Terrible luck with actuators

[iBoston]

I have a month old Venture Maxi Ball and today when moving dish, i got ASC1 error that the dish might be blocked. I checked the wires behind the ASC1, and I checked the wires on the Motor. I then un screwed them and then re-screwed them on just to verify there wasn't a hiccup somewhere... NOTHING. The dish moves fine. It nudges east or west but the pulses aren't making it to the ASC1??

How can i test trouble shoot where the problem is coming from.
Its gotta be :

1. Wire issue
2. ASC1 issue
3. Reed Sensor Issue

 

[Titanium]

Unlikely that a new actuator is defective, but anything is possible. If the previous actuator was working with the distribution wiring and the ASC1 and nothing else has changed, I would focus on the new actuator. Did you first test the new actuator inside at the controller?

Is the actuator already mounted on the dish? If so, probably easiest to first test the actuator without the power/ sensor wires and ASC1. Disconnect the wires at the actuator and use a 12volt battery to power the motor. Check the reed switch with an ohm meter to observe the contacts open/close cycling as the motor moves. If the switch is cycling, then check the sensor wires for continuity by twisting the S1/S2 wires together and use the ohm meter to check for open or closed circuit. If the meter indicates a closed (short) circuit, its time to move indoors to continue to check the wiring. If it is easy to bring the ASC1 out to the dish, you might try connecting the M1/M2 and S1/S2 with short jumpers to test operation without the distribution wiring.

If everything tests ok to this point, connect the M1/M2 and S1/S2 distribution wires to the actuator. Now go indoors and connect the 12v battery to the M1/M2 wires. While the dish is moving, use the ohm meter to check the S1/S2 wires for switch open/close cycles. If the motor is moving and the meter indicates open/close cycles, connect the M1/M2 and S1/S2 wires to the ASC1 and test movement.

 

[iBoston]

Unlikely that a new actuator is defective, but anything is possible. If the previous actuator was working with the distribution wiring and the ASC1 and nothing else has changed, I would focus on the new actuator. Did you first test the new actuator inside at the controller?

Is the actuator already mounted on the dish? If so, probably easiest to first test the actuator without the power/ sensor wires and ASC1. Disconnect the wires at the actuator and use a 12volt battery to power the motor. Check the reed switch with an ohm meter to observe the contacts open/close cycling as the motor moves. If the switch is cycling, then check the sensor wires for continuity by twisting the S1/S2 wires together and use the ohm meter to check for open or closed circuit. If the meter indicates a closed (short) circuit, its time to move indoors to continue to check the wiring. If it is easy to bring the ASC1 out to the dish, you might try connecting the M1/M2 and S1/S2 with short jumpers to test operation without the distribution wiring.

If everything tests ok to this point, connect the M1/M2 and S1/S2 distribution wires to the actuator. Now go indoors and connect the 12v battery to the M1/M2 wires. While the dish is moving, use the ohm meter to check the S1/S2 wires for switch open/close cycles. If the motor is moving and the meter indicates open/close cycles, connect the M1/M2 and S1/S2 wires to the ASC1 and test movement.

Well, i guess I am going to have to drag some equipment outside. Just to make sure it isn't the wire, however, i hooked up an OHM meter here inside the house, and the needle never goes to zero. it pulses all the way too the top, and then back down to 1/4. Ofcourse, I'm only getting about one pulse, because i hit the east west, and then have to hit the okay button on the ASC1 to move again. I then swapped out my ASC1 for my other ASC1 and it is doing the exact same thing.

I am going to move the ASC1 outside and bypass the mover wires and see if that solves the problem. If not, it has to be the REED sensor ( I would think)

 

[Titanium]

Easy enough to test the reed switch without hauling a lot of gear outside. Remove the switch from the actuator, connect an ohm meter to the leads and trigger the switch cycles with a magnet.

 

[iBoston]

Well, the thing is, it is pulsing... But, the ASC1's (both of them) don't seem to like the way its pulsing..

 

[KE4EST]

I would love to see a scope on that sensor line.

 

[Titanium]

Agree with KE4EST. A scope would provide an easier diagnosis.

A reed switch is an open/close cycle. Black and white with no shades of gray... LOL! Might have a distribution wiring issue. Water ingress or ??? Is there impedance/resistance on the S1/S2 or stray voltage.

Put a voltage tester inline with the S1/S2. What are the open and closed voltages?

Do the S1/S2 wires have shield? If so, is it connected to ground on the ASC1? At the actuator? Both at the ASC1 and the actuator?

With all wires disconnected from the ASC1, are there any voltage readings present when testing between any these wire or shields and the electrical outlet ground?

 

[iBoston]

GOT IT. Yes, the S1/S2 are shielded and grounded at the ASC1. The shielded wires is two pair. When i said it was pulsing but only dropping the needle to 1/4, showed there was resistance in the line. Being the shielded wires was two pair, i swapped pairs and the resistance went to 0. Hooked everything back up and WALA!



The even better thing about it, if you keep up with me at all, you know i have been having issues with the actuator not tracking and getting off little by little. The problem seemed to still occur after i welded the clamp onto the actuator. So, i bet THIS was the problem. I'm wondering what the issue is, i hope its not water penetration. I wouldn't think so, as it is in PVC pipe, and i spray foam insulated the inside ends of the pipe, and after it dried, I then siliconed it.

