SSD v HDD For Laptop

[Steve Mehs]

Well it appears my quest for laptop ownership is almost here. The Sandy Bridge processors are back, Windows 7 SP1 is out, now I’m just awaiting for HP to do their Spring refresh for their DV7 series and I’ll be all set to order. By mid March they should be out. I’m looking forward to having not one but two USB 3.0 ports, and rumor has it a backlit keyboard.

Anyhow, while I have all the components I want already in mind (basically best of everything offered), I was thinking about solid state drives. The hard drive I was going to order the laptop with was a 640GB 7200 RPM hard drive. While I enjoy having the biggest, best and baddest, truth be told I don’t need hard drive space. This computer I’m using right now has a 1TB drive in it and I’m using a whopping 47 GB. Hard drives today are way too big for me.

I’d rather have speed then size when it comes to hard drives. I always tell other people I’d take a 250 GB 10,000 RPM drive over a 2TB 7,200 RPM drive anyday, now here’s a chance for me to make good on my statement, sorta. The solid state drive that HP offers is 160GB and it’s an additional $170. Cost really isn’t that much of a factor for me, but how much speed benefit would I see going from a 7,200 RPM drive to a SSD? I know there are other benefits like no moving parts so there’s more durability and not that I care about weight as I think this laptop will end up weighing in at about 10 lbs, solid state drives should weigh slightly less. Any thoughts or opinions?

 

[diogen]

Since you are waiting 'til March, might as well wait for this to go on sale
OCZ Vertex 3 Preview: Faster and Cheaper than the Vertex 3 Pro - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

Having said that, I'm still not sure it is a very good idea.
Pros:
- faster boot ups/shut downs
- less heat, less noise
- not sensitive to shocks.
Cons:
- price
- no noticeable improvements in running standard apps (browser, Office, etc.)
- longevity (claimed to live at least as long as HD, but that's theory).

That is my experience with older SSD, first generation Vertex and Intel.
Maybe these new ones will make a difference...

Diogen.

 

[John Kotches]

I guess it depends on your definition of not noticeable. I've been tuning SSDs on my personal machines for 2 years.

Apps install and remove practically instantaneously. They open and close in a blink of an eye. Even large files run smooth as butter. This has been on win vista, Mac OS and Solaris.

It's hard for me to use the mechanical spindle system provided by the company. I install and remove programs much more than typical so perhaps I'm a corner case. If the increased cost isn't a back breaker, I can't help but say the decision is a good one.

Diogenes, have you used any systems with an ssd on a regular (everyday) basis?

Edit add... I see you have some outdated experience. Current performance is amazing.

As far as reliability, every drive should be backed up.

Sent from my LogicPD Zoom2 using Tapatalk

 

[diogen]

Yes.
Latitude E4200 with first gen Intel X25 and desktop with a Vertex 60GB.
The desktop also has a Dell Constellation 10K SAS drive.

Copying big files between SAS an SATA drives is more noticeable than SSD and SAS drives.

Replacing the HD with a SSD on an older PC makes a hell of a difference.
On new (=fast) machines the difference isn't as noticeable.

That's on Windows 7.
Haven't used Solaris on desktop (and on laptops since first Tecras) and have no plans...

Diogen.

 

[Stargazer]

Since it makes a larger difference on an older machine than a new one, would the money be better spent on a newer machine? With what one could sell their older machine and the cost of the SS upgrade it might make more sense to just buy a new one if its about the same performance. Perhaps an exception would be an older machine that is higher priced. Maybe it does not make as big of a difference on the newer machines due to Windows 7 being such a resource hog compared to XP.

 

[diogen]

Since it makes a larger difference on an older machine than a new one, would the money be better spent on a newer machine?

This depends.
On a desktop - not necessarily. On a laptop - maybe.

Replacing an older 4200rpm laptop hard drive will show dramatic improvements.
But you can't go too far back, since consumer SSDs are SATA only and some 4+ year old laptops use IDE.

Again, this latest batch of 500MB/s+ read/write SSDs might make a difference...

Diogen.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I have a carputer in my truck. (Its an actual computer mounted under the passengers seat of my truck, which is tied to a touchscren monitor on my dashboard)

I went from a standard laptop drive to a SSD drive as the vibration on the computer killed 2 standard hard drives.

You would think that a SSD drive would be great in that setting since it has no moving parts, but I am now on my 3rd SSD from OCX which have been failing do to interface board failure in the drives. OCX has been very good at replacing them though...

I would stick away from SSD's until you see machines that have TRIM support, with that the life of the drive will be extended greatly.

 

[diogen]

I am now on my 3rd SSD from OCX which have been failing do to interface board failure in the drives.

From what I heard (no personal experience) SSDs are much more sensitive to power supply irregularities.
Do you use an inverter to 120V and a standard PS or do you feed it 12V directly?

