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Upper C-Band 4.5 to 4.8 GHz

Discussion in 'C-BAND Satellite Discussion' started by Brct203, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Brct203

    Brct203 Topic Starter SatelliteGuys Pro

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    I was wondering what LNB/LNBFs were available that cover that range of frequency... I'm pretty sure there's a Norsat LNB, at Norsat price, which makes it a bit hard to justify the expense considering that there's not much on those frequencies.

    Is anyone aware of a more affordable option?

    Tek2000 has an LNBF that has ambiguous description, that made me think that it would cover that band, but after looking it up from other resellers, it's seems it's just a stacked LNBF that uses a 5750 LO to cever the second polarity

    Has anyone considered modifying an existing regular C-Band LNB to change the LO to 5750 MHz? I'm guessing that would be difficult without proper measuring equipment, but maybe not impossible?
     
  2. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
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    Developed a 3.7 - 4.8GHz PLL model several years ago that is currently under license by a satellite corp. The license will expire in 2020 and may manufacture under Titanium Satellite brand if the market expands.

    At this time, very few services have footprint in the US or Canada using this frequency range. The South American footprints cover the southern regions of the US. Had a useable, but with very low SNR in Northern California.

    The feed and probes for a standard LNBF provided poor performance in the higher range. While the stubs can be shortened for the higher frequency, the larger feedhorn cavity was problematic and cross pol was quite poor.

    There are several satellite equipment resellers in South America with inexpensive LNBF options.

    BTW... the Anhui Bowei 4500 - 4800 MHz LNBF model is not only cheap, but also features absolute crap performance. Yes, this is the same factory that cloned our PLL LNBF and now directly sells on Ebay.
     
    #2 Titanium, Apr 20, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
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  3. primestar31

    primestar31 SatelliteGuys Master

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  4. martin-f

    martin-f SatelliteGuys Family

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    This would probably be your cheapest option depending on shipping cost.
    Code:
    https://www.eshopsatelite.com.br/lnbf/572-lnbf-ap30-pll-banda-c-monoponto-45-48-ghz-brasilsat.html
     
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  5. martin-f

    martin-f SatelliteGuys Family

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    Use google translate :)
    Code:
    http://www.portalbsd.com.br/forumbsd/viewtopic.php?t=11703
     
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  6. Brct203

    Brct203 Topic Starter SatelliteGuys Pro

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    nice that's about US$26 before shipping. Of course the shipping cost could be a problem.Thanks!

    PS: Brian, does it look like that Anhui Bowei 4500 - 4800 MHz LNBF that has bad performance?
     
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  7. Brct203

    Brct203 Topic Starter SatelliteGuys Pro

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    very interesting... so the guy took a single-cable (stacked) LNBF that uses 2 LOs (5150 for H and 5750 for V), and removed the 5150 LO and removed the filter, so that the vertical signals (which are using the 5750 LO) are no longer restricted to 3.7-4.2. Definitely a smart idea! Unfortunately I don't have such LNB(F)
     
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  8. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
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    eShop purchases from many distributors, including Titanium Satellite. :)

    Impossible to tell by looking at the housing where this model originated. For that price, it would be worth trying!
     
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  9. Brct203

    Brct203 Topic Starter SatelliteGuys Pro

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    I looked again at the coverage maps on Satbeams.com and on Hispasat.com...
    Looks like I'm way out of coverage for Amazonas 2 (but i'm able to receive the regular C-Band of Amazonas 3, not very strongly though)
    SES6 @40.5W might be a possibility but its only ITC transponder in the 4.5-4.8 range is 8PSK 5/6, so definitely would need a strong signal. Probably not realistic.
    Hispasat 30W6 also uses that range, but I have not seen any report of any TV signal on that bird
    That leaves Eutelsat 65W, which should have a fairly decent signal here, about 39 dBW and easier signals
     
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  10. lost_mesa

    lost_mesa SatelliteGuys Pro

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    In the 4.5 to 4.8 GHz range, Eutelsat 65W is the strongest satellite for me here in New Mexico. It comes in very well on my 10ft dish. There are about 8 or 9 channels there. Lyngsat is pretty much correct.

    Amazonas 2 at 61W is mostly data but there is one video channel, WooHoo HD at 4558 V 3332.

    I've always had trouble locking the channels on SES6 at 40.5W. I think it is more of an issue with getting good circular performance out of my feed, rather than the satellite. Footprint maps show it is about equal to Eutelsat 65W here. Looking at it with a spectrum analyzer, it look like the video muxes at 4521 R 30000 and 4641 L 30000 are there, along with a data mux at 4770 L 50000. I don't see anything else.

