Suggestions for OS

[mike123abc]

Well I decided I need to upgrade my web server. It is a couple years old running Suse 9.3.

I think I am just going to build my own machine, install something on it like Linux (which one?) or maybe BSD or perhaps someone has something better. I will be using a colocation service locally so I will finally have access to the server. This is why I never updated the old one since I do not have access and just too afraid of frying it.

I have about 10 web sites on it now. Not a lot of traffic, I use mysql and apache.

There are so many Linux distributions out there it is so hard to choose. I want something very up to date with a good community to have updates. Suse, Redhat, Gentoo etc come to mind. But, I see this site uses BSD, any thoughts on that? I would think there would be more apps for Linux over BSD, but I could be wrong.

I have used plesk on the current server. I am good with shell, and have done a lot of work with various unix, bsd and linux boxes over the years. It is nice to have automated tools though.

Right now I have a Pentium D system lying around I may use. I will just have generic PC hardware, I do not have a lot of traffic and the web pages are simple (currently running on a Celeron D with 1GB and 160 SATA drive).

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

FreeBSD has been a blessing and a curse for us.

The blessings have been there was a recent exploit that opened up servers running Cpanel (which we are) that gave folks SSH root access if you new the exploit. All flavors of Linux were hit by this one except for FreeBSD.

The problem is a lot of stuff I want to use does not run correctly under FreeBSD, including a number of PHP Cachng softwares I have tried.

I am working on a second server for SatelliteGuys which will run Apache only and I am leaning to having FreeBSD again on it, my only concern is that the raid controller might night have FreeBSD drivers. (I am thinking of going with a RAID 10 setup with 15,000 RPM SAS Drives)

Selecting a OS is hard, each one has something that makes them better then the other.

 

[LER]

I prefer FreeBSD. (I don't like Linux's pick this libc, that kernel, etc, FreeBSD engineers kernel and userland as well as the 17000+ ports together).

That said, part of the PHP caching issue may be because of cPanel. The normal FreeBSD ports process handles them usually, but the cPanel guys don't let some of the upgrades happen

LER

 

[Hall]

I would think there would be more apps for Linux over BSD, but I could be wrong.

It often only requires a re-compile to get an application to run on a different OS variant but the problem is "support", even when it's just user support. If a group of developers or "community" all use Linux, who will test to see if it works properly on FreeBSD or Solaris ? That's why many apps have pre-compiled Linux versions but for anything else, they give you the source code and tell you you're on your own.

 

[mike123abc]

The other question is automated server management tools. I have been using plesk and ended up frying my installation. I used the updater to update plesk and it botched the plesk installation. Well, I decided that was a signal to get a new computer (I had been working around problems with the old linux kernel and I did not feel comfortable updating remotely).

Just a minute ago I went through the laborious process of updating the SSL certificate for the site (it expired yesterday). It took me an hour to find the file (it had an encrypted name), plesk had it stashed away in a non standard location. I had to read through all the apache configuration files until I found the path name to /usr/local/psa/var/certificates/cert-JUxisLs and was able to match it up to the right domain name (I have multiple certificates). Well of course when the next one expires I will know what to look for.

Quite frankly Cpanel and Plesk are fairly expensive for the amount I use them. I could probably get by with just editing the files myself in a standard installation (the problem now is Plesk relocated all the files and changed the names, so find on common extensions did not work). So, I want a distribution that has resonable web site management tools that are free (or low cost like under $50/year). All I use the control panels for is creating the domains, and setting up things like SSL certs. Like I mentioned I can eventually figure it all out but there is too many details, and I have to worry about security implications of changes.

My web sites are not mission critical. The most used one I have is donated to a non profit charity and it is informational, not used in the charity's day to day activities.

 

[LER]

FreeBSD ports system is WONDERFUL.

The configs are easy. I don't use control panels, and plesk sucks(tm).

If I can help, let me know

 

[mike123abc]

Yes I have to agree plesk is slow and has a lot of problems. But, it was free with my rented server.

My new server which I have pieced together from various parts will have a Core2 duo E8400 (45nm 6MB cache 3GHZ SSE4 1333FSB), an intel Q35 (DQ35JO) motherboard selected because it was cheap and had built in video, 4GB of memory, 2U case w/500PSU ( Newegg.com - hec RA251C00F w HEC500TDBTF 1.2 mm Thickness 2U Server Case 2 External 5.25" Drive Bays - Retail ), and DVD+-RWDL SATA.

I have not decided what to do about the disks yet, I have a 150GB raptor and a seagate 250GB ES.2 SATA drive lying around. I was thinking raptor for system and seagate for www, but on the current server I have only used 10GB... Linux is so small compared to windows. So, I think I will put everything on the raptor since it is fast and try to automate backups to the seagate.

The local hosting company here will let me put it in their rack for $100/month. That is $30/month higher than what I pay now, but it will be local and I can go and play with it during business hours if I need to do something like an OS upgrade. They have an OC-3 connection to quest. Also they do not meter bandwidth (but I never used more than .5 Mbit before).

I will read up on BSD, it has been 20 years since I really worked on it (yes PDP11/70 and Vax BSD in my past). I have been using Suse Linux.

 

[mike123abc]

Looks like BSD 7.0 is coming out in a few weeks, I guess I will delay the new server until it is out. I can install the 6.x and play around with it until then.

 

[John Kotches]

Solaris and zones. You can run each web server in its own zone and have some measure of fault isolation

 

[LER]

FreeBSD has Jails, not as airtight as zones, but same idea. You can use FreeBSD 7-RC now.

(I have a couple of boxes running FreeBSD 7 from recent builds).

LER

 

[IceToad]

I prefer FreeBSD. (I don't like Linux's pick this libc, that kernel, etc, FreeBSD engineers kernel and userland as well as the 17000+ ports together).

That said, part of the PHP caching issue may be because of cPanel. The normal FreeBSD ports process handles them usually, but the cPanel guys don't let some of the upgrades happen

LER

LER, I agree with you on these points. I have admined both Linux and BSD boxes (OpenBSD/FreeBSD/NetBSD) and find that I like FreeBSD quite a bit more than either Linux or the other BSD variants.

I have a lot of issues with user control panels, CPanel in particular. I know from experience that CPanel runs poorly on FreeBSD but does a decent job on Linux.

Taking all my past experiences into consideration, if I were rolling out a new server I would definitely go with FreeBSD. Its userland and kernel are much more tightly integrated and ports ROCKS .

 

[mike123abc]

I think FreeBSD is the one I am going with. I am going to do the RC one for testing then when the release is official, I will install that before going live with the new server.

 

[John Kotches]

FreeBSD has Jails, not as airtight as zones, but same idea. You can use FreeBSD 7-RC now.

(I have a couple of boxes running FreeBSD 7 from recent builds).

LER

We'll have to agree to disagree...

And don't get me started with ZFS or DTrace

Cheers,

 

[John Kotches]

FreeBSD has Jails, not as airtight as zones, but same idea. You can use FreeBSD 7-RC now.

(I have a couple of boxes running FreeBSD 7 from recent builds).

LER

RC != using for production IMO. Production should be GA code.

Eventually I'll share my real thoughts on that though

 

[mike123abc]

Well got freeBSD 7.0 RC2 up and running last night. I will play around with it a while. I am waiting on the final 7.0 to come out before I go too far.