Dreamfox1, it is amazing that you are receiving C-Band from an off-centered LNBF on such a small dish 
I may have to experiment with a Mini-BUD someday...
I may have to experiment with a Mini-BUD someday...
Primestar 84E/BSC621-2 LNBF Experiment
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Dreamfox1 - Just curious - What bird are you pointed at?
edit: I see the motor now - you're not pointed at any particular satellite
I have been a huge analog tv fan for years, but seeing experiments like these shows me one of the benefits of digital tv with error correction. An analog signal on such a small dish would have resulted in a snowy picture, but with digital error correction, a perfect picture can be obtained with a less than perfect signal. Cool...
edit: I see the motor now - you're not pointed at any particular satellite
I have been a huge analog tv fan for years, but seeing experiments like these shows me one of the benefits of digital tv with error correction. An analog signal on such a small dish would have resulted in a snowy picture, but with digital error correction, a perfect picture can be obtained with a less than perfect signal. Cool...
Dreamfox, I too would like to know how reception is with the c-band LNB like that. I have a 36" that I'm able to pull some stuff in on, and have a conical feed horn that I need to 'modify' and try. But if your getting decent channels with a cut scalar like that I may have to try it.
I'd be happy just to find out if he can get the nets with it because if he can, I know what project I'm going to be putting at the top of my to do list.
Primestar / BSC-621-2 Tests
Primestar / BSC-621-2 Tests
Components:
Primestar Mold Number 1.0 X 0.7 –4 KU band dish and BSC-621-2 C / KU LNBF.
Conditions:
Cloudy Overcast with lite rain on occasion, temperature 77 degrees and 95 % humidity.
Using P* LNBF for baseline measurement. Satellite 121 degrees tuned to BTV Signal quality reading of 49%. Dish is 20 degree offset elliptical. Using P* elliptical / conical feed horn. Arc and Azimuth peaked with dish elevation reading 41.9 degrees at –88.85 / 41.35 lon & lat.
Replace P* LNBF with BSC-621-2 LNBF on standard P* arm. Peak dish elevation by moving top of dish back. Peak focal distance for KU and signal Quality reading is 34%, compares to 49%.
LNBF lens flush with inside back of scalar ring. No lens cover. 34% SQ.
Witness stick shows LNBF lens 7/16” further away from dish.
With lens cover on LNBF 35% SQ.
Switch LNBF ports to C-Band ( no signal )
Removed Signal Strength Meter SF-95C+ SQ reads 33%.
Standing on left side of dish arm in front of dish blocks signal in both C-band and KU band.
Peak LNBF focal distance for C-Band by moving towards dish by ½” to ¾”.
Run Dish to Galaxy 28 my south most satellite and measure dish face elevation 43.5 degrees an increase of 1.5 degrees to compensate for LNBF centerline which is now higher on dish arm.
When the weather clears up a bit I will start scanning the arc to see if other C-band and KU Band signals work with this setup.
Primestar / BSC-621-2 Tests
Components:
Primestar Mold Number 1.0 X 0.7 –4 KU band dish and BSC-621-2 C / KU LNBF.
Conditions:
Cloudy Overcast with lite rain on occasion, temperature 77 degrees and 95 % humidity.
Using P* LNBF for baseline measurement. Satellite 121 degrees tuned to BTV Signal quality reading of 49%. Dish is 20 degree offset elliptical. Using P* elliptical / conical feed horn. Arc and Azimuth peaked with dish elevation reading 41.9 degrees at –88.85 / 41.35 lon & lat.
Replace P* LNBF with BSC-621-2 LNBF on standard P* arm. Peak dish elevation by moving top of dish back. Peak focal distance for KU and signal Quality reading is 34%, compares to 49%.
LNBF lens flush with inside back of scalar ring. No lens cover. 34% SQ.
Witness stick shows LNBF lens 7/16” further away from dish.
With lens cover on LNBF 35% SQ.
Switch LNBF ports to C-Band ( no signal )
Removed Signal Strength Meter SF-95C+ SQ reads 33%.
Standing on left side of dish arm in front of dish blocks signal in both C-band and KU band.
Peak LNBF focal distance for C-Band by moving towards dish by ½” to ¾”.
Run Dish to Galaxy 28 my south most satellite and measure dish face elevation 43.5 degrees an increase of 1.5 degrees to compensate for LNBF centerline which is now higher on dish arm.
When the weather clears up a bit I will start scanning the arc to see if other C-band and KU Band signals work with this setup.
