Winegard Trav'ler and HR44 in motorhome

[rhusak]

Hi Everyone..
First of all I will be the first to admit I am not the sharpest tool in the box especially when it comes to electronics.
If I could find a "qualified" installer in the Denver area that I feel comfortable with I would have them do this in a flash..
What could be so complex you ask? Well I have an 04 motorhome with a Kingdome satellite dish that refuses to lock onto a satellite. I haven't been able to get anyone who will even look at the dish so it's time to upgrade. I figured I would like to take advantage of the HD flat panels the previous owner installed in the coach. I am a Direct TV customer so I am limited to using a Winegard Trav'ler to take advantage or their HD programming. My questions are.. is there a switch that I can use to keep using over the air, park cable and a Winegard carry out that I use when I am blocked by trees? I want to use 2 clients plus the HR44 for 3 zones. Will the clients be able to use the signals from these "other" signals?
Maybe I am asking too much? Doesn't seem like I am asking too much but as I have said I am pretty slow on this stuff..
Thanks in advance for any insight and help..
Ron Husak
?Conifer, CO

 

[cinsu]

Ron,

If you NEED all 3 sources (off-air, CATV and Sat) at the same time the only thing I could suggest would be to use something like this (I had a link here but the forum won't let me post links? Google for "3 way coax switch"). There is no easy way to consolidate 3 sources on to the same wire.

The clients alone will not be able to view anything without the HR44. For lack of better explanation think of the HR44 as a brain and the clients as hands or feet, the clients can't function and won't do anything without the HR44 and everything they do requires activity from it. However, you can use a device called an AM21 (I had another link here, go to solidsignal.com and search for AM21) with either off-air or CATV and connect it to the HR44. This would place the off-air or CATV channels in your guide and this would be the only way the clients would be able to receive the off-air or CATV channels.

My suggestion would be to have to use a 2-way switch similar to what I have linked above, connect one side to your off-air antenna and the other side to a coax connector on the outside of your RV to be used for park CATV. Connect the output of the switch into an AM21. I would assume pretty much any park with CATV would have the same channels you would receive off-air so you wouldn't necessarily need both.

 

[Jimbo]

Hi Everyone..
First of all I will be the first to admit I am not the sharpest tool in the box especially when it comes to electronics.
If I could find a "qualified" installer in the Denver area that I feel comfortable with I would have them do this in a flash..
What could be so complex you ask? Well I have an 04 motorhome with a Kingdome satellite dish that refuses to lock onto a satellite. I haven't been able to get anyone who will even look at the dish so it's time to upgrade. I figured I would like to take advantage of the HD flat panels the previous owner installed in the coach. I am a Direct TV customer so I am limited to using a Winegard Trav'ler to take advantage or their HD programming. My questions are.. is there a switch that I can use to keep using over the air, park cable and a Winegard carry out that I use when I am blocked by trees? I want to use 2 clients plus the HR44 for 3 zones. Will the clients be able to use the signals from these "other" signals?
Maybe I am asking too much? Doesn't seem like I am asking too much but as I have said I am pretty slow on this stuff..
Thanks in advance for any insight and help..
Ron Husak
?Conifer, CO

LIMITED to using a Winegard Trav'ler ?

Thats the best one out there for D*, how are you Limited ?

 

[rhusak]

LIMITED to using a Winegard Trav'ler ?

Thats the best one out there for D*, how are you Limited ?

Jimbo..
Limited because I can't get it to do what I want.. That is without rewiring the whole coach..
? Ron

 

[rhusak]

Ron,

If you NEED all 3 sources (off-air, CATV and Sat) at the same time the only thing I could suggest would be to use something like this (I had a link here but the forum won't let me post links? Google for "3 way coax switch"). There is no easy way to consolidate 3 sources on to the same wire.

The clients alone will not be able to view anything without the HR44. For lack of better explanation think of the HR44 as a brain and the clients as hands or feet, the clients can't function and won't do anything without the HR44 and everything they do requires activity from it. However, you can use a device called an AM21 (I had another link here, go to solidsignal.com and search for AM21) with either off-air or CATV and connect it to the HR44. This would place the off-air or CATV channels in your guide and this would be the only way the clients would be able to receive the off-air or CATV channels.

