Where do I start for C band?

[tracker1998]

Hello gentlemen. Last summer, with your guidance, I set up for the KU band.
I have been using it quite a bit. The fascination of this hobby and reading on this site has had me put down $10.00 CDN today for a used 10' ? wire mesh dish that I spotted out in a field.
I just got off the phone with a co-worker from years ago, and he is willing to give me his wire mesh dish for parts as it is in rough shape, and his receivers.
The first I think is OK, but with the 2 of them, I should be able to put something together with certainty.

My first question is, my KU true south is 74.0W as I am Lat. 45.0186 x Long. -74.7087.
For C band, would 72.0W be my true south as this seems to be the closest?

The second question is, KU and C band. The same process just bigger hardware and some different satellites?

And finally, if I don't get receivers with these dishes, will my CoolSat 5000 work with a BUD. There sure seems to be a lot of wires?

I will get the dishes and do some research for now as I'm up in "cold-cold Canada", and wait for warmer weather to set up. If I can be pointed to some links that would be great!

I know from past, that this site is the place to ask the questions. Intelligent and respectful answers to a newbie.

For that, I Thank You all in advance. Marc.

 

[phlatwound]

Marc, I looked at Lyngsat and it appears the 72W would be the C-band sat nearest your true south. NASA has a mux there, as well as several other FTA channels for you to test with.

The CS 5000 will work to receive signals with your BUD, but it will not energize an actuator, and it will not change polarity on a servo-style feed. It WILL control polarity on a voltage-controlled LNBF.

Post some pics of what you get!

 

[truckracer]

You will need to plant a steel pipe in the ground below your frost line that perfectly plumb.
The pole cannot be leaning. Use a level all the way around the pole and make sure it is perfectly plumb....may i repeat...perfectly plumb LOL.

Use plenty of cement and drill the pipe horizontally and put some rebar or large bolts or metal steel rods of some sort to keep the post from turning in the concrete.


Get a good feedhorn and lnbs or a good lnbf. Stay away from the bsc-621 combo lnbf.
(just my opinion..mine sucked on KU),

If your big dish is gonna be C band only then their are plenty of low cost lnbf's to buy.

If you want ku as well on the same dish...get a good feedhorn like a chaparall Corotor with good lnbs. The best lnbs are expensive pll types like Norsat or California amplifier.

If you can spend the cash ...they are well worth it.

The cheaper lnbs like the dms bsc 211 work pretty well and you cannot complain about the money...they are cheap to buy.

 

[tracker1998]

phlatwound, just as I thought. 72W. I hope my ex-co workers will hold true to offer me his machines and that would take care of everything to move my BUD. If not then I guess I will be asking the next questions.

truckracer. I am hoping to use the dish as a whole and not to have to buy anything. They both are complete and hopefully in working condition? Is there a reason why I would want to purchase new lnbf or lnbs? I ask the question as I have yet to do research as to what a feedhorn is and what the difference is between an lnbf and a lnbs and why I would want to change the original ones. I will be using this as a C band only as my KU setup is fine. Thanks for the idea for the rebar. I will dig a BIG hole. Plumb the pole will be!

I certainly will post some pictures as my project moves along.

T.Y. Marc.

 

[phlatwound]

If the BUD and receiver is still functional there is a good chance you won't need to buy much of anything, just need a high freq splitter to slave the CS 5000 to the analog receiver.

Unless your existing feed and LNB on the BUD is pretty ancient there is a good chance it will work just fine for C-band digital reception.

You'll use the old analog receiver to move the BUD and to switch the servo motor to horizontal/vertical polarity....also to receive what little analog signals that remain.

With the dish aimed, and polarity selected, you can scan and view the digital signals with your Coolsat.

With some pictures, especially some closeups of the feedhorn & LNB, we can give you more specific info.

 

[tracker1998]

Pics and questions to come. Thanks again. Marc.

 

[truckracer]

Some really old lnbs have a high noise temperature that can possibly cause problems with digital because of the noise figure. However don't get too worried about the numbers game because some of the cheapo 13 degree lnbs are more unstable with more frequency drift also causing problems especially transponders with tight error correction. Such as an FEC of 7/8

 

[B.J.]

You will need to plant a steel pipe in the ground below your frost line that perfectly plumb.
The pole cannot be leaning. Use a level all the way around the pole and make sure it is perfectly plumb....may i repeat...perfectly plumb LOL.

......

