Zero Quality Signal--Have tried everything I can

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TryingMyBest

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Mar 28, 2010
32
0
U.S.
Hello All,
I am rather new to FTA, but having been reading extensively this past month and getting up to speed. I recently took the plunge, and have reached a frustratrng brick wall. I cannot get any signal quality, on any satellite (readings for quality are all zero). Here is the route I have traveled:

STEP 1==> EQUIPMENT
[1] SONICVIEW 360 PREMIER
MINI PVR DIGITAL SATELLITE RECEIVER

[2] TWIN KU LNBF
RF FREQ: 11.7-12.2 GHz
IF FREQ: 950-1450 MHz
LO FREQ: 10.75 GHz
NOISE FIGURE: 0.2 db
MANUFACTURER: DMS INTERNATIONAL
PART NUMBER: JSC322

[3] DIGIPOWER MOTOR
DiSEqC MOTOR SG-2100
MANUFACTURER: DMS INTERNATIONAL

[4] 90 CM, KU BAND SATELLITE DISH
HOTDISH 90, MADE BY DMS INTERNATIONAL

STEP 2==> INSTALLATION
[A] Installed mounting pole==> checked to make sure it was plum/vertical
Attached motor and dish==> Checked to make sure mounting pole, motor, and dish are aligned
[C] Locate my true south satellite:
I am in San Diego, California
Latitude 33, Longitude 117 West
Magnetic Declination +12

The satellite at 117 West is Satmex5, which is at (180-12 degrees)==> 168 degrees magnetic compass. I spent half an hour double checking this, with 2 compasses.

I then had somebody watch the TV as I tried rotated the dish up and down, around the elevation I am supposed to be at , which is 51 degrees. I also rotated the dish left to right. LNB skew is only .4 degrees, but I did try rotating the LNB.

Despite 2 days of tinkering, all satellites show 50-75 Strength, and ZERO quality. I even tried connecting the cable directly from receiver to LNB, thinking that maybe something in the motor was not good, but that did not help.

Here are the settings on my receiver:
LNB type: Universal
LNB frequency: 9750/10600
22 Khz :Auto
LNB power : On
Transponder 11740

I did try the LNB setting of Standard as well--no luck. Weather is sunny and cloudless.

At this point I am rather despondent. Can anybody kindly help me with this issue? Do I perhaps have bad equipment?

Thank you all in advance.
 
C

crackt

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 24, 2007
1,000
1
101w up north.
first off the lnb type should be set to standard and lof to 10750. set the motor elevation to 57 or your lattitude depending on the scale on dish bracket. then dish elevation to 40 - 5.4 = 34.6. that should get you close.

crackt out,.
 
LoTech

LoTech

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 22, 2009
498
0
Whitesburg, Kentucky
Also, your receiver might be scanning a TP that doesn't have anything on it. Do a blind scan to see if you can pick anything up. If you do, then you can compare to the values on Lyngsat or The List and see where you are.
 
B.J.

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
first off the lnb type should be set to standard and lof to 10750. set the motor elevation to 57 or your lattitude depending on the scale on dish bracket. then dish elevation to 40 - 5.4 = 34.6. that should get you close.

I agree with Crackt that you should have your motor elevation closer to 57, although I would suggest 56.4 for a 33 deg latitude.
However, make sure that the elevation scale is used, not the latitude scale. If using the Latitude scale, use 33.6 (or 33 if using Crackt's numbers).

Ie the 51 deg elevation number being used, is the elevation of a south to the sat, which includes the declination. You don't use this elevation in aligning a polar mount.

I disagree with Crackt however, relative to the 40-5.4=34.6 , unless these motors have changed a lot since I bought mine. Ie the "40" is the motor shaft bend angle, and on MY SG2100, that is 30 deg, not 40 deg. I have read about some SG2100 motors that have a 35 deg angle, but I don't remember one with 40. Anyway, the motor's manual should have some calculations that involve subtracting the declination from a 30 deg, 35 deg or 40 deg number. It that number happens to be 30, then use 30 instead of 40. And again, if I were doing it, I'd subtract 4.8 instead of 5.4, ie 30-4.8= 25.2 , but using Crackt's numbers, 30-5.4=24.6. Confused? Not surprising.

But anyway, if you set the motor with something close to the 56.4-57 deg elevation, then move the DISH elevation up and down while aiming at true south, you should find the sat. However, as mentioned above, you need to be on an active transponder or all bets are off.
 
Larobpra

Larobpra

Pub Member / Supporter
Feb 13, 2008
1,401
9
North of "Upstate NY"
Set up first without the motor, find your true south satellite, take measurements of the dish face or back mount angle, then you have a good reference of where you need to set up with the motor. That worked for me when I first set mine up, after trying it first with the motor and getting nowhere.
 