My suggestion would be to have to use a 2-way switch similar to what I have linked above, connect one side to your off-air antenna and the other side to a coax connector on the outside of your RV to be used for park CATV. Connect the output of the switch into an AM21. I would assume pretty much any park with CATV would have the same channels you would receive off-air so you wouldn't necessarily need both.

cinsu..
Thanks for the reply.. I don't really need to have all three sources at the same time. But would like the three zones (three display areas) to work independently. But would like the flexibility to use the different sources as the need arises.. For example I am blocked by trees and want to use my Winegard Carry out. I would like to use the system to send that to all zones of TV's. But I am not sure if the HR44 will accept that signal. Or use the park signal over the network in the same way..
I noted the AM21. Does it broadcast or push the over the air out over the network? Does it use the HR44 to do that? Is there a similar device for the other dish(carry out or park signal)? The park cable is mostly used when I want local channels or there are so many trees that I can't use either dish!
I really appreciate your patience and information..
Ron Husak

 

[Bodo Fenrirsson]

cinsu..
Thanks for the reply.. I don't really need to have all three sources at the same time. But would like the three zones (three display areas) to work independently. But would like the flexibility to use the different sources as the need arises.. For example I am blocked by trees and want to use my Winegard Carry out. I would like to use the system to send that to all zones of TV's. But I am not sure if the HR44 will accept that signal. Or use the park signal over the network in the same way..
I noted the AM21. Does it broadcast or push the over the air out over the network? Does it use the HR44 to do that? Is there a similar device for the other dish(carry out or park signal)? The park cable is mostly used when I want local channels or there are so many trees that I can't use either dish!
I really appreciate your patience and information..
Ron Husak

You attach the AM21 to your HR 44 via usb port & the signal should carry over to your clients & be part of your Directv guide. Does park cable work without a STB? Unfortunately you may have to rewire as Directv would not accept a cable signal as you desire,only OTA via the AM 21. You could get a TiVo Roamio box & 2 TiVo clients & network the cable signal that way &,I believe,network from the Roamio to the clients via Ethernet connection.

 

[BobStokesbary]

Ron,
I think you have more of a project on your hands than you realize. I have an 03 Beaver Patriot so I don't think the basic cabling of our rigs is really that much different. I have one RG59 that runs from the service area (where you do the hook-ups) to the overhead cabinets in the front of the coach. This is the campground cable input for my TVs. My sat had a coax that went to the receiver (and controller) in the same area. The sat output was S-cable to the front room TV and RF to the bedroom TV. In all likelihood your setup is very similar. Important to note is that your receiver has an RF (or video) output that goes to your existing switch-box/distribution box and that all signals (campground cable or your sat receiver) are basically RF throughout your rig. This makes it simple to have a single connection to each of the TVs and distribute everything with an RF switch in the front cabinet. Your current life is also eased by the fact that your dome and your Winegard Carry Out are both SD so they have the same output and can be easily substituted for input to your receiver.

What you are proposing is a dramatic shift from this simpler setup. The HR44 is a SWM only configuration. The Winegard Trav'ler comes in two flavors; SWM and non-SWM so you need to get the SWM version to drive the HR44. You will probably need to run new cables to each of the additional two locations since your existing wiring will probably not adequately support SWM (and specifically MRV which is how the clients are really working). And since these coax cables are input to your clients you do not want to put any switching mechanism in these lines. You will connect each of the receiver/client's outputs via HDMI connections.

Now you need to figure out what to do with your Traveler Carry Out. It is totally incompatible with your HR44 and I, for one, have no idea how you would connect it to anything other than keeping your existing receiver active for use in your RV and run RG59 lines to each of the TVs for that.

Then you have the issue of campground cable. I'm not sure, but from all my reading you cannot mix cable TV and SWM (particularly MRV) with cable frequencies. So, I think the only way you can handle this is to setup a splitter in your overhead cabinet and run the cable line to each of the receiver coax inputs.

You do not mention OTA reception, but if you wanted to add that it would add more complexity as well.

