AZBOX WARNING: AzBox Premium HD Plus counterfeit units now being sold in the North American market!
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If you can not read your own accusations then you should not be posting.
You sir started this entire mess with your accusations and innuendos.
I would not trust buying anything from your business if my life depended on it at this time from all the dirty tactics you have tried to pull over on people.
Clones would not have the opensat labels on the box, the outside of the receiver and the inside of the receiver.
You want to make it look like vent holes are the definition of the azbox clones when in fact that is not true!
Maybe you should go back to your buddy Glen and have him sell some of your receivers for you.
Your both from the same mold.
You sir started this entire mess with your accusations and innuendos.
I would not trust buying anything from your business if my life depended on it at this time from all the dirty tactics you have tried to pull over on people.
Clones would not have the opensat labels on the box, the outside of the receiver and the inside of the receiver.
You want to make it look like vent holes are the definition of the azbox clones when in fact that is not true!
Maybe you should go back to your buddy Glen and have him sell some of your receivers for you.
Your both from the same mold.
Stargaze, since you have both types of units, is there any way to date the oddball (extra vents) unit(s)? For example, in relation to serial numbers (of course that is assuming that the numbers were sequential from first to last unit produced, and not randomly chosen sequential numbers). Also, as you mention, on each is the firmware version factory installed. Any way that could date them?
Just out of curiosity, did you ever notice the difference in number of vents before this?
As I stated on another website:
"As far as the differences in the units that Rick Caylor shipped (and has) from the standard units, I am wondering whether it could be that those units he got were from the end of a production run (maybe the last run?), and the company simply ran out of the standard covers, etc., and used other parts that they had, instead of re-tooling and making more to the original specifications. After all, it is not an Opensat owned company that put the units together, but one hired to do it. Could all come down to a quality control issue."
Just out of curiosity, did you ever notice the difference in number of vents before this?
As I stated on another website:
"As far as the differences in the units that Rick Caylor shipped (and has) from the standard units, I am wondering whether it could be that those units he got were from the end of a production run (maybe the last run?), and the company simply ran out of the standard covers, etc., and used other parts that they had, instead of re-tooling and making more to the original specifications. After all, it is not an Opensat owned company that put the units together, but one hired to do it. Could all come down to a quality control issue."
Again, please provide proof to substantiate your allegations of our so called accusations and dirty tactics. If a factory is good enough to manufacture product replicas that still work with the original firmware, they are surely able to replicate a simple white sticker that has the word OPENSAT on it along with a serial number coming from a sequential series.
Also, please try to find unbiased proof by either finding pictures from a review of a unit which did not come from Rick's or from a dealer not getting their units from Rick's selling the Premium HD Plus showing 3 vent rows on top instead of 2. We already did our share by posting unbiased proof in post 56 of this thread that authentic AzBox Premium HD Plus units have 2 rows of vents so now it's your turn to prove if there was also authentic AzBox Premium HD Plus units manufactured with three rows of vents by Celrun from Korea who was contracted by OpenSat to manufacture this model.
Most people know that you are a senior member on Rick's forum posting as Vendig so we will only take you seriously if you provide unbiased proof.
Regards,
PwrSurge
AzBox Canada
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I have seen nothing to date them by without taking off the entire top casing.
I have had these Plus receivers long before they went out of production.
So the vent holes have had differences long before Opensat even stopped the Az Ultra production.
The outside box the receiver comes in also says they are made in Korea.
I highly doubt any of the clones from China would have that on the box since they would have to pass through country of origin inspectors. Also the ones from China appear to have much different outside boxes the receivers come in from the website photo's.
I also do not know if the ones from China will actually do 4:2:2
The Az Premium plus receivers have been a great receiver and still are.
If your not sure and have one, pop off the top of the hard drive cover (5 screws)
and you will see a tag with "OPENSAT" on a chip connected to the motherboard directly under that hard drive holder.
stargaze, thanks for checking, was hoping there might be some indication. The oddballs could have come from any of the production runs, whether at the beginning, middle, or at the end. After all, since Opensat didn't own the manufacturing company, it wouldn't have been open-ended production, but in blocks of x number of receivers per run.
Yes, the Chinese clone does 4.2.2., as that was the first question I asked the person who got the clone from China.
Yes, the Chinese clone does 4.2.2., as that was the first question I asked the person who got the clone from China.
Keith,
Since you know of someone with the clone unit, ask them if there are any indicators on the receiver itself ie... labels or stamped as to the origin of the receiver or company name.
If they kept the original box it came in that may also indicate where it was from and the difference between original and clones.
The casing itself is not an indicator (by the amount of vent holes) on it.
Seems strange anyone would be griping about a receiver that is no longer in production , by a company that is no longer in business, and is picked up by a Chinese manufacturer which would be one of the very few out there that can pick up 4:2:2. Calling that a clone would be a bit of a stretch IMO.
