Would you pay more for more HD content?

Phil T · Dec 15, 2003

I am unwilling to pay any more for HD. HD has pretty much been a bust for me.

In Spring of 2002 I made an agreement with my wife. If I finish the basement, I get a home theater along with HDTV.

Basement finished in May! I got a 61" HD ready Sony TV, Onyko surround sound, Toshiba progressive scan DVD and a Dish 6000. I added a 501 from a 27" bedroom TV.

The system has been great, except for the Dish HD.

After spending $700.00 for the 6000 and all the modules there was very little programming available. (I live in Denver, the low or no power HD capital of the universe) The HD pack and some additional locals finally became available this fall, after months of waiting.

The family is into DVD's and time shifting SD programming. Nobody watches the HD but me. I think the only HD program we all watched together was last years Superbowl.

I finally gave in and got a super deal on two DirecTivos. Those things are running all of the time. Everyone (but me) would rather watch something recorded or that they can pause when the phone or doorbell rings.

A 921 or HD DirecTivo would be great, but not for $1000.00 plus programming costs.

If the HD package costs go up I will drop it and sell my 6000. (probably not worth much now that 811's are going for $149.00)

When HD programming and recorders are the norm, and prices drop, I will reconsider.

Chris Freeland · Dec 15, 2003

E* will need to add several new HD channels to their HD package before they can justify a price increase or a 2nd HD tier of channels. Here is what I think E* should do as they make room for more HD channels, leave HBO-HD in HBO package, leave SHO-HD in SHO package, add Cinamax- HD to Cinamax package, add Starz-HD to Starz package. Instead of adding TMC-HD to SHO package since it already has SHO-HD add the TMC-HD West feed to AT150, this would add value to AT150. Also add Bravo-HD+, IN-HD and IN-HD2 and when available Sci Fi ED and USA-ED to the HD package or just include the ED channel's in the same package as thir SD counterpart. By doing this all 4 premium movie packages and AT150 would have 1 HD channel and the HD pak would have 8 hd channels and 2 ED channels. Each of the 2 ED channels would be with 8psk modulation and could possibly share TP space with 2 HD channels (2 HD + 1 ED per TP).

JoeSp · Dec 15, 2003

From what I have read here there is no compelling reason for E* or D* to put up more HD programming right now. Someone has to blink. As with all new products someone is going to be leading and someone is going to be following.

From what I am reading here, no one wants to pay for HD. Sorry guys but that is not how it is going to happen. Most of you paid a lot more money for your HD sets 2 years ago than those purchasing now. Some are lucky to be in a rich OTA HD market. Others are not. For either E* or D* to push that bandwith there has to be some money there somewhere.

You are not going to get HD for free. I will agree that the current HD package is weak. Adding another 4 channels of HD to it would make it a fair package. Having a tier where you could get every HD channel available without spending $80 is another advantage.

I did not say that if you selected the HBO package you would be losing the HBO-HD channel. I just suggested that those of us who do not want to purchase every movie package could purchase just the HD movie channels in a seperate package.

This post has really opened my eyes :shock: . You folks here really want something for nothing. Not a lot of ideas here but a lot of folks who are unhappy with the HD selections they currently have and not willing to pay for considerable more HD selections for viewing. I am in business--I do not waste resources on items that deliver very small returns. I do not make my money there---neither does E* or D*. I thought I would see several other positive suggestions to how we could influence more HD choices but what I see here is nobody wants to pay. Why did you buy that HD set? :?

Tony S · Dec 15, 2003

I think that the current HD package is already overpriced! I have a Plasma TV and I was pretty excited about getting HD. When I took at look at the E* HD package, I was not happy.

There are only 4 channels in the HD package. I am not interested in sports (ESPN). I can't justify spending $10/mo on just three channels. I don't want to spend money on channels that look good, unless they are channels that I would normally watch.

I am leaning strongly towards Voom.

ROLLTIDE · Dec 15, 2003

. I am not interested in sports

Then I guess that your in the minority cause that is the main reason that I got the HD package.

