Voom may never have a PVR

slick1ru2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Mar 29, 2004
626
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The South
Legislation is being introduced to Congress that would reverse the "betamax" ruling that allows consumers to own dvd recorders, TiVos, VHS recorders, iPods, etc. that can record movies and music they own. Brought to you by the legislators payed off by the Music and Motion Pictures Industries.

http://www.savebetamax.org/
 
Hollywood is stupid, no one is going to give up their Tivos, and without VHS back in the 80s, there would be no Blockbusters, no billion dollar movie SALE industry. The people who pirate movies are the tiny minority.

I don't think Congress in their right mind would all agree to BAN recording equipment.
 
Dvlos, you give congress way too much credit. They are trying to get a bill passed that would do just that!! It would essentially reverse the betamax decision and has the potential to make almost any device capable of being used for copyright infringement illegal, right down to xerox machines and computers.
 
This initiative isn't coming from congress but RIAA and the MPAA, they can start the ball rolling and present this bill, it still has to go through congress, AND survive an appeal to the Supreme Court.. Tivo and so many electronic production companies would take a major dive, and it will not make Hollywood any more money than they already make.
 
It's a bill introduced by Senator Orin Hatch. If you want to inform yourself and write a letter to your lawmakers, head on over here:

http://www.nomorestars.com/B1021933048/C1958930352/E1091291387/

This link contains a brief summary and opinion piece, but has links to the actual bill, and links to the electronic frontier foundation's page where you can take action by sending a form letter to congress members (the eff page doesn't render properly in OmniWeb on Mac OS X. Use Safari, or Camino to see it properly).

In short, this "Induce" act, will allow people to sue anyone who induce's another to commit copyright violations by providing them with enabling technology. I believe it's intent is to fight peer to peer networks like the former Napster, and Limewire, and such. But it is too vague to do just that. It can be interpreted much more broadly.

Because of our fear of Terrorism, unscrupulous members of congress are using the opportunity to write vague laws to give extreme power to govern our lives, and protect big business interests. The Patriot Act, the DMCA, the Induce bill, and so on, are all examples of this.

Artists and creative people deserve to be paid for their creative efforts, but vague over-powerful laws are not the means to that end. Let's encourage lawmakers to make laws that are specific enough to do good for the people that provide us content, while not crippling our efforts to enjoy the material by making iPods and Tivo's and other such devices, illegal.
 
The entertainment industry sucks too, I am tired of seeing no talent jackasses end up on MTV cribs because their catchy tune is no. 1 on TRL, then you never hear from them again. I think if this law does pass everyone should boycott movies and music altogether!
 
Dvlos and Scotty are both correct. The bill was introduced by Orin Hatch, but Hatch is the senate mouthpiece for the riaa and mpaa and is firmly in their pockets. It was basically engineered by the **AA's and Orin Hatch passed it onto the senate. As has become glaringly obvious, the govt. as it exists now, is no longer designed to represent the people, but rather to protect the interests of large corporations, at the expense of the people.

Sorry for the political opinion on this non-political forum, but this crap really pisses me off.

eff.org, savebetamax.org, and downhillbattle.org are some great sites to find out more about this BS.
 
Section 8 of the Constitution reads:
"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited
Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"

Note "limited" Why would it be against the law to have devices that reproduce legal material.

Whats their slogan
"People don't record illegally, machines do!"
 
QUOTE: Whats their slogan
"People don't record illegally, machines do!"

man, I'm still laughing...that was a good one!!
 
They can have my TiVo when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Either way, this initative will never pass so there is nothing to worry about. John McCain will whoop Hatch's ass til he cries out like a B*&^h with a skinned knee!
 
My theory.....
Voom is the REAL driving force behind this bill. If DVRs are made illegal then the playing field will be levelled once again. Voom can stop trying to fool folks into thinking that a DVR is forthcoming and blame the U.S. Gov't.
 
txcruiser said:
My theory.....
Voom is the REAL driving force behind this bill. If DVRs are made illegal then the playing field will be levelled once again. Voom can stop trying to fool folks into thinking that a DVR is forthcoming and blame the U.S. Gov't.
That is a silly theory...it sure does give the folks at Voom a lot of credit. Maybe that is why they keep losing money :)
 
txcruiser said:
My theory.....
Voom is the REAL driving force behind this bill. If DVRs are made illegal then the playing field will be levelled once again. Voom can stop trying to fool folks into thinking that a DVR is forthcoming and blame the U.S. Gov't.


I'm hoping that's a joke!! It has to be!!! lmao...if this bill passes, not only will DVR's be illegal but so will vcr's, xerox machines, scanners, cd/dvd burners, and maybe even computers.
 
This bill will never pass, while they claim it's for P2P they purposely left the bill broad and open to go after people who sell movies illegally and music illegally bootlegged off the street. Here's the thing I love movies therefore I either buy the DVD, go to the movies, or have premium channels at home. I have a budget so I keep my entertainment within that.

If they make TiVo's illegal, ok well you're putting countless companies out of business, but it's not going to force people to buy more CDs and DVDs, and watch more movies, considering the great number of people that would be pissed off at the MPAA and RIAA. This bill will be rejected, but it's not over, I'm sure they will fire back with a more refined law. Secretly MPAA would love to kill TiVo and DVRs and force people to buy DVDs of their favorite movies, they are extremely narrow minded in this aspect. I for one have toned down my DVD rentals and purchases, mainly because HD looks so much better, but when HDDVD or Bluray hits the scene, I'll most likely go after a player and get movies in HD format (can it be that in 10 years I'm going to sell off most of my current DVD library and get them in HD-DVD?)
 
