Why is UHD at a standstill?

KAB

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There have been no new players released this year (at least affordable ones). Ones available are far from perfect. Prices are not coming down. Just seems like it's stuck in a rut.
 

harshness

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theBruce

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UHD/4K is not at a standstill, Physical Discs are going bye bye but 4K streaming content is growing every day, for example who was not surprised to find the original Star Wars movies in 4K on Disney+.
 
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KAB

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UHD/4K is not at a standstill, Physical Discs are going bye bye but 4K streaming content is growing every day, for example who was not surprised to find the original Star Wars movies in 4K on Disney+.
I was referring to physical media.
 

Foxbat

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…the original Star Wars movies in 4K on Disney+.
"the original"? I've lost count how many versions of "Star Wars: A New Hope" there are, and I hear the version on Disney+ is yet another one.
 

Magic Static

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I was looking at Sony's line of 4K home movie projectors :eeek Starting at just under 2K and going to 60K, yeah that's right, $60,000. There is one at $34k and one for $20K and many more.
 

harshness

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I was looking at Sony's line of 4K home movie projectors :eeek Starting at just under 2K and going to 60K, yeah that's right, $60,000. There is one at $34k and one for $20K and many more.
That's perhaps to be expected when the technology behind them is no longer subsidized by the RPTV market.
 

harshness

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The problem with 4K projectors
Is getting that many pixels
On a chip the size of a postage stamp
Who said that the imaging array must be the size of a postage stamp? Film projectors go from 8mm to 70mm so why should there be a constraint on the size of an imager?

Syndiant makes a 4K LCoS imager that is just over 1/2" diagonally if you see that as an imperative. TI makes a 4K DLP imager that is less than half an inch (but you typically need to use three chips).

The problem with projectors has always been economies of scale and it only got worse when they stopped making projection TVs. That most theater projectors aren't 16x9 doesn't improve the situation for 16x9 projectors.
 

TheForce

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I was looking at Sony's line of 4K home movie projectors :eeek Starting at just under 2K and going to 60K, yeah that's right, $60,000. There is one at $34k and one for $20K and many more.
If you aren't in a rush, keep watching ebay for new overstock Sony's for bargain prices. I managed to buy a VPL VW-665ES for $8700 from a Home Theater business in Chicago that was going out of business. It was an auction and I was the only bidder but that was after losing bids at other auctions 3 times. The 4K upscaler is amazing quality for 3D upscaled to 4K. I had a 90 ES before which was native 2K and the 3D was not so great compared. Sony came out with a newer model a few months after I bought mine but all it offered was both inputs had HDCP 2.2 while mine only has one that is HDCP 2.2 compliant. No big deal as I am always feeding 4K on all 2D content anyway from the AVR. Only 2K I feed is my Dish Network VIP722K and that goes through my Denon AVR so I still only need one input on the projector. The Projector upscales the Dish Network 2K to 4K and does a really good job.

Unless you really need a larger screen than 110" wide, I wouldn't waste money on the 1000+ series Sony's. The middle units like I bought will siffice up to about 120" screen width. Besides, hanging the bigger projector is quite a chore. I'm using a matte white screen too and the 665 is plenty bright compared to my older 90ES.

Also, the lamps have gotten much better too. The 665ES allows you to change the lamp with it hanging from the ceiling, a really nice feature. Plus I buy the basic bulb and stick it in the the lamp assembly. It's really an easy replacement and lowers your cost from ~$750 to under $90 for a lamp that lasts over 5000 hours before you see the brightness dim.

Good luck on your search. You won't regret buying a Sony projector.
 
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KaptainRandom

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Who said that the imaging array must be the size of a postage stamp? Film projectors go from 8mm to 70mm so why should there be a constraint on the size of an imager?

Syndiant makes a 4K LCoS imager that is just over 1/2" diagonally if you see that as an imperative. TI makes a 4K DLP imager that is less than half an inch (but you typically need to use three chips).

The problem with projectors has always been economies of scale and it only got worse when they stopped making projection TVs. That most theater projectors aren't 16x9 doesn't improve the situation for 16x9 projectors.
And all of what you listed are 'outlyers' with off scale prices.
Not readily/reasonably available for home user.

Sent from my SM-G930P using the SatelliteGuys app!
 

harshness

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Not readily/reasonably available for home user.
"Affordable" projectors have always lagged direct view technologies. It is much worse now that direct view isn't using the same underlying technologies.

You didn't answer my challenge about the imperative of tiny imagers.

That 3840 x 2160 resolutions haven't really caught fire in the personal computer world is also not contributing to the subsidy of higher resolution projectors. Of course what could 4K bring to PowerPoint?
 

TheForce

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Here's the negative side of a Sony Projector, like the VPL VW665ES I have.

The latest rendition of digital video is color space and contrast ratio, or HDR.

First of all these new video UHD like to see a higher brightness monitor, much brighter than any projector on the market can produce even the most expensive ones. Brightness is measured in Nits. A typical modern bright projector can achieve about 200-250 Nits. But HDR10 can offer up to 1000 nits. Today we have HDR10+ and Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision can offer as high as contrast ration from 0 to 10,000 nits. It will be quite awhile before we see a panel or other display system capable of achieving what Dolby Vision and even HDR10+ can offer which is about 4000 Nits. If your display can't achieve the stated brightness per pixel, no worry, the difference will be a slight lack of image detail in the very bright parts of the scene, such as flame detail in a fire but most of the average scenery will look OK.

Colors are easier to achieve and being able to view REC2020 or BT2020 (they are the same) at 10 Bit color can be seen in the Sony Projector that can decode 10 bit range of colors compared to the traditional 8 bit or BT709 setting. All modern panel screens can do both 8 bit and 10 bit, but only the better projectors can decode 10 bit color.
What is the difference between HDR and HDR10+? : HDR sets the dynamic range over the whole video scene, while HDR10+ analyzes and resets the dynamic range for each frame and updates every frame.

If you have a program being distributed in 8 bit, the colors will look horrible in 10 bit. But will look washed out if a 10 bit program is viewed in 8 bit. This means if you have a projector that cannot decode 10 bit, buying a UHD 4K Blue Ray is a sure way to make that expensive disk look awful, which is why these disks are sold with a standard BluRay version for playback on systems that can only support 8Bit or BT709.

A final word on this is that you must employ all links in your chain to support 10 bit color 4K or it may not work. Most AVR's have a setting for video pass through which is better but it is best to upgrade the program source, the AVR and the display for these higher formats.

I hope this clarifies the latest in the format wars of 2019 and if shopping now helps you decide what's important according to your budget.
 
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harshness

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Don't feel bad -- most OLED TVs are struggling mightily to get 600 nits for highlights and a full "bright white" OLED screen may be only 150 nits.

Projectors have always been about room light control and OLED is exposing more to that need.
 

TheForce

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I have full room light control so the main problem for projectors is the ambient light mixing with the projector light off the screen. This produces poor quality blacks in the scene even on a very bright projector. Home theater's are not supposed to be a TV set in a fully lit room. Theaters by design are dark. If you want a TV, the 55" OLED are perfect, but a 55" screen is not a home theater.

I once thought I would mount a 65" OLED 4K behind my roll down screen for daytime viewing with full room light, but buying the 665ES projector was bright enough to watch in that environment so I never bought the panel TV. Then they stopped making the 3D OLED TV's so that ended that.
 
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