1ADAM12

1ADAM12

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 4, 2009
576
0
10-6 Gas Pumps
Like others have said your dish is not aimed properly and you must set your receiver to 10750 standard lnbf. you'll be running in circles if you take the motor off. E* AT 119 WILL GET YOU SIGNAL AND QUALITY TO START FROM, VERY STRONG TP'S. PEAK TO THEM AND THEN TRY 97w ALSO VERY STRONG TP'S.
 
C

crackt

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 24, 2007
1,000
1
101w up north.
I disagree with Crackt however, relative to the 40-5.4=34.6

i just googled the manual for the OP. the numbers i used were taken from the table on the last page. the last 2 sg2100 motecks i bought also had 40 in the manual. maybe its a typo.

crackt out,.
 
turbosat

turbosat

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 26, 2006
9,003
80
Oneonta,AL
Also be sure you have some active transponders in your receiver, for each satellite you are trying to find. Watching an active freq while turning you dish will speed the process, along with having your tv/rec out by the dish. Much easier to tune if you can see the screen while you work. Remember to move the dish slowly, some receivers take a second or two to 'catch up' before they display anything.
 
Keystone7

Keystone7

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 17, 2009
507
73
North Indiana
Hello TryingMyBest,

I have not been on the FTA for very long myself. I can only let you know a few things. I also have a SV-360 Premier. Sounds like you are using a motor with that reciever. I could never get my SV-360 to work right with my motor. I use a SG9120 HH Motor. I tried a CNX-Nano. This reciever works really easy with my motor. Once I aimed at my south satellite (87West), I was good to go. I always used (USALS) to aim my satellites. Alot of trial an error, but it will happen. Don't forget to take a small tv and your box to the satellite dish. THis makes everything so easy. I learned very quick, that you can't just leave the reciever on one transponder and move the dish. It takes my box 5-10 seconds to read the signal and quality once I move the dish. Then I needed to always highlight the transponder again and look for the signal. Hang in there, and it will happen. Once you are on the (ARC), your motor will be worth it. I use the SV-360 on the (Loop Out) from the NANO. That way the SV-360 works great.
 
AcWxRadar

AcWxRadar

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 26, 2006
4,575
4
40 miles NW of Omaha. Omaha?
...unless these motors have changed a lot since I bought mine. Ie the "40" is the motor shaft bend angle, and on MY SG2100, that is 30 deg, not 40 deg. I have read about some SG2100 motors that have a 35 deg angle, but I don't remember one with 40. Anyway, the motor's manual should have some calculations that involve subtracting the declination from a 30 deg, 35 deg or 40 deg number. If that number happens to be 30, then use 30 instead of 40. And again, if I were doing it, I'd subtract 4.8 instead of 5.4, ie 30-4.8= 25.2 , but using Crackt's numbers, 30-5.4=24.6.

i just googled the manual for the OP. the numbers i used were taken from the table on the last page. the last 2 sg2100 motecks i bought also had 40 in the manual. maybe its a typo.

Just for reference, I too have seen manuals for the SG-2100 motors with varying degrees listed for the motor tube bend. 30, 35 and 40 degrees. Like B.J., I have not seen an actual motor with a 40° tube bend, but I have seen it listed in a manual.

There obviously has been variations in the SG-2100 motor. Even the RESET feature varied (I responded to a post regarding this just recently).

Different production runs, different manufacturer's in different countries and some upgrde modifications (i.e. SG-2100 vs SG-2100A) may be cited for differences.

However, with a NEW motor, I would go with the angle stated in the manual that shipped with the motor. With a used motor that you might pick up on E-Bay or somewhere, I would measure the angle to be certain.

RADAR
 
T

TryingMyBest

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Mar 28, 2010
32
0
U.S.
Hello,
Many many thanks to everybody that posted and helped.

I did set the LNB to standard, 10750, which did nothing.
I also did a blind scan, whcih did nothing.

Regarding the physical structure of the motor model:
There are 2 adjustable parts. The first is closest to the mounting pole, which the manual told me to set to my latitude, 33 degrees, which I did. The second bracket attaches to the dish itself. The manual said to set this to "30 minus declination angle". The declination angle from the table in the manual was around 5, so I set it to 24.5. I did have a problem with this, as there were 6 large hash markings, none of which were numbered 0 or anything. I called the manufacturer, and was told each hash mark was 10 degrees, and zero was closest to the mast in the ground. I was told to set it to 2 1/2 large hash marks, counting from the ground mast, which I did.