Since you know of someone with the clone unit, ask them if there are any indicators on the receiver itself ie... labels or stamped as to the origin of the receiver or company name.
If they kept the original box it came in that may also indicate where it was from and the difference between original and clones.
The casing itself is not an indicator (by the amount of vent holes) on it.
Seems strange anyone would be griping about a receiver that is no longer in production , by a company that is no longer in business, and is picked up by a Chinese manufacturer which would be one of the very few out there that can pick up 4:2:2. Calling that a clone would be a bit of a stretch IMO.
All information about the clone is being posted at the LegitFTA forum. Apparently, there is no reference as to where the unit is made (don't know whether that is just on the box or also on the receiver). It does have an Opensat sticker on the bottom with the serial number, but that is the only reference to Opensat that he has seen (it is not on the box it came in).
Post #56 "So far, it appears that all the Premium HD Plus units with 3 rows of vents came from Rick's. We even contacted all authorised European AzBox distributors and from who we have heard from so far, none of them have ever heard of a new version of the Premium HD Plus with 3 rows of vents."
Am no English scholar but from your own post, sounds like your implying Rick is selling clones.
Am going to give you some unbias advice... you'll probably roll your eyes and say, "whatever" or maybe take what am going to say a bit seriously..its up to you.
Dude.. give it up. You iniitally screamed clones, got proven wrong. Instead of lying low, you're still putting up a fight...all you're going is tarnishing your own reputation, and that of AZBOX product. You've got more aliases than a CIA agent, and we can all make the connection between your 2 sites. Also, you've upset/annoyed/irritated/pissed off several members of the FTA community in the process.
As for collateral damage.. its hobbyists like me as I will never go near an Azbox product as a clone possibility will always be in the back of my mind.
I suggest you drop it and in a few months this will all blow over and no one will care. By continuing this, all you're doing is making more people aware of this mess.
Cheers, K
On the back side of the azbox there is also a stamp (not a white label as is on the underside) and it shows the model and distributor and my premium plus receivers with both types of vents say the distributor as "OpenSat Lda."
That is located above the HDMI input on my receivers.
oh someone bought a clone and took some photos and made some comparisons. Nice!
so from what the owner of the clone said:
(1) The AZBox logo is missing on the front of the receiver.
(2) There are 5 rows of vents on top.
(3) The bottom plate of the receiver is completely covered with rows of vents.
(4) The gift box does not have "Made in Korea" on it.
The clone receiver is missing more than one than one labeling as compared to the original. .
As for other labeling, It Does Have an Opensat sticker on the bottom along with the receiver's serial number. This is the only reference to Opensat on the receiver. There is nothing mentioned about Opensat on the gift box or any reference to where the receiver is made
Good to know it does 4:2:2
All the junk spouted off about the extra vents on top are nothing when I saw the bottom of the clone with it covered entirely with vent holes.
Then no Azbox logo on the front, basically a receiver which does not have the az logo on the receiver.
Wow! all this hoopla over something that is unfounded by the op.
should add that according to the photo's I saw there is also no engraving on the back of the receiver showing the distributor on the clone receiver but it is on the originals above the hdmi inputs.
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That stamp is also missing. Like I said, it doesn't even have AZBox on the front of the receiver, all it has is the model name. The clone is not an exact or even close replica in appearance, it is missing way too much to be confused as such.
You are reading into it something that isn't there. PwrSurge is stating a simple fact, from the investigation he has done, and from those who have replied to him, no one else knows of any units with 3 rows of vents. How else is he to say that? He doesn't conclude "therefore, Rick Caylor is selling clones." Don't read into it a conclusion that isn't stated.
Thanks Keith,
I edited my post after I took the time to visit that site and see the photos for myself.
If the op would have done their due diligence they would have seen this for themselves but choose instead to tear apart their own reputation by the falsehoods they kept spouting off without any real knowledge of what they were talking about.
I was approached 8 months before the ME's were even in production from a company in China about buying an AZ ME. I was tempted to see what they were like at the time but did not go for it.
According to the pictures of the "REAL" clone it is very apparent it is in no way even a close forgery or even capable of being classified as a clone. Just a no name receiver that uses the opensat firmware. (no name since there is none on the receiver).
This is just one dealer trying to gain attention for themselves and defaming other dealers with no just cause.
Or maybe the plan was to get others to buy from those websites out of China to get a receiver that can get 4:2:2 signals.
Thanks for that heads up! Now when the original receivers are completely sold out then people will know where to get them right from the company making them!