I agree that it is highly recommended to have the pole perfectly plumb, as it makes alignment much much much easier..... however the pole doesn't NEED to be perfectly plumb. You can track the arc perfectly with a pole that's leaning. Supposedly, some fellow who sold alignment devices used to demonstrate how to align a dish on a pole that was sloping some 30 or 40 degrees. At the time, I was certain that it was impossible, however I made myself a little wooden model of a sat dish, and convinced myself that indeed it WAS possible.
But yes, starting out with a leaning pole would really complicate things.

 

[tracker1998]

Hello all. I took some pictures to see if someone could help me identify these dishes,,, to see if there is any potential for a setup and if one of these receivers would at the very least turn the dish if I am to use my CoolSat 5000 to receive the picture. Or would I simply want to use one of the the boxes to receive as well?
I'm looking at both dishes to make one good setup. I'm not sure if they are compatible?
The Star-Trak has a Channel Master card in it and one below as you can see in the picture. The guy tells me he may have more cards but I'm not to sure what these are for?
The Chaparral doesn't seem to need one of these cards?
Anyway, here are the pics. If this seems to be a waste of time and effort, please let me know. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Marc.

Pics 11-17 is the first dish. (The first 7)
Pics 18-29 are of the second dish and the recievers.

 

[tvropro]

The chaparral Monterey was the Caddy of satellite receivers in the 90's, I owned a 50. The 70 you have shown added built in surround sound processing. I would use this to watch the few analogs left and move the dish and change polarity.

Dont worry about the videocipher modules in the other receivers just pull them out and use as paper weights. They are useless now.

 

[Lak7]

The first seems to have all the mesh panels complete, the kinked ones can be removed, rolled flat and reinstalled. But I'd guess the Arm is not in working order. Giv it the "Srting Test" to see if it is warped.

The second has missing panel, but the Arm looks to be in better shape. You can use the Receivers or a Car battery to test to see if the Arms will move.

I would keep the Scalar Rings, and get a new Combo C / Ku LNBF that a Coolsat can control. Up grade to a GBox dish mover if everything else works out.

 

[tracker1998]

Lak7. After reading your reply, it seems like investing a little would go a long way.
After some research, I think that the Sadoun V3000 would make things a lot easier in the end and keep things nice and tidy and have everything work with my CoolSat 5000.
I have no idea what LNBF's are in these dishes. I have no clue how old the first dish is but the second one must be close to 25 yrs. old. Any ideas anyone?
It might be best I consider purchasing a GeoSat C/KU LNBF. Does this LNBF have both vertical and horizontal polarity?
The actuator on the second dish I was told was changed a while back so I hope it works. The center piece of sheet metal is missing on the first dish. Is this a crucial part?
Well,,, it seems I have a shot at this as no one has told me to give up on the idea except my girlfriend.. LOL.

Thank You all. Marc.

 

[Anole]

Give up? I see a lot of potential, there.
You could probably get either dish working.
If you are taking both, then I don't see how you could go wrong.
You only want to put up just one dish?

Also, you seem pretty well versed.
The Gbox 3000 does appear the best solution to go with your Coolsat 5000.
You could start out by moving the dish and servo with the old analog receivers, but fiddling with them is a judgment call, and a question of money.
Likewise a newer dual band LNBF with no servo is a simpler solution, too.

About the only unknown is Ku-ability on the dish.
It needs to be accurate and have small holes.
If it does, then you should be in good shape.

As mentioned above, a plumb pole is a must.
Are you going to dig out one or both poles?
If so, it's a hard job. Take several strong men and sledge hammers.
I did it once, and I'll never do it again.

As for the rusty metal, it'll still work.
I'm taking a more aggressive approach to mine, but some would say too much.
Search for my recent comments on painting if you care.

I think you are good to go.

 

[tracker1998]

Hi Anole, I'm digging in my French Canadian "Jean-Guy" rubber boots into the still frozen ground and taking both of these down and maybe another as well !
I will rip the poles to ground level if the owners want to get rid of them.
I can't be bothered to dig them up. A new pole is in order for my install.
I'm only putting up 1 BUD dish making the best of all parts!!
The deal with the girlfriend is that I use my 36" HH dish with my QPH031 for her to watch TV on a regular basis on one receiver.
I get a new pole and some parts to test on my CoolSat and my BUD. Seems like a fair arrangement. Keeps me out of trouble and testing fun!!
Still I would like to know if the center plate is assential? And,, you make me wonder about the question about the holes for KU-ability. Can you give me more info?
Well versed,, NO. It all comes from good advice from all of you from this site. I can not Thank You ALL egnough for the advise! Leading me in the right direction, pointing my nose in the right way so I can learn. Not handing it down to me but letting me,, "search and find" the solution. Half, if not most of the fun, is learning how to do it. This is why I am back. I like the way things are done here! A newbie gets respect.
I'm glad to have acknlodgement that this is not a waste of my time and effort.