BOYCOTT26 · Dec 15, 2003

Joesp,
No one is saying we want something for nothing.We're
saying alot of us are already spending close to $100 a
month already on these packages or more.How much more
for TV SD or HD should we have to pay $200 or $300 a month
that's ridiculous,all we want is our money's worth.

BobMurdoch · Dec 15, 2003

HD takes up six times the bandwidth, so I don't have a problem with them being more expensive at this point. I WOULD pay more for more HD. I would probably ditch some of the lesser watched channels to make room though (TV5, RFI, and maybe the MultiSports pak......). If Charlie is trying to get more revenue per subscriber this is the fastest way to do it without us screaming......

JoeSp · Dec 15, 2003

Bob, You have hit the nail on the head. Most E* subscribers are already paying out the wahzoo for their SD. I also agree that the current package is weak. You can not really call ESPNHD 24/7 because they simply are not. HOWEVER, who was watching the NFL game last night. WOW--that's HD. They need to up the antee on their current package. Move it up to a decent say 8 HD channels and the 2 ED channels coming out.

Sorry about the off track, but if E* were to offer an HD package that gave me considerably more--say in the 20 to 24 channel range, ED included, for say around $19.99 or 24.99 I would drop to the AT100 and drop all my sports packages.

To continue, if they offered a SuperStation HD pack for $12.99 I would immeaditely drop the SuperStations Pack currently and pick up the SuperStation HD pack. And, as soon as my wife's TV goes bust she will be getting a HD in its place. There goes the LIL package.

Reason why I started this post is because I had a very interesting conversation with a Dish Tech. Seems Dish is looking into how to introduce new HD channels and a HD package seems to be the way to go.
We might have to go on a side sattelitte for awhile. There is discussion going on at E* as to how to do this and make money. I am hoping that maybe we can influence E* into offering more now rather than later. Looking for good ideas here.

Stargazer · Dec 16, 2003

I would also take the Superstations HD package in a hearbeat if I had an HD tv and HD receiver. If there was a little more HD content and the price of the HD DVR's would go down a little I would buy it. There just is not enough content to make it worthwhile yet, for me anyways.

BOYCOTT26 · Dec 16, 2003

Joe,
Now you're talking, I too would trade off some of the more
useless SD programing for some good 24 hour HD.I work
nights and am tired of coming home and finding America's
top 100 paid programs on every night.Thank God,they have
not put HD paid programs on yet.Though I'd still like to see
at least 8 channels in my present HD package like you
mentioned.This was a very good post you started here
BTW.

rad · Dec 16, 2003

JoeSp said:
From what I have read here there is no compelling reason for E* or D* to put up more HD programming right now. Someone has to blink. As with all new products someone is going to be leading and someone is going to be following.

There is a compelling reason, cable. All the major MSO's are rolling out HD programming. My cable provider can also provide OTA HD channels without the pain of getting an antenna installed to receive those channels, some of which may still not come in due to local conditions. Plus I don't have to spend a bunch of $'s to purchase a HD STB or major $'s to get a HD PVR. If I'm not mistaken, Charlie has said that his compitition is cable, not D*, so he really needs to look at what the MSO's are doing and make it worth it for HD folks to move/stay with E*. Yea, cable might cost a bit more then E* or D* but I can rent a HD PVR for $10 per month vs. a $1000 purchase (assuming that it ever sees the light of day).

JoeSp · Dec 16, 2003

RAD,

While cable is now providing more HD content they are doing this in a 10 to 12 megabit range. Sattellite providers are doing this in the 16 to 17.5 megabit range and OTA is usually always 19 megabit and up.

Awhile back D* was doing their HD in the 10 to 12 megabit range and there was alot of complaints about poor picture quality. E* currently is in the 16 to 17.5 megabit range. Here where I live the HD quality over cable is no where close to the OTA HD product. I think you will find the same where you live.

rad · Dec 16, 2003

JoeSp said:
RAD,

While cable is now providing more HD content they are doing this in a 10 to 12 megabit range. Sattellite providers are doing this in the 16 to 17.5 megabit range and OTA is usually always 19 megabit and up.

