Starz - Spartacus:Blood and Sand - Anyone else looking forward to this?

[Lothar27]

Lucy Lawless should change her name to Lucy Braless

 

[gadgtfreek]

Im not complaining...

 

[TNGTony]

It's really one of those things I put up with, like on "Deadwood" with the constant profanities. It kind of bugs me that they do this. Yes I know the Romans had very loose views on sex and were a brutal society by our prudish standard. I just see the way this series is written as an adolescent who realizes he can say the word F*** with no repercussions. Most if not all teenagers curse worse than sailors on leave when talking among themselves, but most grow out of it and realize that there are societal norms. Only people most would consider crude and vulgar continue to use such salty language in mixed company.

So it is with series produced for HBO, Showtime and now Starz. The producers/writers are like children who just discovered they can say F*** or show the act on the screen. Full male frontal nudity showing a man with an freakishly large member is new and exciting to these film-school adolescents. Hopefully they will grow out of it and learn how to convey the acts and language without saying it explicitly.

When looking at this week's episode as the little B**** was picking out her gladiator to be, in my head I was seeing Madeleine Kahn in History of the World Part 1 singing in front of he line of her guards who were naked from the waist down as she picked out the ones that she would go to the orgy with: No, yes, no no, no, no yes, no, no, (eyes go wide) YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS."

A few bare cheeks in that one, and it conveyed every bit the same thing as this week's episode (of course with humor in Ms Kahn's case). Being allowed to use language and show everything really makes for lazy writing.

" I love 'double-time -harch'"

 

[mike123abc]

It's really one of those things I put up with, like on "Deadwood" with the constant profanities. It kind of bugs me that they do this. Yes I know the Romans had very loose views on sex and were a brutal society by our prudish standard. I just see the way this series is written as an adolescent who realizes he can say the word F*** with no repercussions. Most if not all teenagers curse worse than sailors on leave when talking among themselves, but most grow out of it and realize that there are societal norms. Only people most would consider crude and vulgar continue to use such salty language in mixed company.

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching the Inbetweeners on BBCA. Sometimes it seems like half their words are bleeped out. I wonder if they bleep in the UK or is that just BBCA.

 

[Lothar27]

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching the Inbetweeners on BBCA. Sometimes it seems like half their words are bleeped out. I wonder if they bleep in the UK or is that just BBCA.

From what I noticed when I was in the UK years ago they didn't do much if any bleeping out of the words. Didn't take the time to watch much tv but the late night stuff could be pretty racy. I remember watching the original Get Carter with Michael Caine on BBCA about 6 or 7 years ago later at night and they didn't bleep out anything during that movie. Showed all of the nudity as well. Seems they've been censored like everyone else.

 

[BlackHitachi]

Full male frontal nudity showing a man with an freakishly large member '"

Freakishly?? Well bigger then most but i guess i understand what you are saying. I kinda agree to a point but from all the book i have read they are staying pretty on point with what happened.

 

[kstuart]

Actually, the use of the F word in Ancient Rome is obviously an anachronism.

Only in the modern confused era, could the word for one of the most popular activities be a curse word.

Imagine replacing the F word with the word "dine". "You diner!" makes no sense as an expletive.

In the world portrayed in "Spartacus" (and "Rome"), no one would use the F word, and in fact, the curse word was undoubtedly "curse" as in "Curse You!" as the ancient Romans certainly believed in curses...

 

[kstuart]

It's really one of those things I put up with, like on "Deadwood" with the constant profanities. It kind of bugs me that they do this.

Concerning Deadwood:

Would 1870s cowboys really use such bad words? A verbal shoot-out over Deadwood.

By Carl Swanson
David Milch, creator of the new HBO Western, Deadwood, is peeved that TV critics keep carping about his potty-mouthed pioneers. “After a while, it gets a little discouraging,” he growls, calling right back from L.A. to answer the question once and for all: Did 1870s Americans really use such colloquially foul language with the Tourettic frequency of a Hollywood producer?

Jesse Sheidlower, the American editor of the Oxford English Dictionary and the scholar of cussing who wrote The F-Word, says probably not. Not that frontiersmen were genteel. “There were cursing contests when cowboys would get together and insult each other,” he says. But “the evidence that we have is that they were using more religious blasphemy than the sexual insults which are popular today.” And on the show.

