Check out the next movie tonight. Even if it doesn't look good, which I don't think is possible
, you'll still see one of the best ever.
, you'll still see one of the best ever.
TCM HD looks fuzzier than its SD counterpart
- Thread starter TNGTony
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"Once Upon a Time..." does look better on TCMHD as opposed to TCMSD. But not as good as the version recently shown on HDNet Movies which looks great. Or the one shown on Cinemax which I judge slightly below the HDNet version. Both still on my EHD.
Rather than hold TCM's feet to the fire, I would like to grant them as much time as they need to re-master their movies to HD while still turning a profit. TCM is an enormous accomplishment that a lot of people have good reason to be proud of. Re-mastering too many movies too quickly could ruin a good thing, for TCM and for us too; not re-mastering enough movies quick enough could get them in trouble with DISH Network, the way VOOM and the Smithsonian Channel got in trouble. I think for the next few months at least we should cut them some slack, and I'm happy that they made it into the channel lineup.
I do agree that TCM should be able to find a way to let its dedicated viewers know when a re-mastered movie is coming up without making its 'up-converted' movies suffer by comparison.
I do agree that TCM should be able to find a way to let its dedicated viewers know when a re-mastered movie is coming up without making its 'up-converted' movies suffer by comparison.
I just noticed your post about 'Once upon a time' and tuned in to it. Excellent! And to think I was writing a post when I could have been watching/recording it!
That's because it's NOT HD. TCM has not shown ANYTHING in HD since the channel launched. This info comes from TCM employees. Sometimes their upconverts look really good, but don't be fooled. There is no HD coming from TCM at the present time.
Once Upon a Time in the West looked great! Not as good as it does on my DVR from when it was on HDNetMovies, but for the first time, noticeably better than on the SD version. The Fuzzyvision*® process on the HD channel was gone from that movie, the River and Red Shoes, but the interview segment at the Turner Film Festival still has that Fuzzyvision*® cast over it.
But I tell that the difference in sound quality has me stuck on the HD feed even through the fuzzyvision® filters.
But I tell that the difference in sound quality has me stuck on the HD feed even through the fuzzyvision® filters.
In response to tngTony's survey question, I had thought the HD was A, B, and A.
The HD version has more definition and detail, less fuzz. I still haven't watched anything in color, but I would expect less color bleed and fading.
As I understand it, the Dish HD receivers (such as my 722) have an upconvert function for SD material shown on an HD set. Since the HD version looks better, my assumption is that the upconvert is being done by TCM using better equipment than is in the 722.
For a quick comparison of different HD movie quality, I just checked out the movies being shown on HDNet, HDNet Movies, and HBO2. The best picture quality was either HDNet or HBO2, the worst on HDNet Movies, though all 3 were very good. The HDNet Movies show (Eloise...) has some softness about it.
Regards,
Fitzie
The HD version has more definition and detail, less fuzz. I still haven't watched anything in color, but I would expect less color bleed and fading.
As I understand it, the Dish HD receivers (such as my 722) have an upconvert function for SD material shown on an HD set. Since the HD version looks better, my assumption is that the upconvert is being done by TCM using better equipment than is in the 722.
For a quick comparison of different HD movie quality, I just checked out the movies being shown on HDNet, HDNet Movies, and HBO2. The best picture quality was either HDNet or HBO2, the worst on HDNet Movies, though all 3 were very good. The HDNet Movies show (Eloise...) has some softness about it.
Regards,
Fitzie
:up :up
TCM is one of the few channels I actually enjoy watching movies on, their channel bug is not on there all the time and usually not too distracting when it is, and thank God they haven't started with the popup ads every few moments.
Just watched 2001 on the HD channel: It was just fair on the HD scale. I am now watching Close Encounters on the HD channel: Not even a "fair" rating...almost as good as SD but certainly not even close to HD. Maybe TCM HD should have been put on hold before it was sent out to us. BTW, the sound is crisper and has more depth on the HD side.
I've said this several times in this thread and I'll say it again, TCM is not broadcasting ANYTHING in HD at the current time. Everything is an upconvert. Some are better than others. I repeat, TCM is NOT broadcasting ANYTHING in HD at the present time.
I don't think "Close Encounters" would have looked worse if you were Mr. Magoo (remember him??-----you're OLD!) watching it cross-eyed.............
A VHS tape playing on a HD TV would look better. Unwatchable.JMHO
Ed
The way Close Encounters looked on the HD channel was similar to what inspired this entire thread. So it seems it's how each movie is upconverted since it is obvious (both by posts here and observation) that TCM HD is not HD, just zoomed/upconverted SD
Here is the final word from the TCM Programming Department in response to my question about their HD Content posted during a "People Behind the Network Forum" held at 15.30 hours, PDT, at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel on Friday afternoon, 23 April, 2010:
TCM currently up-converts all content on the HD feed at this time and will begin to feed actual HD content to the HD feed within the year. Their initial objective was to get the HD feed in place and then, as they can acquire HD prints from the studios; HD prints for the licensed content which they own outright, and HD prints for future programming; begin to feed HD and down-convert for the SD feed.