Awhile back D* was doing their HD in the 10 to 12 megabit range and there was alot of complaints about poor picture quality. E* currently is in the 16 to 17.5 megabit range. Here where I live the HD quality over cable is no where close to the OTA HD product. I think you will find the same where you live.

I understand, but most folks out there won't notice or won't care. Look what D* and E* do to SD channels now vs. when they first started their services. When I had D* when they first started and didn't have to put 10 to 12 channels on a transponder the picture blew cable away. Now today most folks are happy with the 'quality' signal that E* and D* are passing out. Over time probably the same thing will happen with HD signals, even D* and E* will have to cut back in order to keep adding channels to their service.

And still remember the all mightly $'s. How much would it cost a new customer, out of pocket, to get a new D* or E* system that includes HD hardware vs. the up front cost to get HD via cable? Most folks will have a much easier time spending the couple of extra $'s per month for that HD converter box vs $400 to $600 for a DBS configuration.

Chris Freeland · Dec 16, 2003

rad said:
JoeSp said:

RAD,

And still remember the all mightly $'s. How much would it cost a new customer, out of pocket, to get a new D* or E* system that includes HD hardware vs. the up front cost to get HD via cable? Most folks will have a much easier time spending the couple of extra $'s per month for that HD converter box vs $400 to $600 for a DBS configuration.

Click to expand...

New subs can get an 811 HD receiver as part of their DHP or Free Dish Promo for no additional charge, current subs can upgrade for $149 - $199 and current DHP subs can upgrade for just $99, I would not be suprised for D* to eventually match the E* deals, so what current or new DBS sub is or will be paying $400 - $600 for a DBS configuration? The only additional upfront cost for a DBS sub may be for an ota antenna for HD locals if they do not already have one and depending on where you live and what your needs are, an antenna will run what, anywhere from $25 to maybe $200 installed?

Granted cable has a slight advantage in having local HDTV without an ota antenna, however the majority but not all of the cable systems out their have a week lineup of National HD channels. Comcast Chattanooga here only has CBS-HD, NBC-HD as the only HD-locals at this time, ESPN-HD, INHD and INHD2 are the only National HD channels currently on their system. The Comcast HD lineup here does not appear to be much deferent then most of the cable systems HD channel lineup that I have seen posted for other places, with just a few exceptions. Both E* and D* currently have a slightly better National HD channel lineup then the majority of the cable systems out their. I do believe that once room is found on their satellites and carriage agreements can be worked out their will be new HD channels added to both E* and D* after the first of the year to better compete with cable. E* may be first to add new HD channels simply because with 8psk and a few more TP's currently, D* may have to wait until the new spotbeam satellite is launched and locals on 101 conus are moved to the new spotbeam.

rad · Dec 16, 2003

Chris Freeland said:
rad said:

JoeSp said:

RAD,

And still remember the all mightly $'s. How much would it cost a new customer, out of pocket, to get a new D* or E* system that includes HD hardware vs. the up front cost to get HD via cable? Most folks will have a much easier time spending the couple of extra $'s per month for that HD converter box vs $400 to $600 for a DBS configuration.

Click to expand...

New subs can get an 811 HD receiver as part of their DHP or Free Dish Promo for no additional charge, current subs can upgrade for $149 - $199 and current DHP subs can upgrade for just $99, I would not be suprised for D* to eventually match the E* deals, so what current or new DBS sub is or will be paying $400 - $600 for a DBS configuration? The only additional upfront cost for a DBS sub may be for an ota antenna for HD locals if they do not already have one and depending on where you live and what your needs are, an antenna will run what, anywhere from $25 to maybe $200 installed?

Granted cable has a slight advantage in having local HDTV without an ota antenna, however the majority but not all of the cable systems out their have a week lineup of National HD channels. Comcast Chattanooga here only has CBS-HD, NBC-HD as the only HD-locals at this time, ESPN-HD, INHD and INHD2 are the only National HD channels currently on their system. The Comcast HD lineup here does not appear to be much deferent then most of the cable systems HD channel lineup that I have seen posted for other places, with just a few exceptions. Both E* and D* currently have a slightly better National HD channel lineup then the majority of the cable systems out their. I do believe that once room is found on their satellites and carriage agreements can be worked out their will be new HD channels added to both E* and D* after the first of the year to better compete with cable. E* may be first to add new HD channels simply because with 8psk and a few more TP's currently, D* may have to wait until the new spotbeam satellite is launched and locals on 101 conus are moved to the new spotbeam.