Attachments
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What LNBF?
Please provide what LNBF you are using and where you got the scalar ring.
Are the scalar rings still available?
I need a conical scalar ring to modify for my elliptical dish.
Please provide what LNBF you are using and where you got the scalar ring.
Are the scalar rings still available?
I need a conical scalar ring to modify for my elliptical dish.
C-Band Off Center LNBF
C-Band is pretty forgiving in this area. With the BSC-621-2 in my hand I am able to move it all around the dish arm and still get signal.
However, you loose KU band as soon as you move the LNBF 1 - 1/2" away.
I'm forming opinion that the way to do this is Invacom QPH-031 in holder and Standard C-Band LNBF offset. Offset either above or to either side.
Further testing should reveal.
Dreamfox1, it is amazing that you are receiving C-Band from an off-centered LNBF on such a small dish
I may have to experiment with a Mini-BUD someday...
C-Band is pretty forgiving in this area. With the BSC-621-2 in my hand I am able to move it all around the dish arm and still get signal.
However, you loose KU band as soon as you move the LNBF 1 - 1/2" away.
I'm forming opinion that the way to do this is Invacom QPH-031 in holder and Standard C-Band LNBF offset. Offset either above or to either side.
Further testing should reveal.
I have a BSC421. The scalar ring I have is actually a Prodelin feedhorn off ebay that I'm looking at modifying in order to use it on my dish. The feedhorn itself is quite heavy, so its going to take some thought. Right now I simply don't have the time to play with it much, but may after October once my wedding is done.
Satcom -
I put your pictures all into one folder so I can scroll through them and have a good look.
Unfortunately, some of the pictures have duplicate names.
What gives? Are you resetting your camera between picture runs?
Think I'll start over and prefix each batch with a name/number to keep them straight.
You've done some good work here.
Curious why you abandoned your clever C-band LNB holder?
Was it to just get some reference numbers on how much it mattered to put the C-LNB on top of the regular LNB holder?
I see you've documented the number of degrees difference between Ku and C-. (1.5º)
... and you've come to the conclusion that actual location of the C- can be anywhere around the focal point without much matter.
Looking through pictures posted before, by the guys using 1.2m dishes (4'), I see several have chosen to put the C- off to one side, and their Ku at the central focus of the dish.
One or more, put a circular off to the other side.
I can imagine how much weight their motors must handle.
Keep up the good work.
I want to see where this goes, when someone follows up with all the documented testing you're doing.
Very interesting.
I put your pictures all into one folder so I can scroll through them and have a good look.
Unfortunately, some of the pictures have duplicate names.
What gives? Are you resetting your camera between picture runs?
Think I'll start over and prefix each batch with a name/number to keep them straight.
You've done some good work here.
Curious why you abandoned your clever C-band LNB holder?
Was it to just get some reference numbers on how much it mattered to put the C-LNB on top of the regular LNB holder?
I see you've documented the number of degrees difference between Ku and C-. (1.5º)
... and you've come to the conclusion that actual location of the C- can be anywhere around the focal point without much matter.
Looking through pictures posted before, by the guys using 1.2m dishes (4'), I see several have chosen to put the C- off to one side, and their Ku at the central focus of the dish.
One or more, put a circular off to the other side.
I can imagine how much weight their motors must handle.
Keep up the good work.
I want to see where this goes, when someone follows up with all the documented testing you're doing.
Very interesting.
methodology
Sorry for the confusion!
In my post to Iceberg I tried to explain a rigerous method to collecting good data.
I will be setting up my own fabricated arm to compare it to what those who have gone before me have done.
As far as pictures are concerned you can use the "rename" function.\
Thanks for your input!
PS- on the issue of weight, the BSC-621-2 is very light weight and compares to the SNH-031 in that respect. The Schedule 40 1 1/2' PVC is very hardy especially with the bend in it. If you use a SG-2100 with Diseqc 1.2 you can easily offset LNB's and store position commands in software. This is an advntage over USALS.
Satcom -
I put your pictures all into one folder so I can scroll through them and have a good look.
Unfortunately, some of the pictures have duplicate names.
What gives? Are you resetting your camera between picture runs?
Think I'll start over and prefix each batch with a name/number to keep them straight.
You've done some good work here.
Curious why you abandoned your clever C-band LNB holder?
Was it to just get some reference numbers on how much it mattered to put the C-LNB on top of the regular LNB holder?