    I also have never seen any reports of any type of C band signal from Hispasat 30W-6. My C band dishes won't go that low, the elevation is about 2.3 degrees here. But if something shows up, I might try modifying one to get that low. I have a fixed 1.2 meter dish for the Ku side of Hispasat. It works well, but I think C band could be a lot more problematic.
     
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  11. MikeI

    MikeI SatelliteGuys Pro

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    Woohoo is on 43w 3836 H 3600. I will have to check 40w and see of its there. It's one of the few signals I van get on 7.5' dish. 10' has no problems. Im Going to have to get a lnb to try this frequency range. Interesting topic.
    I can get too 34.5w c and 53w ku here in NM.. Too many neighbors trees to get 30w. I would have to raise the dish way up or on the roof. The dish was planned for 43w anything east is a bonus.

    Sent from my VS995 using the SatelliteGuys app!
     
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  12. MikeI

    MikeI SatelliteGuys Pro

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    I think woohoo is on another satellite in HD. Maybe it's 40.5w. It's SD on 43w

    Sent from my VS995 using the SatelliteGuys app!
     
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  13. mikekohl

    mikekohl Prehistoric Satellite Guru
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    The owners of ADL Feedhorn (vikingsatcom.com) market feedhorns as well as LNBs specifically for the 4.5 GHz region described. Maybe not the cheapest game in town, but if you want a commercial product, it is available.
     
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  14. lost_mesa

    lost_mesa SatelliteGuys Pro

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    Just to clarify one thing, I get excellent reception from SES6 at 40.5W in the 3.6 to 4.2 GHz range with a Titanium LNBF. It is in the 4.5 to 4.8 GHz band with a Chaparral Superfeed and dielectric slab that the performance isn't as good as I would like. Maybe just need to play around with the dielectric slab some more. Hoping for a good 4.5 to 4.8 GHz LNBF from Titanium some day.
     
  15. danristheman

    danristheman SatelliteGuys Pro

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    Hey Brian or Mike Kohl. Can satellite companies switch to frequency if 5g takes over 3.7 to 4.2 mhz?
     
  16. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
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    4500 -4800MHz range is available if the satellite was constructed with the frequency capability and its use is licensed and approved.
     
  17. danristheman

    danristheman SatelliteGuys Pro

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    Instead of going after the lower frequencies this would be a better idea for them to go after.
     
  18. Brct203

    Brct203 Topic Starter SatelliteGuys Pro

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    I was thinking the same, but then I'm also thinking that none of the satellite services currently on 4.5-4.8 GHz are domestic US/Canada, but rather about Latin America. Maybe that part of the spectrum is already allocated to something else here?
     
  19. moonbase

    moonbase Active SatelliteGuys Member

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    I purchased a few of the Chinese extended C Band LNB's and found that they performed reasonably well. Not only do they perform OK in their specified 4.5 - 4.8 GHz range but they also perform reasonably well for the upper part of the normal C Band range. I have attached two small tables below that summarise the results of my tests with a cheap Chinese extended C Band LNB in comparison with a Titanium C1-WPLL LNBF. I have also attached pictures of the test feed arrangements.

    Both the Titanium LNBF and the cheap Chinese LNB were used in conjunction with a polariser barrel thereby removing the need for a dielectric plate in the feed arrangement. The signal level measurements were taken over a period of two days so there may have been periodic signal level flutuations depending on the time of day/night.

    My findings were that the cheap Chinese extended C Band LNB was able to detect signals from 3.98 GHz all the way up into the extended C Band range. The LNB also detected signals below 3.98 Ghz but these started to drop off in signal level quite a bit for frequencies below 3.98 GHz



    40.5W Extended C Band.jpg

    40.5W Extended C Band (R).jpg

    Titanium-Polariser Tube (01).jpg

    ExtC - Polariser Tube (01).jpg
     
    #19 moonbase, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
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  20. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
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    Thank you for posting your testing results.

    This test is using a fixed polarity Extended Band LNB with feedhorn adapter, not the Anhui Bowei LNBF, which I referenced in the post.

    My post was not a general statement about Chinese LNBs or LNBFs, but rather it is a warning about a specific product.

    Typically, I would expect a single polarity LNB to have better performance over a LNBF. This is why many hobbyists like myself prefer feedhorns with servo polarity / skew setting for the optimization that it provides.

    You might observe the cross polarity attenuation of the test feed horn. Looks like there might be some x-pol interaction that may affect reception on opposing polarities.

    For a future test, it might be interesting to compare a C1-PLL instead of a wideband C1W-PLL. While our filtering will attenuate frequencies above 4.2GHz, the C1-PLL is tuned for 3.7- 4.2GHz band and not balanced for the entire 3.4 - 4.2GHz range like a wideband LNBF.
     
    #20 Titanium, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019

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