As with his earlier boundaries-of-taste-pushing series, NYPD Blue, Milch’s dialogue is designed to let viewers know they’ve entered a world with different standards. So f**k or f**king is used 43 times in the first episode of Deadwood. Sheidlower agrees that the F-word was in use back then. But he says most of the nonsexual uses of it—as an intensifier, for example—didn’t come about until around World War I.

“Motherfucker, as far as anyone knows, was not in use at the time,” he adds. “There are examples of ‘mother f**king’ from court cases in Texas in the late 1880s.” (It was used as an insult.) However, “the word itself doesn’t show up until late nineteen-teens.”

In most dictionaries, cocksucker, which is said eight times in the first episode, dates to around 1890. Sheidlower has found it in court-martial testimony from the Civil War, too, but says that all evidence indicates “it was not as common as it is in the show.”

Milch counters that he spent a year researching the real town of Deadwood, South Dakota, including reading letters and diaries. He cites a bibliography he put together in his research. “It’s called ‘Profanity in Deadwood,’ and it has like 50 sources.” The two main ones he says he used are Richard A. Spears’s Slang and Euphemism (1981) and Ashley Montagu’s The Anatomy of Swearing (1967).

Take cocksucker. “Spears guesses that it began to appear early in the century,” says Milch. But Sheidlower dismisses Spears’s scholarship. “The dates which appear in Spears’s book are not based on solid evidence,” he says. “It’s his supposition.”

Milch, for his part, dismisses the OED for basing its citations on “the first appearance in literature.” After all, he says, “it might take fifteen years for a verbal expression to make it into print.” So Deadwood could cuss like this and the OED wouldn’t know.

Sheidlower, however, won’t back down: “I have absolutely no doubt the language is inauthentic,” he says. And Milch is equally determined to win this shoot-out. A lot of this, he thinks, is that people have been brainwashed by old Westerns—they’re used to the taciturn, deeds-not-words stereotype, not cowboys as sailors. “It’s a resistance to the existence of the imaginative world I’m portraying,” he says. Besides, he adds, “I’m not publishing a dictionary.”





Find this article at:
Deadwood - Swearing in the Old West

 

[TNGTony]

Freakishly??

If you saw this week's episode, you'd know what I was talking about. I've not seen porn "actors" with items that large.

from all the book i have read they are staying pretty on point with what happened.

Again, the story may be accurate on the surface, but we aren't Romans. We, the audience, have different sensibilities. My point is that there is a way to convey the vast differences in how Romans view sex and life in general than just producing Skinemax-style soft core.

Though a very hokie by today's standard, the Kirk Douglas Spartacus broached the "sex is sex no matter who it's with" Roman attitudes with a scene I remember with the Tony Curtis character and his owner. If that scene were done in this series, Tony would have been commanded to strip bare for his dominus' inspection.

I am not saying one is better than another. I am saying that when there are no boundaries, the story-telling is completely unimaginative.

 

[TNGTony]

Concerning Deadwood:

We've been through this, and even a few years after the fact I am unmoved by the argument: "that's how it really was."

The fact that they did this does not refute the point that the audience the series is playing to is not a bunch of ruffians in the old west. The audience has different sensibilities and societal norms. It is absolutely lazy writing to just blurt out the profanity rather than allude to the completely different attitudes in new, creative and interesting ways without slapping the audience in the face over and over and over again. Had the writers written for the present-day audience rather than ignoring the complaints form even ardent fans of the series, it would have lasted longer than two years.

 

[BlackHitachi]

Freakishly??

If you saw this week's episode, you'd know what I was talking about. I've not seen porn "actors" with items that large.


Again, the story may be accurate on the surface, but we aren't Romans. We, the audience, have different sensibilities. My point is that there is a way to convey the vast differences in how Romans view sex and life in general than just producing Skinemax-style soft core.

Though a very hokie by today's standard, the Kirk Douglas Spartacus broached the "sex is sex no matter who it's with" Roman attitudes with a scene I remember with the Tony Curtis character and his owner. If that scene were done in this series, Tony would have been commanded to strip bare for his dominus' inspection.

I am not saying one is better than another. I am saying that when there are no boundaries, the story-telling is completely unimaginative.

I understand now. Point taken

 

[kstuart]

We've been through this, and even a few years after the fact I am unmoved by the argument: "that's how it really was."