What puzzles me is that if I did all this, and I am pointing at true south, shouldn't I get at least minimal signal quality? I made sure I was at true south, then played with the elevation through a very very wide arc, and always got aero signal quality (somebody was watching the TV indoors while I did this).

Any ideas what I should do next? I will try to post some pictures later today or tomorrow if that will help. Thank you all, and please, in the responses, please assume I know little and am not familiar with acronyms.
 
LoTech

LoTech

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 22, 2009
498
0
Whitesburg, Kentucky
I went back and re-read your original post, and DishPointer has nearly the same info as you.

Satmex 5

Elevation: 51.9°
Azimuth (true): 179.3°
Azimuth (magn.): 167.0°
LNB Skew: -0.6°

One thing I noticed that you didn't mention was the In/Out adjustment on the LNB. When I got started I had a problem with this and it took me a week or more to figure out why I was getting poor reception. I would start with the LNB neck centered in the bracket, and when you finally find a good signal, then adjust in/out a little to fine tune.

Another problem I had was that the elevation markings on my motor and dish were not exactly accurate. As mentioned earlier, If you have a small TV to physically take to the dish with your receiver, you can make better adjustments. One quick way to make small adjustments is to simply take your hand and push on the dish face (top, bottom, left, right not too hard). This makes small quick adjustments to the elevation and azimuth without having to bolt/unbolt everything. If you get a signal then you can unbolt and move everything. I know you're anxious, but getting it right the first time is difficult. You'll get it.
 
B.J.

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
i just googled the manual for the OP. the numbers i used were taken from the table on the last page. the last 2 sg2100 motecks i bought also had 40 in the manual. maybe its a typo.

crackt out,.

OK, thanks. I thought they were all 30 or 35.

Actually, I'm not positive which variety of SG2100 I have, I got mine from Sadoun several years ago. Looking back in the web archives, I see that Sadoun has sold Motech and something called Digipower. I thought that there were only Motec and DMSI versions of SG2100, but maybe there are three. I really thought that they were all pretty much the same though. My manual doesn't say whether it's DMSI, Motech, or Digipower, but it looks ALMOST identical to the web version of the DMSI manual, right down to the page numbers and where things are on the page. However the web version of the DMSI manual says 40-declination like you say, while mine says 30-declination. The MOTEC manual on the web also says 30-declination. These different versions of SG2100 are so similar, it's strange that there would be different shaft angles. I know that there were two different shafts available for these SG2100, but I thought that the big shaft had a 35 deg bend and the small shaft was 30 deg, but maybe the big one is the 40 deg one? I know that mine has the 30 deg bend. I think that the 30 deg bend shaft is smooth at the end and has holes for mounting a dish with a pole mount, but I think the bigger shaft has a little flange or something at the end, and can only use a U-bolt mount. Anyway, it's simple enough for the OP to measure the angle of the shaft where it comes out of the motor I guess.
 
B.J.

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
...
Regarding the physical structure of the motor model:
There are 2 adjustable parts. The first is closest to the mounting pole, which the manual told me to set to my latitude, 33 degrees, which I did. The second bracket attaches to the dish itself. The manual said to set this to "30 minus declination angle". The declination angle from the table in the manual was around 5, so I set it to 24.5. I did have a problem with this, as there were 6 large hash markings, none of which were numbered 0 or anything. I called the manufacturer, and was told each hash mark was 10 degrees, and zero was closest to the mast in the ground. I was told to set it to 2 1/2 large hash marks, counting from the ground mast, which I did.

What puzzles me is that if I did all this, and I am pointing at true south, shouldn't I get at least minimal signal quality?.....

Took me so long to write my last post, that there were a bunches of other replies since I started. So I see that you DO have the 30 deg bend. The 24.5 should be OK, although it's really better to be a bit higher than 25.
You should be able to get some quality with that setting, but as others have said, you need to be sure that you're tuning a strong 24/7 transponder on your receiver. Receivers generally have transponders lists that are obsolete, and if you have the receiver set on a transponder that doesn't exist anymore, you won't get anything. I haven't been to that sat for a couple years, so I'm not sure what transponders are good there.
One thing though, what you're going through is common. You probably think your hardware is broken, but the odds are that you're just a bit off on the aim still. Might help if you got a hand held meter to help, although that will probably guide you to the 119 DBS sats.
 