Diogen.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

It goes from the trucks battery to a special mobile power supply.

M2-ATX 160W Smart Automotive Grade Mini ITX PSU

 

[diogen]

Looks like it should be able to do the job...
One more thing to try - hot glue the power/SATA connectors (outside plastic only).
Better to use the one block connector for both.

(I remember the first DIY speaker crossover done without hot glue - it would last for a few hours max).

Diogen.

 

[diogen]

Edit add... I see you have some outdated experience. Current performance is amazing.

Right...
I think we heard this and more from you some 25 months ago in this thread
http://www.satelliteguys.us/160502-solild-state-disks-3.html#post1669883

Most of it was wishful thinking (to put it politely) then, and I believe so it is now.
Unless of course Solaris makes all the difference...

Diogen.

 

[mike123abc]

I have used several different brands of SSDs, and the one I stick with is Intel. They are not the fastest, but they are the only brand that I have not suffered a failure with. I have 6 Intel ones in use right now.

Anandtech's review of the Intel 510 today had this reliability chart The Intel SSD 510 Review - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

 

[diogen]

I'd really like to see them used for 5+ years without running into something like TRIM again.
And then claim comparable longevity.

Diogen.

 

[jayn_j]

Well, we are using SSDs at work for an airborne network server system. We went SSD to be able to make the required reliability numbers. I believe they are COTS units, but there is COTS and there is consumer grade. I expect these are mighty expensive units. I may take a look at the detailed specs and try and get a model number.

 

[mike123abc]

Intel has an industrial line for servers. Intel® X25-E Extreme SATA Solid State Drive

They use SLC flash which has 10-20x the number of erase cycles, 1000G operating shock, and a 70C operating temp for industrial enviroments. But you pay about $700 for a 64GB drive... definitely not for the home consumer

 

[Ilya]

Here is another OCZ Vertex 3 Review:
http://www.storagereview.com/ocz_vertex_3_review_240gb

... it's not just faster like, "Woo, it edged out the prior generation SF-1200 SSDs, yeah!" It's faster like, "Holy @&#% that's fast," boasting 69% faster results in some of our real-world tests.

Perhaps this is all the more impressive too because OCZ is using 25nm MLC NAND. While the initial implementations of 25nm in the Vertex 2 were not good (the jury is out still on the re-done Vertex 2), there's no performance hiccup with the Vertex 3. Any drive reliability concerns should also be assuaged with TBW numbers ranging from very high to just insane. The Vertex 3 also carries a 3-year warranty and MTBF of 2 million hours.

 

[John Kotches]

Right...
I think we heard this and more from you some 25 months ago in this thread
http://www.satelliteguys.us/160502-solild-state-disks-3.html#post1669883

Most of it was wishful thinking (to put it politely) then, and I believe so it is now.
Unless of course Solaris makes all the difference...

Diogen.

I use machines with SSD daily, PC, Mac and Solaris.

I've had one failure in a couple of years. That is about the same as a mechanical drive.

My opinion hasn't changed in 2 years, and one you goto a solid state drive it is difficult to go back.

Scott's reliability issue above is a mechanical failure not of the media itself. Could be the mechanical and solid state units had the same mode of failure.

I'm definitely a champion of solid state because I've spent too many hours dealing with disk issues professionally.



Moar gees with gginggerbread and tapatalk!

 

[diogen]

I use machines with SSD daily, PC, Mac and Solaris.

I've had one failure in a couple of years. That is about the same as a mechanical drive.

My opinion hasn't changed in 2 years, and one you goto a solid state drive it is difficult to go back.

Scott's reliability issue above is a mechanical failure not of the media itself. Could be the mechanical and solid state units had the same mode of failure.

I'm definitely a champion of solid state because I've spent too many hours dealing with disk issues professionally.



Moar gees with gginggerbread and tapatalk!

I deal with SSD daily on PCs and (VMWare) servers. From 8GB first 9" netbooks to server versions.
I haven't change my mind either: it is a blessing for certain usage.

The previous discussion happened before the TRIM issue was discovered.
If you believe that was a non-event, we look at things differently...

Diogen.

 

[Magic Static]

Hard drive space is a must for me, so I use a HDD in the laptop. But my desktop has the room for lots of drive space so my system drive is a pair of OCZ Agility 2 SSDs (120gb ea) in a RAID 0 set. Stupid Fast. My outlook has a 2gb mail folder but opens instantly. Windows loads in about 20sec (BIOS to Log In) with all background apps loaded. Downside of a RAID controllor is it hides the drives from TRIM. You have to manually configure the system for SSD use.

 

[John Kotches]

Magic:

I hope you are doing regular backups -- RAID 0 is very risky regardless of drive technology.

You get the worst of both ... hardware and the genius at the keyboard can toast your data.


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