The fact that they did this does not refute the point that the audience the series is playing to is not a bunch of ruffians in the old west. The audience has different sensibilities and societal norms. It is absolutely lazy writing to just blurt out the profanity rather than allude to the completely different attitudes in new, creative and interesting ways without slapping the audience in the face over and over and over again. Had the writers written for the present-day audience rather than ignoring the complaints form even ardent fans of the series, it would have lasted longer than two years.

David Milch was a history professor before he was a TV writer.

So, his aim is depict 1876 as accurately as possible (as mentioned, he read the actual diaries of the characters).

Anyone who took offense to seeing 1876 as it really was, is not the target audience. By putting the series on HBO, complete with "Mature Audiences" and "Language" warnings, this was clear.

Rome was the same in that respect - the intent was to show people exactly what Ancient Rome was like.

Spartacus is not really the same. It seems clearly to be pornography. Some episodes concentrate on the historical Spartacus story, but others seem largely to be excuses for pornography, just as the pool boy arriving to clean the pool can be the excuse for an X-rated porno that really is not a statement about pools.

By the way, I would say that the porno aspects have been designed to appeal as much as possible to women (or perhaps gay men). Many soap operas have endless scenarios which will lead up to a guy removing his shirt. Spartacus has a dozen body builders with no shirts for 90% of every episode...

 

[gadgtfreek]

Fight between Spartacus and Crixsys was pretty good. Man, the PQ of the show is outstanding. If the "large" accessories bother you guys, just close your eyes :haha

 

[Paradox-SJ]

The show is absolutely delicious...I am glad they've cut down on the stylized blood scenes from the fist episode though.

 

[The Insider]

Freakishly??

If you saw this week's episode, you'd know what I was talking about. I've not seen porn "actors" with items that large.


Again, the story may be accurate on the surface, but we aren't Romans. We, the audience, have different sensibilities. My point is that there is a way to convey the vast differences in how Romans view sex and life in general than just producing Skinemax-style soft core.

Though a very hokie by today's standard, the Kirk Douglas Spartacus broached the "sex is sex no matter who it's with" Roman attitudes with a scene I remember with the Tony Curtis character and his owner. If that scene were done in this series, Tony would have been commanded to strip bare for his dominus' inspection.

I am not saying one is better than another. I am saying that when there are no boundaries, the story-telling is completely unimaginative.

I think they showed it so we understand what was considered "value" in that era. How she thought just because he had a big .... that he would make a great galiator. That he was more a "man" then others.. And SPOILER

At the end of the run with him, after he tried to kill spartacus they even made reference to it as they took it away. (takeing away his man hood)

 

[The Insider]

The show started very slow and had way to much styleizing going on (ya know the fancy blood, slow down speed up, fake scenery) and got annoying, but I think they really hit a perfect median. The last 3 episodes have been so good it really left me begging for more. Its really starting to get really interesting..

 

[Paradox-SJ]

The last episode left me speechless with laughter...i KNOW I should have saw that one coming but I didn't...best episode to date IMO.

 

[kstuart]

The last episode left me speechless with laughter...i KNOW I should have saw that one coming but I didn't...best episode to date IMO.

It was written by the creator of Carnivale (Daniel Knauf)

Along with this weekend's episode, the series is definitely getting more substance and more writing - doing a better job of balancing plot and characterization with porn and violence.

They seem to be laying a foundation for the historical events that will inevitably follow. There is more than one historical figure who needs to undergo a change of perspective (I won't spoil those who do not know the details... the Romans were the first people who liked to write about everything going on, so there are more details known than most earlier historical events). They are doing a good job of creating sets that match what we know about Roman buildings and furnishings. I once toured the ruins of a Roman Villa in England and it closely matches Batiatus' villa (the indoor wading pool that everyone who is dying manages to fall into - is an almost exact replica of the one in England).

In terms of acting, John Hannah (Batiatus) is definitely carrying the show as the one character who is multi-dimensional with many different sides to his personality. The writers are clearly using his character to point out the relationship between middle class professionals and upper class management that dates from the earliest large civilizations several thousand years ago and still continue today... perhaps in the lives of the writers ?

 

[mike123abc]

I once toured the ruins of a Roman Villa in England and it closely matches Batiatus' villa (the indoor wading pool that everyone who is dying manages to fall into - is an almost exact replica of the one in England).

That pool sees a lot of action. I wonder how they change out the water so quickly after each death?

 

[ripnbigc]

Definitely my favorite episode to date.