DISH has lost 420,000 subs so far this year

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Hogwash. I don't know of anyone who uses an IPTV service and shares or steals content. Most of these people use a Roku to stream, so how would they offload the content, even if they wanted to? Usage of IPTV is driven by convenience, access, and price. Now if you're talking about sharing usernames/passwords, sure people do that.
Yeah... and that is pretty much taking a service without paying for it. I can see why some people would prefer free streaming over paying for Cable or Sat.
But people also have multiple satellite dishes with multiple receivers at different addresses
Yeah, that is probably not as common.
 

MikeD-C05

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Well we have 4 rooms that run PS Vue. Somehow they manage to have no mirroring fees. So it does hold some water. They base their service on no fees. Its kinda nice.

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Believe it or not back in the early part of the 2000s Charlie Ergen did too. He even said " We let you tape-less record for nothing when the other guy charges $9.00 for it." This was when the 501 series of Pvrs hit the market. He was right ,because DISH grew like 2 million subs in one year ,due to their low fee structure and the No pvr/dvr fees. This in addition to their low priced programming helped them grow at a good rate. Now we are in reverse in growth. We have been either 14 million or under for years and years. When your company isn't growing , why would you keep creating and increasing your FEEs? If you want to grow your company and keep it making money for your share holders then attracting new subs , retaining them as well would lead to more profits for your company. Obviously their profits are now just slightly over last year, so the days of "well we are still making profits so who cares if we lose subs" is just about over.

DISH recognizes that there is a problem with hikes by the channel programmers and they have tried to address it with FLEX pack. A very good start , but the other half of the equation that they fully control is their fees and the amount of them. IF you want to solve that you could reduce them across the board and advertise this to the public as DISH's promise to help keep their service the " low priced leader " that they once claimed they were. It would definitely give them more subs and would definitely make existing subs want to stay. They could even introduce a loyalty program that would reward subs for every year that they remain past their two year commitment a fee would be eliminated. Start with the additional receiver fee for one receiver and each year eliminate one of them till you are at your dvr fee , then boom no more dvr fees and you are basically just paying for programming. Insurance companies do discounts that go up each year you stay , so why not sat companies? Then the subs would want to buy more programming since the fees are now gone. This would eliminate the horrible churn rate at DISH and would definitely make more people look at DISH.

If you are looking at the BIG Picture and not just your own circumstance , it isn't hard to see why DISH should attack both programming increases and reduce their fee and or drop them with each year you stay on with DISH. This would help grow the company and keep churn way down. I'm sure that losing 420,000 subs in 3 quarters isn't a very positive thing for a company to face and even harder to explain to share holders. This is the way I see Charlie addressing this two part problem to not only save his company long term, but to grow it even more in the future. Let loyalty credits work to grow your company, then the subs are as invested in the company as those who run it.
:hatsoff
 

comfortably_numb

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Believe it or not back in the early part of the 2000s Charlie Ergen did too. He even said " We let you tape-less record for nothing when the other guy charges $9.00 for it." This was when the 501 series of Pvrs hit the market. He was right ,because DISH grew like 2 million subs in one year ,due to their low fee structure and the No pvr/dvr fees. This in addition to their low priced programming helped them grow at a good rate. Now we are in reverse in growth. We have been either 14 million or under for years and years. When your company isn't growing , why would you keep creating and increasing your FEEs? If you want to grow your company and keep it making money for your share holders then attracting new subs , retaining them as well would lead to more profits for your company. Obviously their profits are now just slightly over last year, so the days of "well we are still making profits so who cares if we lose subs" is just about over.

DISH recognizes that there is a problem with hikes by the channel programmers and they have tried to address it with FLEX pack. A very good start , but the other half of the equation that they fully control is their fees and the amount of them. IF you want to solve that you could reduce them across the board and advertise this to the public as DISH's promise to help keep their service the " low priced leader " that they once claimed they were. It would definitely give them more subs and would definitely make existing subs want to stay. They could even introduce a loyalty program that would reward subs for every year that they remain past their two year commitment a fee would be eliminated. Start with the additional receiver fee for one receiver and each year eliminate one of them till you are at your dvr fee , then boom no more dvr fees and you are basically just paying for programming. Insurance companies do discounts that go up each year you stay , so why not sat companies? Then the subs would want to buy more programming since the fees are now gone. This would eliminate the horrible churn rate at DISH and would definitely make more people look at DISH.