So, given the configuration you outlined, I think you have quite a project on your hands. Good luck. I never realized just how much I simplified my life by just using a tripod setup in our RV and just running an RF of the front receiver to the bedroom. So much simpler.

I hope you share how this all works out for you. Many have discussed similar setups and never returned to describe how things worked for them. The lack of feedback leads me to believe that many do not succeed when they try to do this themselves.

 

[Bodo Fenrirsson]

Ron,
I think you have more of a project on your hands than you realize. I have an 03 Beaver Patriot so I don't think the basic cabling of our rigs is really that much different. I have one RG59 that runs from the service area (where you do the hook-ups) to the overhead cabinets in the front of the coach. This is the campground cable input for my TVs. My sat had a coax that went to the receiver (and controller) in the same area. The sat output was S-cable to the front room TV and RF to the bedroom TV. In all likelihood your setup is very similar. Important to note is that your receiver has an RF (or video) output that goes to your existing switch-box/distribution box and that all signals (campground cable or your sat receiver) are basically RF throughout your rig. This makes it simple to have a single connection to each of the TVs and distribute everything with an RF switch in the front cabinet. Your current life is also eased by the fact that your dome and your Winegard Carry Out are both SD so they have the same output and can be easily substituted for input to your receiver.

What you are proposing is a dramatic shift from this simpler setup. The HR44 is a SWM only configuration. The Winegard Trav'ler comes in two flavors; SWM and non-SWM so you need to get the SWM version to drive the HR44. You will probably need to run new cables to each of the additional two locations since your existing wiring will probably not adequately support SWM (and specifically MRV which is how the clients are really working). And since these coax cables are input to your clients you do not want to put any switching mechanism in these lines. You will connect each of the receiver/client's outputs via HDMI connections.

Now you need to figure out what to do with your Traveler Carry Out. It is totally incompatible with your HR44 and I, for one, have no idea how you would connect it to anything other than keeping your existing receiver active for use in your RV and run RG59 lines to each of the TVs for that.

Then you have the issue of campground cable. I'm not sure, but from all my reading you cannot mix cable TV and SWM (particularly MRV) with cable frequencies. So, I think the only way you can handle this is to setup a splitter in your overhead cabinet and run the cable line to each of the receiver coax inputs.

You do not mention OTA reception, but if you wanted to add that it would add more complexity as well.

So, given the configuration you outlined, I think you have quite a project on your hands. Good luck. I never realized just how much I simplified my life by just using a tripod setup in our RV and just running an RF of the front receiver to the bedroom. So much simpler.

I hope you share how this all works out for you. Many have discussed similar setups and never returned to describe how things worked for them. The lack of feedback leads me to believe that many do not succeed when they try to do this themselves.

How about my scenario of using an AM21 hooked up to the HR44 to broadcast OTA to the clients that way(would just need maybe one cable access to the AM21 for that,in addition to new RG6 3MHz coaxial cable for the Genie/client set-up),& then having one extra cable for Park cable to run to a TiVo Roamio & using ethernet cable(which he'd have to lay out if he already doesn't have it) to run to however many TiVo clients(2?) he could hook up to his extra TV's?

 

[rhusak]

How about my scenario of using an AM21 hooked up to the HR44 to broadcast OTA to the clients that way(would just need maybe one cable access to the AM21 for that,in addition to new RG6 3MHz coaxial cable for the Genie/client set-up),& then having one extra cable for Park cable to run to a TiVo Roamio & using ethernet cable(which he'd have to lay out if he already doesn't have it) to run to however many TiVo clients(2?) he could hook up to his extra TV's?

Oh MY God!
This is exactly what I was afraid of! It's gonna be a nightmare! I just wanna be able to watch TV!
Bob.. Will the AM21 send it's signals through the HR44? If that is the case than that would not be an issue.. Right? I could just use the existing cable? The only problem becomes the Carry Out.. I could live without the park cable... Quite frankly I mostly use those connections for my Carry Out so I don't have to feed cable through a window.. But the HR44 isn't capable of using that signal!
I was hoping that the wireless client that I had heard about C41W would solve that.. Could use the wireless from the HR44 and the exsisting cable for the carry out. But even that would require different receivers..
I think my brain is going to explode! I will see if I can find some info on the TiVo clients to see if they would be a better choice.. I hope I can understand what I find..
I really wish I could find an installer who understood all of this and who would take the time to do it right!
? Ron

