The Numbers are in

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tvropro

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Mar 9, 2007
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I heard NPS had around 20k last year. SRL picked up approx 50% so far and they had 800 on H2H. That's not adding in the SRL 4d subs they had last year so the numbers could be higher. The bottom line its a good start It shows people still love their buds and want c band programming. If we could get some investors to invest and some good ad campaigns going we could get quite a bit more and upgrades done I'm sure. People are tired of the cable man dictating.
 

Davage

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Jul 26, 2005
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I'm not quite following the Math.

10800 subs.. 800 were existing H2H subs, 10k were converted from NPS to SRL subs. What about the existing SRL/Skyvision 4DTV subs? It doesn't seem like they were added into the equation here..

If all we've got left is 10800 people using H2H, I think that the service as it is currently being offered to C-Band is doomed.
 

sergei

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 29, 2007
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iowa
My question is how this is being counted...is it by programming subscriptions or by the receivers serial numbers?
 

dhj

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Dec 6, 2010
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Monroe Valley Pennsylvania
I too hope that adding 10,000 to the 800 410's gives them a boost. Also curious how many are SRL/Sky converts like me. There's a lot of unused dishes around, many folks don't know programming is still there. Some gave up due to non-existant service for C band, etc. I'm a happy camper with C band since early 1980's and want to stay that way. Yes I miss a few channels and yes I watch too much anyhow and need to get exercise. This laptop doesn't help that either.
 

Scott Greczkowski

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Sep 7, 2003
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Did they add 10,000 to the 800 or add 800 to the 10,000. I am hearing its the second one so I am a little confused.
 

Anony55

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 10, 2010
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I found this article from 2004 about backyard C band dish owners that is very interesting:

washingtonpost.com: Channels a la Carte

I found this part of the article interesting...

Judith A. McHale, president of Discovery Communications Inc., home to popular cable channels such as Animal Planet, said an economic model worked up by Discovery's research division estimated that, under an a la carte system, the average customer would pay $187.50 per month for 30 channels.

Notice that she said "average customer". ROTFL!!! Average of what? ...the average of her last 3 remaining customers?!? And she was talking in 2004 dollars!!

That's just classic "do as I say or else" BS. There's no way that would happen... and I mean no way. The market simply wouldn't bear it and the channels would have to adjust to the reality they had to operate in.

If congress forced a la cart (and I'm not necessarily saying they should), things would definitely change. There would no doubt be unintended consequences. Some things we would like, and some we wouldn't.

But there's just no freakin' way that when the dust settled that the average customer's bill would be the equivalent of $187.50 in 2004 money. It's TV, not gas or food.

Cheers
 

tvropro

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Did they add 10,000 to the 800 or add 800 to the 10,000. I am hearing its the second one so I am a little confused.

They had 800 on H2H originally they added at least 10k 4DTV subs that were part of NPS. I think SRL had something like 3 to 5k subs on 4DTV so numbers now are likely well over the estimate of 10,800 possibly somewhere around 14k total I would guess.
 

trinidex

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Jul 16, 2004
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So there were only 800 H2H 410 subs before the 4DTV debacle? WOW! I'm quite shocked by that, seems low to me.

I'm very pleased then, that 10k subs have been added and counted as well as, hopefully, the 3k-5k 4DTV subs that SRL had before.

14k sounds like a good number to me given those stats.

Yes, it is a drop in the ocean compared to the "big" players, but it is encouraging, I hope the providers agree!
 

johnnynobody

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Aug 2, 2009
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10,800 H2H subscribers is a good start, but a far cry from the big boys below:

There could have been a LOT more 4D subscribers if Motorola had done better marketing and if the services were provided on Ku instead of C-band. Getting the cost of the 4D down would have been a big help also. Plus other factors such as programming costs, DVR availability and cost, etc. Having services on Ku would be far more palatable to the general public than trying to get them to put a 12 foot dish in their back yard. But, who would install the system for them? Most people just want a "plug and play" system.

Also, some people claim no "rain-fade" loss of service on the Ku pizza dishes while my friends, co-workers and neighbors, that have DN or DTV, have told me that they have lost service due to rain fade. Regardless, if all these pizza dish owners are willing to accept rain-fade problems then why can't 4D subscribers accept some? And, if the cable outfits are having Ku rain fade issues then we'll probably never see masters provided on Ku even though their customers lost the signal long before they did. Considering the size of Ku antennas used by cable/commercial outfits I would imagine that rain fade wouldn't be a significant issue. So, I'm wondering what the "real story" (facts) are?

It's all do-able to keep the 4D viable but it'll take a bit of effort (and money) to make it happen. Whatever happens, I'm sure we'll find a new source for TV if the 4D finally dies.
 

johnnynobody

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Well, we need more than number of subscribers to keep this going. If each subscriber is just subbing to 1 or 2 channels that ain't gonna justify keeping things going.
 

tvropro

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Also, some people claim no "rain-fade" loss of service on the Ku pizza dishes while my friends, co-workers and neighbors, that have DN or DTV, have told me that they have lost service due to rain fade.