I see you've documented the number of degrees difference between Ku and C-. (1.5º)
... and you've come to the conclusion that actual location of the C- can be anywhere around the focal point without much matter.
Looking through pictures posted before, by the guys using 1.2m dishes (4'), I see several have chosen to put the C- off to one side, and their Ku at the central focus of the dish.
One or more, put a circular off to the other side.
I can imagine how much weight their motors must handle.
Keep up the good work.
I want to see where this goes, when someone follows up with all the documented testing you're doing.
Very interesting.
Sorry for the confusion!
In my post to Iceberg I tried to explain a rigerous method to collecting good data.
I will be setting up my own fabricated arm to compare it to what those who have gone before me have done.
As far as pictures are concerned you can use the "rename" function.\
Thanks for your input!
PS- on the issue of weight, the BSC-621-2 is very light weight and compares to the SNH-031 in that respect. The Schedule 40 1 1/2' PVC is very hardy especially with the bend in it. If you use a SG-2100 with Diseqc 1.2 you can easily offset LNB's and store position commands in software. This is an advntage over USALS.
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P* arm and BSC-621-2
Today I scanned everything C-Band H to H.
My hardware and sofware combination cannot recover Analog C-Band.
As I scanned I lost four of these channels that had signal levels in the mid range.
Also my software starts scanning before the dish motor gets to the satellite and there is the possibility that some are lost. We are working on that.
G17 has two strong channels. I will not list details here but will attach a picture.
Tomorrow, I will put the fabricated arm on the dish and repeat the testing.
Some time next week I should receive the C-Band only LNBF from Sadoun and start that round of testing.
Today I scanned everything C-Band H to H.
My hardware and sofware combination cannot recover Analog C-Band.
As I scanned I lost four of these channels that had signal levels in the mid range.
Also my software starts scanning before the dish motor gets to the satellite and there is the possibility that some are lost. We are working on that.
G17 has two strong channels. I will not list details here but will attach a picture.
Tomorrow, I will put the fabricated arm on the dish and repeat the testing.
Some time next week I should receive the C-Band only LNBF from Sadoun and start that round of testing.
Attachments
Hey Satcom1,
It looks like you have done a good job here with the 84e.
There are other very strong signals on G17 C-Band but they are the other polarity than the one in your picture, and I suspect the reason they don't come in is because the Horizontals on the 84e is cut off a little too much.
But you have piqued my interest, so I am going to give it a shot with a 1M Primestar round dish. I will have to do a little re-arranging on the roof, but I should have everything on the ground tomorrow morning. I have another reason for trying to get the H tps at least as well as the verticals because I have a possible lead on a couple that wants EWTN, but they don't want to spring for all the money a big dish and accessories will cost, so I might be able to give them what they want using a smaller dish and save them some money.
Thanks for the tips, pictures, and drawings!!
We like pictures!
It looks like you have done a good job here with the 84e.
There are other very strong signals on G17 C-Band but they are the other polarity than the one in your picture, and I suspect the reason they don't come in is because the Horizontals on the 84e is cut off a little too much.
But you have piqued my interest, so I am going to give it a shot with a 1M Primestar round dish. I will have to do a little re-arranging on the roof, but I should have everything on the ground tomorrow morning. I have another reason for trying to get the H tps at least as well as the verticals because I have a possible lead on a couple that wants EWTN, but they don't want to spring for all the money a big dish and accessories will cost, so I might be able to give them what they want using a smaller dish and save them some money.
Thanks for the tips, pictures, and drawings!!
We like pictures!
Linuxman-
You make a valid point. When Stogie gave me the P*84E I asked him about that, It also made me wonder if the original P* satallite channels were all one polarity. I am pleased that a SQ of 23 on C-Band equates to a 33-34 SQ on KU. A signal of 29 SQ on KU is just barely watchable. This on my PCI card, which means a STB will probably do better.
I guess a 1 meter P* offset with a standard C-Band LNBF with set top box will yield alot more stuff.
You make a valid point. When Stogie gave me the P*84E I asked him about that, It also made me wonder if the original P* satallite channels were all one polarity. I am pleased that a SQ of 23 on C-Band equates to a 33-34 SQ on KU. A signal of 29 SQ on KU is just barely watchable. This on my PCI card, which means a STB will probably do better.
I guess a 1 meter P* offset with a standard C-Band LNBF with set top box will yield alot more stuff.
Satellite meter problem
Found while testing-
The meter must be used behind the dish to shield it from creating an oscillation on C-Band.
