DISH has lost 420,000 subs so far this year

[comfortably_numb]

It's a problem for Dish and them continuing to lose subs!

I'm sure they'll be just fine. They seem to find ways to innovate. Sling TV was very forward thinking of them


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[navychop]

Hollywood has a way of "limiting" competition. Look at the union rules.

 

[dishdude]

Hollywood has a way of "limiting" competition. Look at the union rules.

Soon they'll figure out they can make more by selling direct, it's only a matter of time.

 

[MikeD-C05]

When I see some of these posts all I can do is shake my head, the same thing over and over. Complaining about DISH fees? Seriously??????? No one is forcing you to pay $15 for a Hopper, you could get a lesser receiver for less. And no one likes the fees of course but I see what cable is charging for fees, and so many including Direct also charging an RSN fees of sometimes over $7?? And often they are charging more for fees even without the RSN fee.

The fee structure is exactly that - a structure geared towards the user paying closer to what they are using. And for what seems like the 100th time, if they reduced the $15 whole home fee, something would be increased to replace it, sadly probably the package fees. Then those of us who are happy with a VIP receiver and paying $7 DVR fees would be subsidizing those who have the Hopper. No Thanks. And if someone is thinking if DISH reduced the $15 fee it wouldn't manifest somewhere else I have a bridge to sell you. It's a business model and each component is dependent on others for their cost. Now if DISH or someone wants to cut costs somewhere, either not carry some channels or charge for something they do not now, then they could if so inclined reduce costs somewhere else like the Whole home DVR fee. And I think we are begining to see a reduction in how many channels no one is really watching by providers.
And mirroring may well be something DISH must charge for. Even if they do not have to, I don't see how someone could reasonably expect free service in other rooms particularly if you can record etc from that room.

Tampa I have been with DISH 20 years next month. I never complained when the additional receiver fees were like $5.00 and then $6.00 for hd . I didn't complain when the dvr fee was $7.00 for the hopper then it went to $10.00 , then $12.00 and now $15.00 . Come on that is just greedy and a second hopper 3 , even if you could add it to your account, would run you $15.00 as well. Back in 2010 there was a huge push to realign all the various made up fees , like the Tv2 fee , The additional receiver fee and the Dvr fee PER dvr receiver , were all rolled into new additional receiver fees, based on class of receivers. This is where we got the $17.00 additional receiver fee for the second VIP 622/722/722k/922 dvrs. At the time I had about 3 of these paid for receivers in my house and had been paying only $14.00 for both of the extra receivers in fees. I had to trade them in for two other receivers ,to avoid the $17.00 extra fee x 2 =$34.00 + the dvr fee was like $7.00 at the time=$41.00 . This was insane gouging at the time. The whole reason why the FEES are hurting DISH in retention of their subs is perception. IF the subscriber perceives he is getting something of value for the fees , he won't mind the fee. But for most average subs , this is something else that nags at them each month when they see their sat bill come around. As I have said before, when you fees are higher than your basic programming pack , there is a problem. OF course there are some people who don't mind the extra fees because they have money to burn. I don't and I'm sure not many subs over all do either. Thus the loss of 420,000 subs so far this year.

In order to keep subs from churning DISH needs to look at cutting these fees down in order to keep what they have in the way of subs and maybe attract some new ones. DISH is trying to keep programming costs down, by cutting channels out that no one watches any way and of course all the locals disputes we go seem to go through about 3 times a year, with various local channel owners. That is half the battle . The other half is cut your fees down and or package them as a way to make subs buy bigger programming packs , they cut their fees down or they are free for additional receiver fees or they are greatly reduced if you sub to say the AEP. Years ago if you had the AEP , you got no dvr fee per dvr receiver ,which was the norm back then. This of course was done away with in 2010 and replaced with the wonderful $17.00 per additional VIP Dvr receiver fee. This is where DISH went wrong. When you are losing 420,000 subs by the end of 3rd quarter this year, why would you keep jacking your FEES up like the hopper 3 fee? It is like giving a drowning man in the water an anvil, to help him sink faster ,rather than the life preserver he desperately needs. OF course DISH can keep on with the FEES and fighting the programmers and wish in one hand and crap in the other and see what they get first. I know which one that will be . Because what they have been doing is not working and it hasn't been for some years now. Something needs to change because I am betting that by the end of 4th quarter , they will be over 500,000 subs lost for the end of this year.