A good group of testers... I Thank You..

Marc.

 

[Anole]

Well, searching on the internet or on this forum... it's a challenge.
You have to know what question to ask to get an appropriate answer.
And if you don't know some key word, you're out of luck. -

I keep a list of about 50 valuable threads here on the forum, to hand out to those with common questions.

Your hole size matter has been discussed, but the short answer is: "if you can't stick a #2 pencil through it, you're probably okay".
There is a better and longer answer, with pictures of mesh and actually perforated metal, but I don't have that bookmarked.

The dish also needs to conform to a pretty accurate parabolic curve for best Ku.
The accuracy for C-band is considerably lower.
And of course on a gross level, any dish should pass the string test.

As for your hole in the middle of the dish, if the plate isn't needed for mechanical stability, then forget it.
My Birdview has a 4" plastic snap-in hole plug.
Which reminds me, that's probably a standard part somewhere.
I should search for 'em! -

 

[tracker1998]

Today I took down both LNBF's and the actuators.
The Chaparral LNBF and the rusty actuator from the first dish are much heavier than the pieces from the second dish?
I took pictures of both in hopes that some one could tell me what I have here?
I also took some close ups of the inside of the LNBF's as I noticed the inside wire of the Chaparral was a different shape than the Channel Master? Marc.

 

[1captain]

on the 1st dish picture (the good looking dish with all the panels) is that a 12ft orbitron?

now both of you feeds are c-band with servo motor, so you will need a receiver to control polarity, or up grade feed at some time.

now on you're actuators both are 24 inch, the alum 1 looks like a old sts model, which should have a reed switch in it. the rusty 1 is a UST705 carried a uniden name made by Von Weise (V-76 model) good actuator. but bet that it has a optic sensor instead of a reed switch so if you get it working may need to up grade to a reed switch to work with a g-box. now you can pull that tube off it an clean all the rust out of it an test run it to see. slide the rubber boot forward an remove 3 screw at the base of the motor an that ube will slide off, then try to test run it.

 

[tracker1998]

Hi 1captain. The dish with the good panels is the one I will be using. I don't know what make it is or the size of it as I haven't measured it yet. I surely will do some research now that you gave me "food for thought".

I am really considering getting a new GBox and a C/KU lnbf to make thing neater and work well with my CoolSat 5000.

I have attached pictures of the actuators for all to look at and give advise.

(Pic #1) The newer one works. There are some minor issues with one of the mounting pivoting "eyeballs" where one of them has a piece out of it. Easy fix.

(Pic #2) The rusty one that came with the dish I will be using is not moving. Tests show that it is simply seized. Surely I can clean it up if need be, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to modify it to work with the GBox. (Can you see I'm taking the easy way out here???)

I will wait for advise from all of you and then decide what to do next.

Thank You all, Marc.

 

[Anole]

Your 2nd picture (to the right) shows clearly the 4-magnet wheel, with the reed switch under it, and a black micro switch to the right, driven by a cam that does the limits.
Once you know what you are looking at, it's all very clear.
I'd clean the magnetic crap off the wheel, just 'cause.

The left (#1) picture... I don't see all the working parts in that shot.
But if it works, I guess that is what ya want.

BTW, your close up photos are first rate! - :up

 

[tracker1998]

Thanks Anole. I will keep the old one for back up (Pic#2). I think it's a better actuator by the looks and weight of it.
The newer one (Pic #1) I think I will use.
Next thing is how to wire this thing up?

I think I'm well on my way now.

I have to rip both dishes down, fix and "plant" the one with the good panels.
Salvage #2 for cash to pay for new parts. (wire and parts are not cheap).
Get some hardware and make it all come together.

At that point, I will be back asking questions. I won't be amuzing all of you this time with my feet sticking out of the house window to crawl to and from the dish... LOL.

Still a lot of work to do. In the meantime, I will be in the background and doing a lot of reading and some camping. I will be back near the Canadian fall season where I know help will be here. I hope I find you all in good health and good spirits at that time!

For now, I Thank You all for the help.

I'm proud to be accepted in a great group of true FTA testers. Marc.