 

[Bodo Fenrirsson]

Oh MY God!
This is exactly what I was afraid of! It's gonna be a nightmare! I just wanna be able to watch TV!
Bob.. Will the AM21 send it's signals through the HR44? If that is the case than that would not be an issue.. Right? I could just use the existing cable? The only problem becomes the Carry Out.. I could live without the park cable... Quite frankly I mostly use those connections for my Carry Out so I don't have to feed cable through a window.. But the HR44 isn't capable of using that signal!
I was hoping that the wireless client that I had heard about C41W would solve that.. Could use the wireless from the HR44 and the exsisting cable for the carry out. But even that would require different receivers..
I think my brain is going to explode! I will see if I can find some info on the TiVo clients to see if they would be a better choice.. I hope I can understand what I find..
I really wish I could find an installer who understood all of this and who would take the time to do it right!
? Ron

The C41W wireless clients haven't been "officially" released yet. They are still in test markets or beta testing. Talk to a Winegard Trav'ler sales representative(since Trav'lers aren't cheap) & tell them your situation,maybe they can give you an estimate on not only cost of installing the trav'ler,but also if they can rewire your RV for the Genie/clients. As far as TiVo,& park cable,goes,if you already have your RV wired for internet,maybe that will work for a TiVo Roamio(it has to be that model) & accompanying clients. You could either contact TiVo & ask them or go to a TiVo forum board & ask there.

 

[BobStokesbary]

Ron,

I think your most recent statement probably sums it up: "I just want to be able to watch TV". But, you have also added TiVo which says to me that you really want to watch TV when you are on the road, but do not want to be tied to having to be "home" when the show is on. So, one of the primary questions you have to ask yourself is "How much time a year am I on the road?" and "Are my trips weekenders or do I take long trips that last a few weeks". Quite frankly, if your answer to the second question is "I take trips that last a few weeks" I think your best option would be something that includes a Dish subscription. You can check at Camping World, but it seems to me that Dish is far more flexible for HD on the road and short-term subscriptions (you can turn it on and off month by month) than DirecTV who won't let you do that. If you only do weekenders, then turning your service on for several trips could be as expensive as a whole new subscription.

Don't get me wrong, I love DirecTV and am willing to shlep a dish around to support my habit. But, if I were coming at this from a fresh start, I would give the Camping World Dish setup a serious look. And I think you can use a dish like your Traveler Carry Out as your main dish even for HD with Dish.

Something to consider,
Bob

 

[BobStokesbary]

How about my scenario of using an AM21 hooked up to the HR44 to broadcast OTA to the clients that way?
As far as TiVo,& park cable,goes,if you already have your RV wired for internet,maybe that will work for a TiVo Roamio(it has to be that model) & accompanying clients. You could either contact TiVo & ask them or go to a TiVo forum board & ask there.

Two things to consider.

The AM21 is designed to take OTA signals and feed them to the receiver. While I don't have one to test, I seriously doubt it would work with a cable input. Ron was interested in possibly using campground cable input. He never mentioned a connection to his roof-top antenna. When you are traveling, this is a nice option when you are just there overnight.

As for internet wiring in an RV, it does not happen. Connectivity to internet is via a wireless hookup to the campground wi-fi or wireless carrier; there are no wired connections. It would be extremely unusual to find any RV wired for a wired internet connection.

 

[rhusak]

Two things to consider.

The AM21 is designed to take OTA signals and feed them to the receiver. While I don't have one to test, I seriously doubt it would work with a cable input. Ron was interested in possibly using campground cable input. He never mentioned a connection to his roof-top antenna. When you are traveling, this is a nice option when you are just there overnight.
As for internet wiring in an RV, it does not happen. Connectivity to internet is via a wireless hookup to the campground wi-fi or wireless carrier; there are no wired connections. It would be extremely unusual to find any RV wired for a wired internet connection.