If you are looking at the BIG Picture and not just your own circumstance , it isn't hard to see why DISH should attack both programming increases and reduce their fee and or drop them with each year you stay on with DISH. This would help grow the company and keep churn way down. I'm sure that losing 420,000 subs in 3 quarters isn't a very positive thing for a company to face and even harder to explain to share holders. This is the way I see Charlie addressing this two part problem to not only save his company long term, but to grow it even more in the future. Let loyalty credits work to grow your company, then the subs are as invested in the company as those who run it.
:hatsoff

We're all armchair CEO's and CFO's here, but nobody really knows what is said in the board meetings that decide which direction the company wants to take, you know? So for us, it's all just spitballin'.


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richyrich

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OK, take it from me, DISH is their own box, flavor. But their Dealer's and Contract word is what the costlyness is, and their monthly fee's for the best or larger paks is what went up to qualify their losses or caused any loss of viewer's, subs. We already knew the price of dish was less; the cost of a sling tv plus my internet; plus all of them channels I just got to have available. If you look at the small channel pak compared to larger ones; it is the tier that has what I want and must choose to be able to watch the program's I want; and after only 2 year's; all of them doubled in price; as well as the programming I like and watch the most; as does the rest of the US. The only other choice is now competing better; as they have also doubled their prices; mostly by servicing the accounting of DVR/type saving as their services; plus internet tv. Meanwhile, the free tv available over the air and locally is into a basic cable pak all by itself (20+ channel's); and I can build a cable system for your home that has hundreds and hundreds more channel's that are received for free; plus have 10000+ more IPTV channels without any ability to stop people; or even require people to pay for any services of these type channels; and the channels themselves want you to record; rewind; ff; and save them for free!
DISH NETWORKS charges for every bit of their services (and every package they offer is their own), and you cannot own their STB's either; but can rent them; and pay a ,monthly fee to keep them working and maintain them is also doubling their cost's; they need more money; they need more subs. They have replaced their boxes in people/subs homes for 20 years now; every 2 or three years no matter what that cost is...they were paid thousands of dollar's in the old day's when there was money being paid by these "homes" and "gardens"; today they only get free boxes and new dishes that they pay a monthly fee for uses the box has. If you could use the internet for PPV like you use dish or diretv; it will cost alot more than 200 per month for what you want to watch. How much tv do you need?
 
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Rixos

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Dish needs someone like tmobile ceo john legere to shake up the industry...


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bobvick

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I think it will happen. For starters, just recently, Fairpoint and Consolidated Communications announced a merger, now forming a company covering 42 states and MANY rural areas. I think we'll see wired and wireless build-out happening as smaller telco's merge and have more available resources. Or maybe I'm just dreaming, who knows.


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I hope you are right and I am wrong. I was just reading an article about how growth for consumer broadband was nearly non-existent and beginning to shrink with the Teleco's even AT&T and Verizion (their landline networks) it was explaining how cable had all of the growth in areas where cable was available and how the telecos had basically stopped any investment in their copper networks.
AT&T and Verzion are focused on wireless, CenturyLink and Windstream, are focused on enterprise.
CenturyLink is my provider, back when they were small and primarily rural, as CenturyTel, they were an excellent company, excellent service, continually upgrading the rural areas. In 2008, we finally got DSL, it was initially 1.5/256 service, they bumped it a little to 4.0/512, that was 4 years ago. For 2 years the DSLAM terminal that serves my road has been on exhaust and they have absolutely no plans to fix it, even though they got $500 million from CAF2 funds to get at least 10Mbps service to rural locations, and my area was supposed to be one of the areas that they were to upgrade.
I think they used that $500 million to help them in their $23 billion stock and cash deal for Level 3 Networks rather than upgrading rural lines. I doubt the FairPoint/Consolidated deal will end up much better.
 

stormrider22

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Just to throw in a few comments in here - we don't have Dish service but I recently called our provider (Comcast) to see what kind of deal they could offer. That turned into a very interesting conversation with the (very nice I must say) CS rep, but she mentioned in Comcast's defense that the X1 is the only Emmy nominated DVR, that the X1 has the Top 100 shows preloaded, too, as well as a very large On Demand catalog and that Dish has had channel blackouts but Comcast never has (her words not mine). I remain convinced that the Hopper 3 (and frankly the Hopper 2) are superior to the X1, but it goes to show what you're getting with Dish for those fees - after all that's $10/mo for a new subscriber and $15/mo without promotion as far as I can tell.

Following that, a few days later, we went to a Comcast Store and were asking about fees, and were told that if you want an X1 non-DVR it's $10/mo per room (fiorst reciever free), if you want a DTA to add in just your local channels it's $4/mo each, and if you want an X1, if you want the DVR, it's $10/mo + a $10/mo HD Technology Fee. Oh, and they charge $80 per outlet if, like us, your house isn't wired in multiple rooms and you need to add one (as they don't offer something like the Wireless Joey). Don't forget too that you're paying a Broadcast TV Fee that's gone from $5 -> $7 for the new year. As well as an RSN Fee that was $3 and is going to be $5.