All Ku has rain fade problems, even tv stations with 15 foot or larger antenna's. It is caused by moisture causing scatter of the signal. Everything above 10 Ghz is effected. If someone on pizza says they never got rain fade they must live in the desert or lieing or don't know what it is.

From my experience when a moisture ridden cloud passes between your dish and satellite angle, it's going down. C band being on 3.7~ 4.2 Ghz don't have any ill effects. C band Rocks!
 

johnnynobody

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Well, I was trying to make a point that if the rain fade is a problem for the 1 meter dishes then what difference does it make if the headends get their stuff off of C or Ku? It all comes back to the question of why can't they uplink the masters on Ku? Even if the headends get the signal on C, their subscribers aren't getting the signal on their Ku receivers. So, I'm back to the question of why don't they uplink the masters on Ku? Their subscribers lose the signal before the headends do when you consider that headends may be using a 6 meter or larger dish. I'm trying to figure out how to get more people to go to 4DTV and one of the ways is to receive the signals on a 1 meter dish. From all the arguments I've heard against Ku, I don't see a significant problem with it when there are tens of millions of DTV+DN subscribers that deal with rain fading. Even a desert sometimes gets heavy enough rains to kill the Ku signals. Maybe I'm not explaining my point of view very well.
 

Dishman Dan

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Jun 22, 2008
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Speaking of numbers...


Do the pizza numbers include commercial accounts too or just residential? :confused:


Sometimes their customer count is a lot higher in their advertisements.


Sorry for the pizza on the floor! :facepalm
 
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trinidex

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Jul 16, 2004
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tvropro said:
All Ku has rain fade problems, even tv stations with 15 foot or larger antenna's. It is caused by moisture causing scatter of the signal. Everything above 10 Ghz is effected. If someone on pizza says they never got rain fade they must live in the desert or lieing or don't know what it is.

From my experience when a moisture ridden cloud passes between your dish and satellite angle, it's going down. C band being on 3.7~ 4.2 Ghz don't have any ill effects. C band Rocks!

They probably think it means the picture fades in & out.....Searching for signal is something else entirely!!!
 

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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I assume it includes all accounts

on D*'s investor page it shows a line that says "Cumulative Subscribers"
 

highskies

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 15, 2010
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Texarkana
Also, some people claim no "rain-fade" loss of service on the Ku pizza dishes while my friends, co-workers and neighbors, that have DN or DTV, have told me that they have lost service due to rain fade. Regardless,


I have had pizza before. Trust me, rain fade was a big problem. I have a 31" KU offset dish right now that I use for fta. It tracks the ark rather well. But when it come a downpour, it's not uncommon to lose the signal, or for it to start tiling real bad, even on the stronger sats. I also used to have KU installed on my BUD when HITS X4 was KU. Same problem there as well. These people who claim rain fade is not an issue with the pizzas, well unfortunately, I'm just not inclined to believe it. Doesn't mean it's not true, it just means from my own experiences..no rain fade with pizza..that does not compute. As far as C-band..never a problem. I have experienced pretty much the same things tvropro was saying about the lightning strikes. They would sometimes effect C-band for a split second, but never to the point where things were unwatchable.
 

highskies

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 15, 2010
398
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If each subscriber is just subbing to 1 or 2 channels that ain't gonna justify keeping things going.


With the high cost of just one channel these days, I don't see why not. Back in the analog subbing days, one could get 10 or 15 analogs feeds for the price that one costs today. If the 10,000 est subs were only buying 2 chs a piece, such would be around 10 bucks or so, that comes to a hundred grand a month. Now how much of that do you think the programmers themselves get? Maybe a fourth or less? If so, that leaves 75 grand a month for somebody. Of course there's overhead and taxes, and all that stuff, but remember, this is only based on if all the subs were only buying 2 chs a piece. Just think if a good majority of those subs were spending 40 bucks plus a month. All I know, it almost sounds like someone is making some easy money here. And if they want to continue making easy money, then they better get HITS to open some more feeds, so that some like me can sub as well. Right now I'm not subbing, mainly because I see very little of interest with the current selection. But please don't give me that line..well if you would sub, it would help get our numbers add up, etc. I've been all thru that before. I was subbing to the BUD as far back as 1995 until just recently. At one time my programming was well over a hundred bucks a month. Didn't change a thing. Mot still closed down anyway. A new receiver was never built, so on and so on. No this time around I'm going to play it different. I think I'll wait till a better selection is offered. If that doesn't happen, at least I'm not out anything, nor did I miss anything I couldn't do without.
 
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