Thanks for the replies Bob..
I think my head is going to explode! I would have never thought that this would be so complex!
It appears that I would be faced with having new cabled pulled in any case right? That is why the wireless C41W was so appealing. But it also appears to be "Vaporware" at this point.
Would the Dish system require new cable as well? Is it more tolerant than the SWM Direct stuff?
We travel a fair amount.. 3 months in Arizona for the winter and 4 or 5 2 week trips the rest of the year..
I use an air card for my internet service (Verizon) that works well..
I would like the ability to use over the air reception as it is nice to get local news.. I have an East and West coast feed on my subscription and local channels w when at home..
My current dish is not working.. I have given up getting the King Dome working.. That is the reason I thought about the upgrade to the Trav'ler at this time.. The coach has 3 really nice 2012 Flat screens that were installed in 2012 and I wanted to take advantage of them.. But it is a lot more complex than I thought..
Someone here replied that I should talk to a Trav'ler representative.. Where do you find one of those.. I know more than most sales people I have come across and I am really befuddled!
Well maybe I should just use a non SWM dish and be happy!
? Ron

 

[BobStokesbary]

Ron,
OK, part of this is due to my lack of understanding about what the C41W is. Obviously, this is the same technology that AT&T is selling now. (Since AT&T uses D*'s birds, I have long felt that they let AT&T introduce new products for about a year then incorporate them into the D* offering. This appears to be what is happening on the wireless receiver.) I can see the allure here to switch to that technology. So, you really don't need any additional cabling to the two other units. And that is nice.

But, you are faced with the decision of SD versus HD reception. Since D* uses the 119 bird for some locals, they are basically stuck with making the current slimline dish their standard. There is a smaller dish that will only work for the 99, 101, 103 birds, but that is not widely available and has not been incorporated in any of the dome technologies. I don't really know that much about Dish technology, but they seem to have been able to keep their satellites very close together or do whatever was necessary to require a very small dish for HD reception. Hence, their HD technology has been incorporated into some of the domes.

Then you get the SWM versus non-SWM technology. Unfortunately for you, the C41W units are locked to the HR44 which is SWM only. And here is where the real rub comes in. The ONLY SWM RV roof-top dish available today is the Trav'ler (now that MotoSat is out of business). And there are NO "carry about" solutions available for D* other than doing the tripod setup. (And even that is not fail-safe. I tried everything to get around some trees in a park in Bringham City, UT this summer. Since they were full, moving was not an option. I ended up watching their cable instead.)

I wish I could recommend someone who could give you advice on this. You won't get your answers from a regular DirecTV dealer. Most of them seem to be confused by some of the technologies already in play. And they certainly do not understand RVs. (In a stick house you don't have cable and satellite in the same installation.) And I don't really have any confidence that anyone at Camping World could help either. They sell product there, but I never get a feeling that anyone really knows that much about the more complex RV issues when I am in one of their stores. Like you say, I feel I know more than most (if not all) the sales folks there when I talk to them.

I'm sorry I cannot be more helpful, but it looks like you are going to have to make some compromises and you are the only one who can decide what you really want and how much you are willing to invest in getting it done. I think the most problematic part of this is the "carry about". Give that up, install the Trav'ler and with the wireless technology of the C41Ws you can put those near your other TVs and be done with it. Connect the C41Ws to the TVs with HDMI cables and just use your existing system for the campground cable reception. I would not even try to marry your OTA antenna to the HR44 setup. Just use your existing setup for that too.

Just some thoughts,
Bob

 

[Bodo Fenrirsson]

When the C41W wireless client does come out,you'll need 2 coaxial cables. The first coaxial cable is obviously for your HR 44 Genie. Your second coaxial cable will be for a little device called the Wireless Video Bridge-WVB. This will be the only other cable connection you need for your clients because it will send the tv signal wirelessly to your C41W wireless clients. As Bob suggested about Dish Network & a flex account,start a similar thread like this in the dish thread like,"advise for setting up dish in an RV" & you'll find that dish maybe more flexible for you(I have both Dish & Directv).

 

[schneid]

Lots of fact and some misinformation in the proceeding pages. You are trying to mix and match a lot.