 

[Gobucks]

When I see some of these posts all I can do is shake my head, the same thing over and over. Complaining about DISH fees? Seriously??????? No one is forcing you to pay $15 for a Hopper, you could get a lesser receiver for less. And no one likes the fees of course but I see what cable is charging for fees, and so many including Direct also charging an RSN fees of sometimes over $7?? And often they are charging more for fees even without the RSN fee.

The fee structure is exactly that - a structure geared towards the user paying closer to what they are using. And for what seems like the 100th time, if they reduced the $15 whole home fee, something would be increased to replace it, sadly probably the package fees. Then those of us who are happy with a VIP receiver and paying $7 DVR fees would be subsidizing those who have the Hopper. No Thanks. And if someone is thinking if DISH reduced the $15 fee it wouldn't manifest somewhere else I have a bridge to sell you. It's a business model and each component is dependent on others for their cost. Now if DISH or someone wants to cut costs somewhere, either not carry some channels or charge for something they do not now, then they could if so inclined reduce costs somewhere else like the Whole home DVR fee. And I think we are begining to see a reduction in how many channels no one is really watching by providers.
And mirroring may well be something DISH must charge for. Even if they do not have to, I don't see how someone could reasonably expect free service in other rooms particularly if you can record etc from that room.

Look if I rent a box from Dish yea I expect to pay a fee for that use in however many rooms we have it in. If I own a few Joeys why should I still have to pay a mirroring fee? It's fees like that driving people away.

Let me just say it's nice to have a service in PS Vue where My subscription is mirrored and I'm not charged for it. Now they may get stupid and add some dumb fees like that in the future. It would be suicide to do so. You would be just like the cable and satellite companies. Also the no DVR fee is nice too. So I have to watch what is recorded in 28 days Ok. I'm in the minority here but I don't need to have 4 external hard drives of shows and movies stored we might want to watch someday. So it works well for us.

A lot of you guys here are really into TV. It's a big part of your lives. Hey to each their own. My wife and I could care less. More and more people could care less. Eventually cable and satellite companies will see that.

I've lurked here enough to know a lot of you guys defend these fees and companies constantly. If you own stock in Dish OK I get it. If not I really don't understand the whole "fanboy" thing for a service provider. It's always well..... if you don't like it leave or well..... everyone else charges fees. Well as of right now there are some services that don't charge those fees and they advertise that. So shake your head all ya want. I shake mine every time these fees get defended and the usual..... everyone else does it comments come out. I guess that's supposed to make it right.

I don't mean to come across as an ass. So please don't take it that way. It's hard to communicate things on a message board over the net. Especially when your trying to be sarcastic.



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[Tampa8]

Look if I rent a box from Dish yea I expect to pay a fee for that use in however many rooms we have it in. If I own a few Joeys why should I still have to pay a mirroring fee? It's fees like that driving people away.

Let me just say it's nice to have a service in PS Vue where My subscription is mirrored and I'm not charged for it. Now they may get stupid and add some dumb fees like that in the future. It would be suicide to do so. You would be just like the cable and satellite companies. Also the no DVR fee is nice too. So I have to watch what is recorded in 28 days Ok. I'm in the minority here but I don't need to have 4 external hard drives of shows and movies stored we might want to watch someday. So it works well for us.

A lot of you guys here are really into TV. It's a big part of your lives. Hey to each their own. My wife and I could care less. More and more people could care less. Eventually cable and satellite companies will see that.

I've lurked here enough to know a lot of you guys defend these fees and companies constantly. If you own stock in Dish OK I get it. If not I really don't understand the whole "fanboy" thing for a service provider. It's always well..... if you don't like it leave or well..... everyone else charges fees. Well as of right now there are some services that don't charge those fees and they advertise that. So shake your head all ya want. I shake mine every time these fees get defended and the usual..... everyone else does it comments come out. I guess that's supposed to make it right.