Man, I am SOO happy that was a semi quick fix.

I also then disconnected the s1/s2 wires and nudged it to where the dish was supposed to be for the position the actuator was on, and then re-connected s1/s2 wires so that I'm on track!


Ps, I love how people come to the rescue on here.. Thank you for your posts!!! It helps focus my mind on the things needing to be done!! Very much appreciated!!

 

[gpflepsen]

What kind of wire are you using for pulse counts? Twisted pair with a shield, like a cat5 or cat6 wire?

Get off your Apps and drive...

 

[Titanium]

Great troubleshooting and good that it was such a simple fix! Unusual that one of the wires failed. Hope that you don't have a mole snacking on the cable run.

Another way to resync the counts is to park the dish on the correct 0000 reference aiming and perform a "Position Reset" to resync 0000 to this position. For example: I have my system's 0000 reference position set on the Eastern mechanical limit switch position. When I service the dish and disconnect the controller, I simply drive the actuator East until it stops on the East mechanical stop, then perform a "Position Reset" on the ASC1 to set 0000 at this point. All saved satellites will once again be in the correct positions.

 

[iBoston]

Actually, it is for aircraft 4 wire shielded twisted. It is stranded wire, and it is 16 gauge.

aircraft wire cable M27500-B16WK4G24 16-4 shield 6145-01-506-2995 100 ft teflon

 

[Titanium]

Any middle of the run splices that could have corrosion?

 

[iBoston]

Any middle of the run splices that could have corrosion?

Absolutely not.. I would buy a whole new cable before doing that...

 

[FaT Air]

Just shooting out what I think may be 'probable causes'.
Got moles or mice? Whoops. ya got it in PVC Glue that all together? If not maybe water in it. Or the PVC got crushed somewhere.

 

[iBoston]

Yea, all the pieces were glued together. I will look under the deck where it comes out of the PVC pipe and enters the house. I know we have Rabbits, and I've seen rabbits under the deck, so ill eye the cable and see if i see anything.

 

[bigg t]

I was going to mention the resync but Brian beat me to it. This is one instance where it would have been a great help; and probably easier too. Anyhow glad that you are back in business.

 

[iBoston]

Darnit. That didn't solve my ongoing issue.. I'm off by a bunch of ticks again. I went down to 22w today, and then when i came back up, I had to nudge the dish further west by 5 or so ticks. Does single tick (clicking east west buttons) on ASC1 throw of the dish??? I was creeping it back and forth when i was discovering the new Birds..

 

[Titanium]

Another member reported that repeated front panel East/West button stepping induced a position error on his system. The ASC1 coding sets the count circuit open before the motor power is applied and remains open after the motor power is ended. We repeatedly tested, but were unable to duplicate across several test systems. Maybe this issue can be replicated on your system? If so, it would be a tremendous assistance to help identify if a problem exists on your set-up.

Do me a favor and run the dish between preprogrammed satellites to preprogrammed satellites using either the ASC1 satellite list selection or via a connected receiver. Are the counts still in sync? Now drive the dish between the satellite position counts using the East or West front panel buttons. Are the satellite positions still in sync? If so, repeat the motor runs with the East/West buttons using multiple stops or repeat step modes. Are the satellite positions still in sync? Thanks for your input!

 

[KE4EST]

Same here. I do a lot of bumping East and West and I mean A LOT. I have yet to have an out of sync issue from the ASC1.

Now I have had out of sync issues.
Every time it was something on the dish that was not quite secure.
Especially when I drove it to the limits. If something was not good and tight, the weight and extra force exerted would pull it out just a bit.
Sometimes you have to get someone to move the dish for you or take your positioner out to the dish to SEE it. Then you do a facepalm and all is well.
If you are having trouble finding what is going out of alignment. Make little marks on everything! Dish mount to pole, elevation, declination, actuator mount, everything.
Then run the dish all the way East then all the way West a couple of times and go check your marks.

 

[iBoston]

Here is the first test. I went from 127 to 43 back to 127, and then repeated to 43 and back to 127 one additional time. The signal quality remained the same at each of the satellite transponder locks.

Because, I knew everything was off (by more than 10 ticks) west of that, i then used the east/west buttons on the ASC1 remote and the Diseqc Commands through the STB to do the (bigger east/west jumps) . to re-obtain 131,133,135 and 139. I then jumped to 43w and transponder lock was at exact same quality. I then jumped all the way back to 139w and signal lock at same quality.

okay (walking over to ASC1) Okay, now with the front panel, I am programming in everything between 105w and 91w because that was all previously off. I then jumped down to 43w. No signal lock. I had to nudge the dish West 4 ticks to get it back to the same signal quality. And same with 55w and 58w as i moved back up the arc. I then went back to the other side at 139, had to nudge 4 ticks to west. Then as one last final jumped to 43 (all good) and back to 139 (all good).

So, sometime when adding (105w-91w) i went off by 4 ticks. Okay, I will stay away from the front panel for a time being and see if it stays in sync. Titanium, i wouldn't call this conclusive. Although this particular situation seemed to re-produce the error count via the front panel, let me sit on this a few more days to see if it gets off by NOT using the front panel.