My point is, I can understand people being upset with fees, but it genuinely looks like at least you're getting more out of those fees. Be it extra tuners, things like PTAT, or some of the smaller but helpful stuff like remote locating, or stuff like Youtube and Netflix (which the X1 doesn't have, and only just added last month in the case of Netflix). Notice too that all Hoppers (since release in, what, 2012?) have had a 2TB hard drive, and it's only now, 4.5 years later, that someone else (TiVo) has come up with a DVR that has more space (3TB in the Bolt+ released in Sept this year). And this place being what it is there are surely some people who've managed to hit 75% full on their Hoppers, if not fill it up. So in the end you have to go with what works best for you, considering what is available at your location, and what your budget is.

And also, most pay-TV companies are continuing to either hold steady or lose subscribers. This isn't just a Dish-only thing. And as has probably been discussed here, programming costs continue to rise. So something has to give way, somewhere. Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to post links so easily, but a few google searches about pay tv subscriber counts for each quarter of the year will tell this story rather quickly.
 

MikeD-C05

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Dish needs someone like tmobile ceo john legere to shake up the industry...


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He had definitely shook up the cell phone world and created value for his subs. I have had the unlimited data/text/voice plan when it came out and I have 4 phones and pay about 150.00 a month. I also can use my phones as hot spots to run my mini I-pad . I never have to worry about most of what I watch going against the data plan ,because DISH anywhere , Sling tv , Netflix ,etc are part of the binge plan. That is all I watch on my phone or I pad, so no worries on data or them slowing down my speed. IF only Charlie and John could merge and work together , both companies would grow even more. But John is definitely focused on growth of the company and has moved to #3 in line of the cell phone companies with the most subs. Charlie needs to focus on growth as well , not just profits , if DISH is to continue to exist as a company long term.
 
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comfortably_numb

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I feel like Charlie Ergen did a pretty good job over the years in helping to pioneer DBS, encouraging his team to innovate and produce the cutting edge technology. Also his company listened to customers and valued their input. I used to watch Charlie's chats and I felt like he was one of us; somebody who genuinely loved the technology. A TV geek. Hate to say it, but when has DirecTV ever been the front-runner? The Genie followed the Hopper. DTVNOW followed Sling. I have always viewed Direct as just another huge company (which now, not-so-ironically, has been swallowed up by Ma Bell!) I agree that Dish and Tmo seem to be similar and could be a good fit.


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inazsully

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Comfortably numb, I went over to DirecTV. I left for better PQ (yes it really is on my 75 inch Sony). Even though 4K is limited it is still cool to look at. I joined thru Costco so not only is the Choice Package $60 mo, there is no DVR charge (Genie) no charge for the two Clients, and I received $300 gift card from Costco. If you are with AT&T the $60 mo charge carries for the entire 2 year contract. If not then the monthly charge goes up $110 mo. After one month I can tell you that the Genie is a nice DVR but it pales in comparison to my Hopper, especially the Hopper 3. The entire Genie feature pack is much less intuitive than the Hopper.
 
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Stargazer

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Well we have 4 rooms that run PS Vue. Somehow they manage to have no mirroring fees. So it does hold some water. They base their service on no fees. Its kinda nice.

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I wondered when someone would come out with an iptv service that makes it simple, one price without all the extra fees. I figure that would be a hit. Cloud base storage is also a big advantage and having low overhead would help keep prices low.
 
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msmith198025

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Yeah... and that is pretty much taking a service without paying for it. I can see why some people would prefer free streaming over paying for Cable or Sat.
Yeah, that is probably not as common.
Many do share netflix accounts, and netflix has basically come out and said that is a good thing as many that shared an account often become subs themselves. I am sure other services like amazon and hulu are used the same way.

For pay live iptv services, stream limits and locations access restrictions make this a very minor problem, if it is even doable for most. I know with Vue it is restricted to where you sign up at, except for mobile, and that is limited somewhat as well.

Slings low stream limit would make me keep my account info secret as well, as I would not want to be bumped when someone else tries to watch and I have a couple going. (it may not work on two different landline locations at the same time either, I have not tried it)

I am not sure how DirectvNow has theirs set up for home viewing in two locations, but I think it is similar to Vue. I may be wrong on that.
 
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comfortably_numb

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Make that 420,001

Just helped another customer disconnect today and got the contract waived.

Cost Dish $240 and 1 customer.

Just another $2,799,760 to go until we are even with the 2.8 million they still owe me.


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Sounds like another grumpy Dish employee. Reading a comment like that would really make me want to sign up.


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