Stargaze, I disagree with your comments about the OP and assessment about due diligence. Post #48 in this thread details what happened, what steps were taken, and what investigations were carried out. WWS is an unauthorized Canadian dealer, so it was a natural assumption that they were selling clones. The fact that later, unbeknownst to AZBox Canada, it turned out that they were being supplied by the American distributor, and then to top it off, those units were oddballs in relation to their own and to others, is what caused the mistake. Frankly, I can't see any flaws/unfounded assumptions in their initial investigation (considering they didn't know WWS was being supplied by Rick Caylor). If it had been me doing the investigation, I would have made the same (mistaken) assumption that they did. That is why I have posted as I have, but, obviously, we disagree.
Its my interpretation. Here's one: WWS was accused of selling clones. It was determined he bought his gear from Rick. If I sell drugs, and I get my drugs from you...it doesn't make you an entrepreneur, no you're a drug dealer. OK its an extreme example, but accusing one is accusing the other.
Besides, you seem to be defending PwrSurge/Azbox/Dr Sat a bit. Considering you're both from lower Ontario, is there a relation there? Just seems a bit odd you're defending his case w/ such gusto.
Cheers, K
Keith,
The big difference is that the op did specifically call out as "confirmed" clone seller in post #3 as one being WWS. Evidently that was not really "confirmed" but their suspicion without it being "confirmed". Many times they were asked (by others here), to apologize for that but they had not nor had that statement been stricken or modified from their posts.
Either could have been done and I believe if a mistake was made the moderators would have even helped them out if they asked. Instead they went to several other sites with the same info over and over again.
Now I had no clue as to the existence of the other site you posted here (legit FTA) before last night and went there to see what you were talking about.
I posted here only after I physically removed parts from a couple of my own azbox premium plus receivers to verify here what I saw on them.
Again not having any clue that on another site this was also being done and then there was one person who actually went out on purpose to purchase a clone to try to settle this matter.
I saw almost the exact same thing I posted here, what was found on my az premium plus receivers, was already posted by others on another site I was completely unaware of.
The op continued to defend their statements vigorously under a false assumption that was not "confirmed". While the original intention of going after clones is noble and many would stand behind them for that, they went over the edge and have caused undue harm to their competitors that was unfounded.
Not only that they continued to show their bias by posting things as;
"please try to find unbiased proof by either finding pictures from a review of a unit which did not come from Rick's or from a dealer not getting their units from Rick's"
As a hobbyist who did not start this thread, that is not my or our responsibility to provide proof to the claims the op has made as they should have done that themselves.
However, that was done last night, when on another site a person who actually purchased one of the clones posted pictures and described an actual one they had in their possession.
When I had to expose another person who was doing things to others who used their service which was not only unethical but also illegal, I had to wait until I had the information form those affected and could not come out saying things that I suspected but only after I was able to see exactly what they did would I bring it out in the open.
The truth usually wins out over falsehoods and as it appears to be happening here the truth is coming out but the op staunchly refused to say they were wrong which now has damaged their own reputation and it has opened them wide up for legal action by those they have affected.
The time spent doing all this would IMO have been better spent on working on their own business and less on attacking others, or defending their own actions. As we are talking about one business (not a non business individual) posting suspicions as being confirmed by them when if fact that was not the case.
So yes their due diligence was not done here.
The big difference is that the op did specifically call out as "confirmed" clone seller in post #3 as one being WWS. Evidently that was not really "confirmed" but their suspicion without it being "confirmed". Many times they were asked (by others here), to apologize for that but they had not nor had that statement been stricken or modified from their posts.
Either could have been done and I believe if a mistake was made the moderators would have even helped them out if they asked. Instead they went to several other sites with the same info over and over again.
Now I had no clue as to the existence of the other site you posted here (legit FTA) before last night and went there to see what you were talking about.
I posted here only after I physically removed parts from a couple of my own azbox premium plus receivers to verify here what I saw on them.
Again not having any clue that on another site this was also being done and then there was one person who actually went out on purpose to purchase a clone to try to settle this matter.
I saw almost the exact same thing I posted here, what was found on my az premium plus receivers, was already posted by others on another site I was completely unaware of.
The op continued to defend their statements vigorously under a false assumption that was not "confirmed". While the original intention of going after clones is noble and many would stand behind them for that, they went over the edge and have caused undue harm to their competitors that was unfounded.
Not only that they continued to show their bias by posting things as;
"please try to find unbiased proof by either finding pictures from a review of a unit which did not come from Rick's or from a dealer not getting their units from Rick's"
As a hobbyist who did not start this thread, that is not my or our responsibility to provide proof to the claims the op has made as they should have done that themselves.
However, that was done last night, when on another site a person who actually purchased one of the clones posted pictures and described an actual one they had in their possession.
When I had to expose another person who was doing things to others who used their service which was not only unethical but also illegal, I had to wait until I had the information form those affected and could not come out saying things that I suspected but only after I was able to see exactly what they did would I bring it out in the open.