I don't mean to come across as an ass. So please don't take it that way. It's hard to communicate things on a message board over the net. Especially when your trying to be sarcastic.



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Some of your comments are shared by others so I did not mean to single you out. The mirror fee has been discussed before, along with the fee if you own or do not own the box. It's more than a mirror though it is entirely possible DISH pays more to the programmers when there are additional boxes. The part about owning the box is bogus however because you are paying to use the software that drives it. DISH owns the software pays tons of money to get it developed so even on the receiver you buy DISH is going to get their money back and hopefully make money on it. Does Tivo allow you to buy their box and have no fees? Essentially no - to get DVR service, guide service etc you must pay the fee or be prepared to pay a large lump sum for lifetime service and then hope the receiver lasts long enough or that you still want the service.

Some people miss the point of being able to buy DISH receivers to own it and that it was never to pay less fees as so many assume. Owning is for those who do not pass the credit checks to be able to still get DISH service. DISH and the others may have to carry less channels, slow down development of newer receivers and cut other costs to lower the bill including lowering fees. At this time I don't think fees can be lowered or dropped without other things costing more, or do it and still offer the discounts they have been giving to existing customers. A $15 discount a month for two years has been available with guaranteed no price increase in package prices - that doesn't count for anything? That isn't like wiping out the $15 DVR fee for whole home?

DISH has been making strides in other areas, the discounts as noted, the Flex Package etc.. Will have to see if they can stop losing subscribers. My bill is less now than it has been in years and have not sacrificed hardly any programming so from my perspective DISH is doing something right. All per month, $9 less for HBO, $25 less for about the same channels, and I pay $3 less for a DVR fee than a non grandfathered subscriber. No increase in the package prices for two years so I am ahead by another $5 starting in January. On top of that I keep getting a $5 discount on the Movie pack. That's hundreds of dollars a year discount. That's why focusing on fees alone makes me shake my head.

 

[mwdxer1]

I have been with Dish since 1999, as I started with Dish 300. In those days, the receiver & dish were purchased and it was up to the subscriber to get it up and going. I wanted more variety, so I went with Dish. I did not want to go back to cable, as I was away from cable for 15 years then, after getting my big dish in 1985, but we were losing more and more channels with my big dish. As with everything else, the pricing has gone up a lot with Dish, but with it came many new channels, HD, and even an OTA tuner. I have always done my own work, after installed the big dish.For years I used the old 2700, and retired it when I bought the 211k. I added an HDD and an antenna for OTA. No fees, so life it good in that regard. What kind of ticked me off that Dish added the Flex pack and along with that offered channels I could not purchase with my regular pack of AT250 and they were not included. One reason I went with AT250, any regular channel would be added. But that apparently is no longer the case. For years I asked for BBC World, yes Dish has it, but I would have to buy Flex and then get an add on pack. Many less channels. Also the VH1/MTV extra networks that cable has offered for years are in Flex, but not in AT250. I went with a Roku 3 years ago and get BBC World, as well as other channels not available on Dish and probably never will be. As the programming on the Roku continues to grow by leaps and bounds (51 channels in one week were added!), I may decide to drop down to a smaller package in time. I am sure the programming costs will continue to increase on satellite & cable, so I may be a cord cutter in the future. Don't get me wrong, I still like Dish and I am happy they are adding more of the diginet fare (FETV-COZI, Laff, Get TV, Grit, Justice TV, etc).

 

[navychop]

You have derived a benefit from being able to view in an additional room, or time shift. Perfectly reasonable that you should pay for that.

To say it doesn't cost Dish any more does not hold water. People stealing cable said it didn't cost the cableco more, and they hadn't lost any revenue, because the thief wild not have subscribed anyway. Same for pilfered software. And we all know how that worked out.

Something in the law about that. Deriving a benefit unjustly is wrong, regardless of proving specific "harm" to the owner.

 

[rvvaquero]

Look if I rent a box from Dish yea I expect to pay a fee for that use in however many rooms we have it in. If I own a few Joeys why should I still have to pay a mirroring fee? It's fees like that driving people away.