I really think you give our lawmakers way too much credit. Who would have ever thought other bills like the DMCA would have passed? If the **AA'a put enough money behind it and buy enough politicians (Hatch and his minions), believe me, it will pass. Our lawmakers are way past making laws that actually benefit the common man. They are now far more interested in protecting corporations like the **AA's, fair use and the like be damned!!!

As for technology laws in general, the senate and congress are so incredibly uninformed and have such an utter lack of understanding of the technological concepts behind these bills that they should not even be allowed to pass technology laws at this point if you ask me.
 
Well get ready for Orin Hatch to be your next President. If Bush wins in Nov. then Hatch will be running in 2008. And if Bush wins, then so will Hatch.
 
Latest on Induce Act. Tech companies are pushing for public hearings.

http://wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,64997,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_4

Tech Groups Want Induce Hearings

Over 40 technology companies and consumer rights advocates sent a letter to Sens. Orrin Hatch and Patrick Leahy on Friday urging them to hold public hearings on the Induce Act, in hopes that Congress won't act hastily in passing a law that would have huge effects on the tech industries.

As written initially, the legislation (SB2560) sponsored by the two senators would hold technology companies liable for manufacturing products that encourage people to infringe copyright. The Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing on the bill in July and many of the witnesses called to testify harshly criticized the proposal.

Today's the Day. In response, the committee asked the U.S. Copyright Office to develop alternative language for the bill. Witnesses from the Consumer Electronics Association, the Business Software Alliance and the NetCoalition, among others, were also called on to offer suggestions.

It is the Copyright Office's revisions -- which call for holding companies liable that rely on copyright infringement to make a profit -- that are so worrisome to the technology organizations.

"The Copyright Office has given us a new approach but it hasn't really been publicly examined," said Mike Godwin, legal director of Public Knowledge, one of the groups that signed the letter. "I think that if everybody has a chance to debate this publicly I think you'd see that there are a lot of misgivings and criticism about this bill."

A Public Knowledge rep said the committee could "mark up" some form of the bill as early as next Tuesday, where it would go to the full committee and then the Senate floor for a vote.

The area of secondary liability for copyright infringement -- where a person or company is charged with profiting or contributing to or having control over the wrongdoing -- is extremely complicated and there are a lot of divergent thoughts on how to deal with it, said Markham Erickson, general counsel of NetCoalition. He said the committee should not rush to push something through for political purposes.

The groups believe the copyright recommendations would "create an unprecedented new form of liability of uncertain, but potentially unlimited, reach." They argue that the committee must hold more hearings to consider all proposals -- there have been at least seven suggested, according to one estimate -- put forth by CEA, NetCoalition and others.

"Before any approach becomes law, it should, at minimum, be subjected to careful scrutiny in a public hearing at which novel elements in these approaches can be compared, and discussed to their full implications," the letter reads. "The process thus far has been constructive, but has not resulted in either the consensus of the confidence in a legislative framework that ought to underlie a major and consequential revision to the Copyright Act."

The letter is signed by Intel, Google, Sun Microsystems, Yahoo, EarthLink, Verizon, the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE-USA) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation, among others.

Representatives of Sens. Hatch (R-Utah) and Leahy (D-Vermont) couldn't immediately be reached for comment.

"It's going to be unclear for innovators whether they are going to be liable legally for particular products," Godwin said. "It doesn't matter what you intended -- you might be liable anyway and I think that's very scary."

The letter also charges that the proposed changes would undermine the Supreme Court's 1984 Betamax decision, which ruled that devices with "substantial non-infringing uses" are legal. Technology companies say this landmark case created an environment for innovation to flourish for 20 years, and now the ruling is "under unrelenting attack." Betamax would provide no defense against the Copyright Office's form of liability, the letter says.

Other objections to the Induce Act have been raised by Downhill Battle, a music activism group. This week, the group coordinated a massive call-in to congressional representatives to protest the Induce Act and register their support for the Betamax decision. The group said that over 5,000 people signed up to call.

"This proposal is not fully baked," Godwin said.
 
hey i just thought of something. you notice how E* wont let you buy certain dvr's and the ones they do have suck really bad? You think E* might be holding off?
 
Biggest Target for INDUCE: The Family PC

lostcause said:
I'm hoping that's a joke!! It has to be!!! lmao...if this bill passes, not only will DVR's be illegal but so will vcr's, xerox machines, scanners, cd/dvd burners, and maybe even computers.

Computers are, in fact, the biggest (and planned) target of INDUCE.

Why computers? Computers (primarily Intel/AMD computers, but also Macs as well) are the primary components of the P2P networks that have the MPAA/RIAA in such a tizzy. Worse, both associations have been getting their heads handed to them in the courts concerning P2P in particular (TiVo is on solid ground because of the Betamax decision).

If INDUCE passes, every company in the computer business (not just Microsoft, but Intel, AMD, and even Apple!) could be liable (civilly, criminally, or both) no thanks to the provisions loosely spelled out in INDUCE.

While INDUCE would likely *not* survive a court challenge, the time it takes a test case to wind its way through the court system would doubtless be used by the MPAA/RIAA to make the issue as moot as possible.

In fact, the CEA has joined the EFF in fighting INDUCE.
 

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