The truth usually wins out over falsehoods and as it appears to be happening here the truth is coming out but the op staunchly refused to say they were wrong which now has damaged their own reputation and it has opened them wide up for legal action by those they have affected.
The time spent doing all this would IMO have been better spent on working on their own business and less on attacking others, or defending their own actions. As we are talking about one business (not a non business individual) posting suspicions as being confirmed by them when if fact that was not the case.
So yes their due diligence was not done here.
4 different
the "guy" lost my business when talking about clone killing SW.
but see what happened to him ..found a plus that's not like his. thus not real.
Rick says his are not clones he bought them like every 1 he bought before. that's good enough for me.
yet opensat sent him pictures of a clone i've seen online that did not have the top opening for the hard drive.better vented
model i'll call it or #2. (anyone got 1 of those plus's ?)
if there was any monkey business going on it could have been from the az maker.
is my 3 row of vents Plus a clone ? well it's not llike the first runs of them is it. or is it a third production run.
now there's are #4 type of plus that el bandido bought.
but after all this would not want to bet my life on any of them lol
would like to compare mine with one like el bandido bought, but at $250........... not so much.
obviously stargaze you find no difference in the performance in the 2 types you own right ?
the "guy" lost my business when talking about clone killing SW.
but see what happened to him ..found a plus that's not like his. thus not real.
Rick says his are not clones he bought them like every 1 he bought before. that's good enough for me.
yet opensat sent him pictures of a clone i've seen online that did not have the top opening for the hard drive.better vented
model i'll call it or #2. (anyone got 1 of those plus's ?)
if there was any monkey business going on it could have been from the az maker.
is my 3 row of vents Plus a clone ? well it's not llike the first runs of them is it. or is it a third production run.
now there's are #4 type of plus that el bandido bought.
but after all this would not want to bet my life on any of them lol
would like to compare mine with one like el bandido bought, but at $250........... not so much.
obviously stargaze you find no difference in the performance in the 2 types you own right ?
And incorrect, as PwrSurge said: "For the record, we at AzBox Canada NEVER stated that Rick Caylor is selling clones."
Now, let's see how well your interpretations and assumptions really work:
You are the second person to make such an unfounded assumption, without any evidence whatsoever, and just because I can understand what happened and what went wrong, and disagree with your interpretation of facts/events. It does make me laugh when people resort to such tactics.
Just to set your mind at ease, I don't work for PwrSurge/Azbox/Dr Sat, or have any connection with any dealers or distributors in any capacity.
So, by your logic, am I to then assume that you and everyone who disagrees with me works for Rick?
"You are the second person to make such an unfounded assumption"
It wasnt an assumption chief, it was a question directed at you.. which you answered so thank you.
"So, by your logic, am I to then assume that you and everyone who disagrees with me works for Rick? "
Feel free to assume whatever, but its been documented on this site several times that I would never buy from Rick
since I dont like the way he runs his site.
I Still find it odd that you're really gun-ho on defending Serge (an no am not implying anything)
Cheers, K
It wasnt an assumption chief, it was a question directed at you.. which you answered so thank you.
"So, by your logic, am I to then assume that you and everyone who disagrees with me works for Rick? "
Feel free to assume whatever, but its been documented on this site several times that I would never buy from Rick
since I dont like the way he runs his site.
I Still find it odd that you're really gun-ho on defending Serge (an no am not implying anything)
Cheers, K
Stargaze,
I'm not saying that, in hindsight, things could not have been handled better or with more finesse. What I am saying is I understand the sequence of events, as I stated.
I asked you before whether you had ever noticed the vent differences in your units before all this, and didn't get a reply from you. If you did notice, did you think anything of it? The reason I asked was because, so far, the oddball units have only been found coming from Rick's or dealers supplied by Rick. As we all know, production stopped in 2011 and clones began to be made late in 2012. So, if other dealers did get similar oddball receivers (and I certainly do think that) then would anyone have noticed? I would assume that since most units would have been sold as is (box unopened) they could have passed without any dealers noticing (plus, no one was looking for clones at the time). As well, it appears to me (from a quick internet check) that North America seems to have more stock of the units left for sale. So that too could be a factor.
I'm not saying that, in hindsight, things could not have been handled better or with more finesse. What I am saying is I understand the sequence of events, as I stated.
I asked you before whether you had ever noticed the vent differences in your units before all this, and didn't get a reply from you. If you did notice, did you think anything of it? The reason I asked was because, so far, the oddball units have only been found coming from Rick's or dealers supplied by Rick. As we all know, production stopped in 2011 and clones began to be made late in 2012. So, if other dealers did get similar oddball receivers (and I certainly do think that) then would anyone have noticed? I would assume that since most units would have been sold as is (box unopened) they could have passed without any dealers noticing (plus, no one was looking for clones at the time). As well, it appears to me (from a quick internet check) that North America seems to have more stock of the units left for sale. So that too could be a factor.