M

Musher

SatelliteGuys Family
Jul 10, 2007
101
0
TryingMyBest, first Welcome to Satguys:)
I read your first post and one thing jump out at me is the LNBF, why? When I got my system they sent the same one, DMS International Twin Ku JSC322-2 and the thing did NOT work well. Was only able to get up to 40% signal streanght and 0% signal quaility. I went an ordered a Invacom LNBF and now things work fine, just need a new motor.
What you might want to do is get a new and different LNBF. You can read what I was posting about this lnbf in Twin LNB in this FTA section
Musher
 
A

avg1joe

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 27, 2006
677
0
Southern Maine
Are you using the center of the bolt or the mark (or metal edge) to line up your elevations? My first time I used the bolt and didn't even notice there was a mark. I felt pretty stupid.

You need that tv and receiver right next to you while aiming the dish. Working with someone else is a great way to ruin a friendship or relationship but a lousy way to aim a dish.

Triple check that you have the right transponder selected while aiming. I will sometimes delete all the tps but the one I am aiming for from a satellite and then scan the others in later.

Do you have a clear line of sight or are there trees in the way? If this is your first time aiming a fta dish be patient. You are aiming for a really small target a long way away. You have to be really close to right on to get any quality. Tighten things down enough so you are only able to move slowly. Once you get any quality at all clamp things down so you can't move the dish and just lean on the four corners of the dish and note which way you need to go to get more quality. Then loosen the bolts and move that way.... Swear for a few minutes because you moved too far and have zero quality again. Finding it will be a little easier the next time and soon after you'll get the hang of it.

If you want a real challenge try to find your true south for the first time in a torrential downpour with high winds like I did, with me outside and my girlfriend shouting "still zero" from inside.
 
putney

putney

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2009
854
6
St Louis, missouri
A shot in the dark here;

The JSC322 also comes as a universal LNB, the JSC322-2

Yours is the standard version?
 
T

TryingMyBest

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Mar 28, 2010
32
0
U.S.
Hello and thank you again to everybody that took the time and effort to offer their knowledge and help. I have read and reread all the posts and saved them, as they have helped me a lot. What I find very frustrating, and borderline infuriating, is not the process of the setup or education, but the seeming lack of a coherent place where one can learn these things. For example, none of the manuals I received were of any use. The Sonicview receiver manual did not mention any of the advice about needing an active transponder, or the list being obsolete, etc. What I had thought, naively, is that if I point at a satellite, I should get (or not get) a signal--I was totally unfamiliar with the concept of transponders. Also, as mentioned, I looked at the transponder list on my Sonicview, and it does not match the list on Lyngsat.
I appreciate the advice on which satellites to aim for, and will try for 97 West, as mentioned. The box on my LNB simply says JSC322, so I do not have a clue if it standard or universal? No documentation at all inside the LNB box.

Can somebody explain to me the significance of setting the pole angle to (30 minus declination)? What exactly is that supposed to aim me at---I thought different satellites have different elevations, and all need to be fine tuned?

Lastly, are there any good sources of education for somebody like myself going through this setup, and not knowing all the things mentioned? I have spent countless hours on Youtube and the internet, and thought I understood what I was doing, but clearly I did not.

Thank you all again for your time, knowledge, and patience with me--all greatly appreciated !!
 
freezy

freezy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 19, 2009
959
0
Land of Sky Blue Water
wow, I thought my digiwave said just set to my latitude and on the other side of the mount it says declination.

2 terms for the same measurement like a measuring cup with cups on one side and ml on the other.

here's another trick...

get a magnetic mounting dial angle finder

34214.gif


1.take off your motor, mount FTA dish straight to the mast

2.put on a circular LNB. Then aim at 119w (close enough to straight south)

3.set your lnb to 12200???

(I'm certain your sonicview will already have these settings correct)

4. look for a strong TP like 12224

5. put your angle finder on the LNB arm, mark down that number

6. set your motor for your latitude (aka declination)

7. remove dish and remount with motor. Don't touch angle on motor!!!

8. put angle finder back on LNB arm. Set angle to recorded number. Point at 119w to confirm.

9. set motor to zero degrees east or west. (you might need to reset the motor's memory)

10. Line motor and dish up and point at 90degrees (straight south). nylon string helps sometimes.

11. go back to your receiver and go to the positioner control menu, select 119w, then select discque1.2* then select move West

tap remote with short single taps. It should take about 10 taps to grab 119w again then select store satellite position

12. put the linear LNB back on. LNB should be straight up and down (zero skew) On your STBset LNB freq. to 10700 for every ku satellite in your arc ( 58w to 131w)

13. to lock in other sats, set each satellite in your STB with a strong transponder (see the list on this forum) and using your remote go East or West and find those strong transponders, lock those positions, do a blindscan with a manual freq range of 10700 to 12000

*or.... learn how to use USALs which will save you from the need to hunt down satellites but you will still need to scan them


You will need to fiddle with elevation and skew a little bit afterward but this should get you in the ballpark
 
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