Let me just say it's nice to have a service in PS Vue where My subscription is mirrored and I'm not charged for it. Now they may get stupid and add some dumb fees like that in the future. It would be suicide to do so. You would be just like the cable and satellite companies. Also the no DVR fee is nice too. So I have to watch what is recorded in 28 days Ok. I'm in the minority here but I don't need to have 4 external hard drives of shows and movies stored we might want to watch someday. So it works well for us.

A lot of you guys here are really into TV. It's a big part of your lives. Hey to each their own. My wife and I could care less. More and more people could care less. Eventually cable and satellite companies will see that.

I've lurked here enough to know a lot of you guys defend these fees and companies constantly. If you own stock in Dish OK I get it. If not I really don't understand the whole "fanboy" thing for a service provider. It's always well..... if you don't like it leave or well..... everyone else charges fees. Well as of right now there are some services that don't charge those fees and they advertise that. So shake your head all ya want. I shake mine every time these fees get defended and the usual..... everyone else does it comments come out. I guess that's supposed to make it right.

I don't mean to come across as an ass. So please don't take it that way. It's hard to communicate things on a message board over the net. Especially when your trying to be sarcastic.



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I'm neither a critic of DISH nor a Fanboy. I simply buy a service which suits my needs.

You say that you are not "really into TV", then you don't need all the Joeys and mirroring, etc. I have had DISH service for many years and never paid a monthly fee. Now, I have a VIP211K and paid a one time fee of $40 for dvr functionality. It works great for me. For those who are "really into TV", I'm glad that there are new and improved features and equipment available to them which serve their advanced needs. I'm also glad that they are the ones paying for staying on the cutting edge, and not myself.

I'm glad that you found something else which works for you. When DISH no longer serves my purpose, I shall find something else also.

I didn't think you were being an ass, just stating your opinion. I hope you feel free to do so in the future.

 

[Gobucks]

You have derived a benefit from being able to view in an additional room, or time shift. Perfectly reasonable that you should pay for that.

To say it doesn't cost Dish any more does not hold water. People stealing cable said it didn't cost the cableco more, and they hadn't lost any revenue, because the thief wild not have subscribed anyway. Same for pilfered software. And we all know how that worked out.

Something in the law about that. Deriving a benefit unjustly is wrong, regardless of proving specific "harm" to the owner.

Well we have 4 rooms that run PS Vue. Somehow they manage to have no mirroring fees. So it does hold some water. They base their service on no fees. Its kinda nice.

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[Gobucks]

I'm neither a critic of DISH nor a Fanboy. I simply buy a service which suits my needs.

You say that you are not "really into TV", then you don't need all the Joeys and mirroring, etc. I have had DISH service for many years and never paid a monthly fee. Now, I have a VIP211K and paid a one time fee of $40 for dvr functionality. It works great for me. For those who are "really into TV", I'm glad that there are new and improved features and equipment available to them which serve their advanced needs. I'm also glad that they are the ones paying for staying on the cutting edge, and not myself.

I'm glad that you found something else which works for you. When DISH no longer serves my purpose, I shall find something else also.

I didn't think you were being an ass, just stating your opinion. I hope you feel free to do so in the future.

I'm just not into TV as much as some here. What I mean is we would have no problem dropping it all together if prices keep rising.

Don't think I'm against Dish. Loved the Hopper and the service. Just don't like the $5 a year price hikes then the $1 to $2 fee hike every two or so years. It adds up year after year. Something has got to give. Hopefully cable and satellite figures that out.

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[Hall]

If not I really don't understand the whole "fanboy" thing for a service provider.

Take a look at your amorous posts about the PS Vue and you'll get a better understanding of "fanboy".

 

[Gobucks]

Take a look at your amorous posts about the PS Vue and you'll get a better understanding of "fanboy".

I don't defend it. I would drop it in a heartbeat if I had too. I talk about it because finally someone who doesn't charge fees out the butt. Some here never thought that would ever happen.

I enjoy what I have but I don't treat it like Its a sports team like some here. My point with mentioning it is look a service with none of the fees. Somehow they made it work.

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[rvvaquero]

Something has got to give.

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As I've stated here before, it's really pretty simple. When people are no longer willing to pay the price, DISH will no longer be able to charge the price. Supply and demand.