The reason for the long lead time is that some of the rights to the films are negotiated as far as three years out. While normal programming is done between 5 and 7 months out - they are currently programming general content for September / October 2010 - special circumstances, such as significant dates in history, director or actor's birthdays, or other events can require planning as much as five years in advance.
When the issues of "more graininess" in the HD feed from TCM, as stated by several members of this group, were brought up to the programming department, they indicated that anyone with HD should seriously consider properly calibrating their HD sets because tests run by TCM indicated a significant improvement in the quality of most product up-converted to HD by TCM.
[NOTE: Even the LG digital set in our hotel room was overly bright and the color was too hot. Because they lock down those controls, we had to get an engineer to unlock the set so we could properly adjust it and watch a decent presentation on the set during our stay.]
In later discussions about image quality and movie formats, TCM's programming department was very emphatic that they would never deliberately show a product in any format other than the format in which it was originally released. They are aggressively running educational spots on NOT stretching non-letterbox content to "fill the screen." In many cases, stretching non-letterbox content will actually cause pixilization and graininess on the viewer's sets because the picture stretch is not compensated by additional data but must fill an additional 60% of the screen with date intended to fill only 40% of the screen when a movie is transmitted in a format that fills only the "old square TV format."
One of the engineers also recommended disabling all auto-compensation controls built into many of todays new digital sets because things like auto-brightness; auto-contrast; motion control; and automatic room lighting compensation will actually make an HD picture look far worst.
In a later engineering discussion, Douglas Trumbull, the original effects creator for 2001 - A Space Odyssey, discussed the limitations of the current 24 frame per second shutter speed used in motion picture film and talked about how he is working on a faster standard which will probably be used by Cameron in the sequel to Avatar because at 24 frames per second even the newest digital sets, with the fastest processors cannot fill in the data where there is none in scenes where an object moves so quickly across a screen that there is no picture of it in sequential frames in the same second. Trumbull stated that the new digital projectors loved 124 frames per second and that television, because of it's initial analog life, was already standardized to a 60 frame per second standard and he has experimented with several different speeds including:
- 30 fps - no significant difference
- 48 fps
- 60 fps
- 72 fps
and several others.
Trumbull also stated that in order to have any kind of 3D movies or 3D TV with fast moving objects properly displayed, the 24 frame per second barrier would have to be abandoned because high speed objects simply cannot be displayed in 3D.
There were a significant number of new film restorations which were completed in time for, and shown for the first time to the public at, the first TCM Film Festival. Most of these will be released to the public shortly thereafter. Some are HD, some are SD, all are extremely well done.
Now that TCM is actively working toward HD programming, some of these may appear in the near future. Again, the actual timing of actual HD content is predicated on both LICENSING and PRODUCT AVAILABILITY:
Newly restored content released at the TCM Film Festival includes:
- HD print of "A Star Is Born" Garland, 1954 - no restored footage, shown for the first time to festival attendees on Thursday, 22 April - released to public on Blu-Ray 22 June 2010.
- HD print of original "King Kong" - show for the first time to festival attendees on Friday, 23 April, 2010 - Blu-Ray release date unknown.
- Full restoration of "Leave Her to Heaven" - 1946 - from Technicolor negatives with original dye transfer colors used as director shot in what is commonly referred to as "color noir" - excellent restoration - no release date. From Fox Blu-Ray release date unknown.
- Full restoration from Technicolor negatives of "North By Northwest". Now available on Blu-Ray and shown in digital projection to TCM Festival goers on Friday, 24 April, 2010 on 75' screen at Grauman's Chinese Theatre using digital projection.
- Full restoration of "Metropolis" - Digital - to be released in Blu-Ray DVD in future, no release date given. First public show will be Sunday night, 25 April, as closing for TCM Festival. This version contains approximately 30 additional minutes of content from the original production. No release date has been set as of this time. If a release date is announced at Sunday's screening, this thread will be updated with the additional information.
- An HD / Blu-Ray DVD of "African Queen" was released prior to the festival through TCM website and via Amazon. We pre-ordered and received our in March and I understand that it now may have been pulled from sale for a future official release date. Not shown at TCM festival.
If you have a fuzzy picture on your new HD set, while watching TCM's HD feed; including a pixilated or grainy picture, the first place to look is at the calibration of the HD set you are watching. I would then look at your cables, any switching equipment, and your dish alignment.
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Thanks for the comprehensive post: it must have taken you quite a while to compose and type.
BTW, should we replace "Dish Network Programming Dept." in your first and second paragraphs with "TCM Programming Dept."?
BTW, should we replace "Dish Network Programming Dept." in your first and second paragraphs with "TCM Programming Dept."?
Update: The first paragraph should read, TCM PROGRAMMING DEPARTMENT, not Dish Network Programming Department. Sorry, I composed this after an 18 hour day with only a few hours of sleep the night before.