Click to expand...

Chris, yep if you want to be a DHP customer you can cut down on the up front costs, but you end up paying a higher monthly charge to lease the hardware. So either pay E* a higher monthly charge for the box or the cable company, either way you're paying more. Plus with cable you aren't signing a commitment for a years worth of service to cut down on the initial investment. As for D*, do they have a national promotion for their HD package yet? I thought it was something regional so far, even then I thought you're looking at spending $399 for hardware? As for adding an OTA antenna, that as you say is an additional expense plus the wife factor comes into play, some don't want an old antenna up on the roofs. Don't forget the homeowners associations that will cause grief even though the FCC says they can't stop you. Don't forget the folks in an apartment that are at the mercy of their buildings management, you get what they give you.

Also, don't forget that some specials that Dish runs are not available to DHP customers. As a DHP person myself I can testify that there were a couple I wanted but couldn't becuse of my status. You also incure the rath of Nick whenever you post about DHP customers getting left out of specials.

As for programming, I'd feel better if Charlie said that they were in negotiations for Starz, Cinemax, TMC, Bravo but nope, he's got everything out there that's worth carrying. If I went with my Comcast system today I'd loose HDNet, HDNet movies, PPV and Discovery HD. I'd gain the two INHD channels and the announced addition of Starz and Cinemax to be coming soon. Frankly, after having Discovery HD since the launch and the HDNet channels I'd rather have Starz and Cinemax HD channels.

Besides all this, I'm just getting very frustrated with E* as of late. Hardware that's delayed, when you get it you spend hours on the phone with CSR's reporting bugs in the software or why isn't a documented feature working.

Paulus · Dec 16, 2003

ED channels

For the ED channels mentioned at 480p, isn't this just a de-interlaced picture which your HDTV should be capable of doing? Or am I missing something?

dbdsac · Dec 17, 2003

I didn't spend $3,000 on an HD ready big screen to watch SD programming. If I have to spend a few extra $$ a month to have the widest variety of programming with the best possible picture quality, I will. I did my homework ahead of time and I knew before I ever purchased my big screen that with the exception of OTA-HD, additional monthly programming cost was going to be part of the cost of taking the dive into HDTV.

James Long · Dec 17, 2003

dbdsac said:
I didn't spend $3,000 on an HD ready big screen to watch SD programming.

Neither did I.

HD looks pretty good downconverted to 480i and placed on a decent TV/Monitor. When HD is widely available and the displays are cheap I'll probably join in. But the bleeding edge of technology is not a good place.

I have a DTV tuner and keep track of my locals. But I have not seen anything compelling enough on HD to spend bigger bucks on.

JL

tconnors · Dec 17, 2003

My take is Cable or Satellite costs are they are already too high, they tweak you to death on misc. fees for equipment, locals, HD, etc.... In 2-3 years there will be almost no analog, and more than 50% of sets will likely be HD... it seems HD should gradually become "the norm", at prices no greater than they are now. Of course providers have no reason to upgrade to HD unless they can make a buck, so I guess you need to pay "something". $7-$10 for an HD box plus maybe $10 for ALL the HD content available (there is really a lot available, just not all offered in one place) might be reasonable. Why is Starz on D* and not E*? Hopefully more companies like VOOM will pop up and expand their standard channels, so costs stay down... the more competition the better. I wouldn't mind paying for equipment up front, just don't charge more for programming! Seems if a company started offering HD for free, they would get a heck of a lot more subscribers than their competition! This seems to be the direction Cable companies are leaning - although their rates are already high, so they can afford to!

dbdsac · Dec 17, 2003

tconnors said:
HD should gradually become "the norm"

...correct...that is when you will see the fierce competition for HD customers and as a result, the prices will fall.

Would you pay more for more HD content?

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