Facts:

For HD you are going to need a Slimline. For an HD automatic roof mount you will need an Winegard SK-3005, non-SWM, or the latest SK-SWM. A 3005 has an SL5 LNB while the SWM is an SL3. H25's, HR34's and HR44's are SWM only. A 3005 can be converted to SWM with a SWM-8 mod. An SK-SWM will not receive the 110 and 119 sats. Without them you cannot receive Locals in some areas and some music channels will be missing. There is nothing called a "traveler carryout" compatible with DirecTV HD. Winegard makes a Carryout that will work with DirecTV SD only, not HD. The winegard SK line are known as Trav'ler's. I don't think an HR44 requires a WVB WHEN the C41W clients are fired up. It is built in. I think the WVB is connect to the Internet via one's WiFi router.

Nothing DirecTV is going to be easy if it involves a typical RV AV switcher. They just aren't made for HD. You really have to set it up like a home multimedia system with multiple HDMI feeds to an AVR then out to speakers.

In my rolling outhouse, I use a tripod mounted Slimline with a SWM SL3. Inside I have two TV's. Rather than screw around with multiple devices, I opted to switch multiple HDMI inputs and then split them to the two sets. The programming is mirrored. In addition to DirecTV, I have Roku, DVD, Android/PC HDMI in and Chromecast.

I would ask RV specific install questions here:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings/forum/38.cfm

 

[Jimbo]

Lots of fact and some misinformation in the proceeding pages. You are trying to mix and match a lot.

Facts:

For HD you are going to need a Slimline. For an HD automatic roof mount you will need an Winegard SK-3005, non-SWM, or the latest SK-SWM. A 3005 has an SL5 LNB while the SWM is an SL3. H25's, HR34's and HR44's are SWM only. A 3005 can be converted to SWM with a SWM-8 mod. An SK-SWM will not receive the 110 and 119 sats. Without them you cannot receive Locals in some areas and some music channels will be missing. There is nothing called a "traveler carryout" compatible with DirecTV HD. Winegard makes a Carryout that will work with DirecTV SD only, not HD. The winegard SK line are known as Trav'ler's. I don't think an HR44 requires a WVB WHEN the C41W clients are fired up. It is built in. I think the WVB is connect to the Internet via one's WiFi router.

Nothing DirecTV is going to be easy if it involves a typical RV AV switcher. They just aren't made for HD. You really have to set it up like a home multimedia system with multiple HDMI feeds to an AVR then out to speakers.

In my rolling outhouse, I use a tripod mounted Slimline with a SWM SL3. Inside I have two TV's. Rather than screw around with multiple devices, I opted to switch multiple HDMI inputs and then split them to the two sets. The programming is mirrored. In addition to DirecTV, I have Roku, DVD, Android/PC HDMI in and Chromecast.

I would ask RV specific install questions here:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings/forum/38.cfm

I've been waiting for a D* HD Carry about for ages now, something priced in a reasonable price point would be nice too.
The DISH version I think goes for about $700, D*'s version if they ever come out with one, I would guess about $ 1700. again.

IF they wanted to make something available that is automatic and hits the main 3 birds I am sure they could, but they tend to forget about the Camping side of things unfortunately.

I understand that the D* set up would have to incorporate both the KA and KU side of things, but come on, they should have something out available for those that want it and not for the money they ask for with the Winegard unit.

 

[acostapimps]

A little over $1500 just for the sk-swm 3 Winegard Trav'ler on Amazon and that's not including the mount ridiculous.

 

[Jimbo]

A little over $1500 just for the sk-swm 3 Winegard Trav'ler on Amazon and that's not including the mount ridiculous.

I agree.

IF they came down in price, like HALF, I'd consider it, also, I need one that can be moved around, not one permanent on the roof, too many obstructed view areas to have a roof mounted one.
Thats said, I see no reason the one they put on the roof can't be placed on the ground or table whatever and go from there.

 

[Bodo Fenrirsson]

I don't think an HR44 requires a WVB WHEN the C41W clients are fired up. It is built in. I think the WVB is connect to the Internet via one's WiFi router.

?The wireless Cinema Connection Kit connects to the internet via WiFi router,& it is unnecessary because the HR 44 can act as the CCK. The Wireless Video Bridge(which is a completely different animal) is absolutely necessary for when the C41W comes out because that is how they connect to your Genie.