This industry is always changing, has been for all of my almost 70 years. I remember when I thought that it just couldn't get any better than having three full service channels to watch on TV. Then, cable came along. Then, satellite. Now, internet based TV.

Right now, people are migrating to internet based programming. Maybe, that's because it is more of the "al la carte" service so many have sought and enjoy. Maybe, it's just a fad. Who knows? I do know that eventually the dollars will even out. We'll be paying as much, or more, for the same old "I Love Lucy" that we have been. I take comfort in believing that both cable and satellite services will probably still exist for the remainder of my lifetime so I'll always be able to get my fix, even without broadband service.

 

[Yespage]

Well we have 4 rooms that run PS Vue. Somehow they manage to have no mirroring fees. So it does hold some water. They base their service on no fees. Its kinda nice.

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Water is wet, shall we complain about that too?! PS Vue and Sat are two completely different distributions of television. PS Vue doesn't need to create a single box for people to use to watch their streams... which probably explains the lower prices! Dish has fees. Dish's fees are below the average for Sat/Cable.

 

[Gobucks]

Water is wet, shall we complain about that too?! PS Vue and Sat are two completely different distributions of television. PS Vue doesn't need to create a single box for people to use to watch their streams... which probably explains the lower prices! Dish has fees. Dish's fees are below the average for Sat/Cable.

Sorry. I guess I made a mistake coming back here thinking you can have a conversation. Yes water is wet no complaints. Sorry I have opinions and wanted to share my experiences with a different service. I guess that still gets some of you all worked up. Nothing has changed here. Just remember it's only TV. Nothing to get angry over. Have a nice day everyone.

 

[Tampa8]

Water is wet, shall we complain about that too?! PS Vue and Sat are two completely different distributions of television. PS Vue doesn't need to create a single box for people to use to watch their streams... which probably explains the lower prices! Dish has fees. Dish's fees are below the average for Sat/Cable.

After thinking about it I see you posted essentially what I was going to. Online streaming isn't building and launching satellites, has no consumer equipment they must make, maintain, replace, install. In fact shouldn't PSVue cost even less? Obviously Streaming is great for some people but much less than satisfying for others. Trying to compare fees DISH has (Some of the lowest overall) to online streaming isn't a comparison of equal services.

It's only fair that I add I do stream shows or movies that are produced by Amazon and at times others that are part of Prime. The PQ is excellent and a couple of their shows like Grand Tour (I can't wait for each episode lol) in 4K HDR has terrific PQ. I also get excellent PQ from HBOGO.

 

[Mochuf]

The typical consumer couldn't care less what a providers costs are. All they care about is the price they pay. While you may feel that iptv and satellite aren't equal services, they are competitors. Which service is shrinking and which is growing?

 

[Yespage]

The typical consumer couldn't care less what a providers costs are. All they care about is the price they pay. While you may feel that iptv and satellite aren't equal services, they are competitors.

But comparing the two prices, when even the services provided are equivalent isn't apples to apples. One of the big things driving prices is the DVR. The new IPTV services have restricted DVR use, 28 days. So that means the media costs less because the content provider knows that you can't record something and then stop subscribing to their content. In fact, you may no longer be able to even watch that content after a month.

The biggest part is the cheap millenials that want access to everything for nothing. I'm hardly an old dog, but remember the days of no streaming. People like IPTV because they can share (ie steal) content amongst themselves. You can't do that with Cable or Sat. That was the one thing that shocked me with WWE Network. They offer it for $10, which is a steal as to what the PPVs cost... and people still shared accounts!

Regardless, the IPTV is growing, as will the costs for IPTV. And Dish, while they have fees, are some of the lowest among the industry (for households that don't have 5 receivers), and include some of the best equipment available.

 

[comfortably_numb]

People like IPTV because they can share (ie steal) content amongst themselves.

Hogwash. I don't know of anyone who uses an IPTV service and shares or steals content. Most of these people use a Roku to stream, so how would they offload the content, even if they wanted to? Usage of IPTV is driven by convenience, access, and price. Now if you're talking about sharing usernames/passwords, sure people do that. But people also have multiple satellite dishes with multiple receivers at different addresses



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