el mount.
I use an equatorial (polar) mount. I set the tripod and mount up to oriented at the North Star.
To track anything I just need to make a few settings and move the scope thorough one angle and it tracks perfectly centered.
Open your eyes again

 

[mburns85]

Thanks arlo, that was quite informative. I think I got my mounts under control. Looks like I just need to do a little fabricating and I should be good. I found a nice birdview 10' aluminum spun satellite in my back yard.. fellow said he would sell it to me, I offered him $100... he said he wasnt using it. Asked if satellites were coming back. Also found a nice commercial 12 ft too, but I am not sure that fellow will want to sell it... I am going to knock and ask though, lol. I am talking to a forum member nearby, he has a nice tracker on his dish, I figure I would leave his as is if I can acquire it, but that will depend on when I can tear my friend away from his welding work for most of a day.

How bad is 5g interference on c-band? should I just buy an inline filter and not worry about it? I have a tower about 4000 ft behind my house and that kind of makes me nervous. My sats should point away from it though if that matters.

 

[arlo]

Nope! What if they lived at the South Pole?

Boy. Imma' talking 'bout the good ole You-Ess-of-A.
Top of the food chain.

 

[arlo]

Where I live I think 5G interference will probably never be a thing. So, interested in hearing the others chime in.
If you're a good fabricator you should do good in this hobby. So many think they can flop a dish up or bring one out of mothballs and get reception in a jif. Aint so.
My understanding from reading other posts is that 5G interference comes mainly from line of sight and side lobes of the dish. I see many satellites already have migrated transponders out of 5G frequencies. So, again, interested in finding out those hurdles the dudes are experiencing. It's difficult finding a newer lnbf without filtering as a matter of fact.
All in all If you have an opportunity to grab a large diameter reflector and a robust polar mount. Do it.
You can refurb it and use it for a single satellite today and build up from there.
Just getting rid of the bronze bushings and replacing them with pillow block bearings in my polar mount made 'old rusty' solid as a rock.
The 6" well casing that the dish sits on hasn't budged a bit since the 80's.

 

[FTA4PA]

No 5G interference here... yet... in Central PA.