If the meter is in front of the dish it will spray spurious RF into the dish and through the lnbf to the meter.
Not a problem with KU Band.
Found while testing-
The meter must be used behind the dish to shield it from creating an oscillation on C-Band.
If the meter is in front of the dish it will spray spurious RF into the dish and through the lnbf to the meter.
Not a problem with KU Band.
Attachments
Dish is 39 inches in size.
SG 2100 DiSEqC H-H Motor
C-band lnb is Panorama ER-861
SG 2100 DiSEqC H-H Motor
C-band lnb is Panorama ER-861
- Brand New; Special for Analogy and Digital C-Band Satellite Reception
- Extended Frequency 3.4 GHz ~ 4.2 GHz (ZCF-D21)
- Voltage-Controlled H/V Switching (13/18 V
- Superior Low Phase Noise for Digital Application
- Excellent D.R.O. Stability
- Low Noise Temperature
- High Gain Output
- Light Weight Design
- 100% Waterproof
- Super Compact Tooling
- Scalar Ring Included
- Best Solution for Multi-User System
Specifications
Input Frequency3.4 to 4.2 GHzL.O. Frequency5150 MHz (500 KHz @ 25C)L.O. Stability1.5 MHz (-40 to +70C)Output Frequency950 to 1750 MHzNoise figure13K typicalConversion gain55 dB typicalInput VSWR2.5:1 (maximum)Output VSWR2.0:1 (maximum)O0utput connector F female connectorOutput Impedance75 ohmsCross Polar Isolation20 dB (minimum)Image Rejection45 dB (minimum)Phase Noise-85 dBc @ 10 Khz (minimum)Supply Voltage11.5 to 14.0 V (vertical)16.0 to 19.0 V (horizontal)Operating Temperature-40 to +70CStorage Temperature-40 to +80CRelative Humidity0% to 95%Size168mm x 130mm x 190mmWeight680g
Can recieve
Can recieve
Intelsat 9-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.D venir digital
TV English
TV Latino
International
ENLACE
TBN-EJTV
Ocasional
525 English
525 Japanese
625 English
625 Japanese
Premium
TV English
TV Latino
International
ENLACE
TBN-EJTV
Ocasional
525 English
525 Japanese
625 English
625 Japanese
Premium
G-28/C---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MUX 1211
MUX1212
BTHD
AMG TV
PMI-PIT PATH 2
MUX1212
BTHD
AMG TV
PMI-PIT PATH 2
AMC 6/C-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PA CABLE NETWORK
TV 2
TV 3
TV 4
TV 2
TV 3
TV 4
G-11/C--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The World Network 2
World Network 2 AC3
TOC-DVIDS 1
TOC-DVIDS 2
SERVICE 2
World Network 2 AC3
TOC-DVIDS 1
TOC-DVIDS 2
SERVICE 2
Satmex-6/C--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Service 1
UTEG
SIS-JAL-RADIO-TV
GPO IMGEN
TRECE TV
SNG
RGC TV
TELE MICHOACAN
TV-NUEVO LEON
UTEG
SIS-JAL-RADIO-TV
GPO IMGEN
TRECE TV
SNG
RGC TV
TELE MICHOACAN
TV-NUEVO LEON
G-23/C----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HITN MAIN
HITN CH2
TVW 1
CST ENCRYP DLBY MPEG
CST ENCRYP BLBY DLBY
COX MPEG MPEG AUDIO
STO SD
HITN CH2
TVW 1
CST ENCRYP DLBY MPEG
CST ENCRYP BLBY DLBY
COX MPEG MPEG AUDIO
STO SD
G-16/C----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LESEA Network
Attachments
![is[1].jpg](https://satguys.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/attachments/24/24084-b6661d003385344f0427f68346a65913.jpg)
![f55d_1[1].jpg](https://satguys.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/attachments/24/24085-03e8a4699e77807b12d38c590efddf7d.jpg)
![0fc6_10[1].jpg](https://satguys.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/attachments/24/24086-b424a5f69d9264b962334a8168bbf215.jpg)
Dreamfox1-
Really good concept put into practice. Looks to me like the best approach to the Mini-BUD.
I've got to ask you, did you use a hammer to modify your scalar ring?
Really good concept put into practice. Looks to me like the best approach to the Mini-BUD.
I've got to ask you, did you use a hammer to modify your scalar ring?
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![pliers[1].gif](https://satguys.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/attachments/24/24087-ccaeac41988141b58bbd12fe33af91b6.jpg)
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