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Last reply · posted in C-BAND Satellite Discussion
Nothing had gone according to plan over the weekend with the kids, so a couple of hours before sundown I was determined to rescue something to show for it on the FTA side. I've been playing musical feeds on my BUDs over the past few months trying to figure out where everything best fit. That left a single orthomode feed on the 3.2 m for the absolute best CNR, a single ortho on the 3 m as a secondary, a single ortho on the 2.3 for easier feeds, and a modified dual ortho with a quad universal Ku on the 1.8 m for easy C-band and tough Ku-band feeds.

Unfortunately I still had an orphaned ADL single orthomode C-band circular feed in the project box. Originally I picked up the 2.3 m for this purpose, and although it did well, I wanted better reception on the weakest signals. Part of the problem may be that the ADL circular feed is designed for a fixed f/D. You can only move the scalar over a very narrow range, and not enough to exactly match the 2.3 m's f/D of 0.35. Even before that I had wondered if I could somehow get it to work on my Winegard 3 m Pinnacle, which has a ridiculously low f/D of 0.278. This has become my problem child dish, not because of any inherent flaw, but because no feed I've ever tried on it matched well out of the box. Every feed that's been on it has been modified. When I talked to a knowledgeable dealer about possibly using this feed on the Pinnacle, all I heard was him rolling on the floor laughing. That stung, so guess what I decided to do yesterday.

It wasn't enough to prove the ADL circular feed could work well on a deep dish. After all the feedhorn and waveguide dimensions are fairly well suited for such an application, as the diameter is a bit larger than most of my orthos. If I merely switched it with the linear ortho already on the 3 m, I would still have an ortho with two Norsat 8115s collecting dust in the project box. Ok, it would take a little less space than the monster ADL circular. Instead I was determined to get both working well on the same dish.

Logic would say that a multifeed C-band setup would be a better fit for a shallow dish. The longer focal length provides a smaller angle offset between the feeds, meaning each is closer to the paraboloid's focus. But somebody seems to have had a monopoly on much of Colorado's C-band market, because all I keep finding for free are deep dishes. That's fine in the end because I can generally get higher CNRs on deep dishes with a little work. There is also the question of whether to center one feed and have the other offset. Here's a little math that explains my choices.

A typical C-band feed has a mouth diameter around 2.5" and a scalar ring diameter of say 6". The Pinnacle's focal length is about 33". If I simply attached the scalar rings side-by-side, the feed centers would be 6" apart and that would be a 10.4 degree offset on the Pinnacle. If one feed was centered, the offset feed would have a loss of more than 3 dB. That's horrible because the 3 m would be acting like a 2.1 m dish in terms of sensitivity. Recall I wanted more gain than my 2.3 m could offer. But if instead both feeds were each offset from center by 5.2 degrees, there would only be around a 1.25 dB loss. So this is heading in the right direction.

If I overlapped the two scalars, the feed centers would be about 4.25" apart. That would be a 7.4 degree offset on the Pinnacle. If both feeds are offset by the same amount, each would experience around a 0.5 dB loss. Not perfect, but getting there. The last step is to hack the scalars so the feeds are right next to each other. With a 2.5" separation and offset by the same amount, the two feeds will be 4.3 degrees apart and the loss might get below 0.25 dB for each. That sounded pretty good. I don't mind a little math if it saves me 3 dB. A lot easier than putting up a 4.2 m dish.

The first step was to solve the circular feed's f/D problem. It turns out the feed diameter steps up a little bit as one goes from the front to the back of the feed. This step fixes the scalar in place and allows the back of the waveguide to rotate so one can align the 1/4 wave plate with respect to the LNB probes. The ADL feed is claimed to employ a much less lossy 1/4 wave plate than the dielectric inserts normally supplied with low end C-band feeds. It certainly looks very nice and it should be considering the cost of the ADL circular feed. I was a little concerned about how the step would affect the 1/4 wave plate mounting, but as the slot for it is already machined into the thinner front part of the feed, this didn't look to be a problem.

I've got lots of tools but no lathe, and I realized finding a friend with one would exhaust the remaining daylight hours. So out came the grinder and I took off maybe 2.5" of the step towards the back of the waveguide. This allowed the scalar to slide far enough back to better match the Pinnacle's f/D. It also revealed a lack of coordination by highlighting my less than perfect machining with a 'hand lathe'. Some spray paint did a decent job in calling less attention to this than a shiny aluminum feed mouth.

For such simple feeds, there are a lot of things to get in the way when you slap two next to one another. I finally decided where to mark the lines and hack off a slice from each scalar ring. This is shown in the photos, and allows me to clamp each feed with the set screw in its own scalar, while allowing me to essentially butt the two feeds against one another. I cut two strips from a thick aluminum plate and used these to bolt the two scalars together. A little English on these plates allowed me to align the feed mouths and toe them in slightly to compensate for the offset. After that I had to add some new holes to attach the dish's support arms. This was the tightest part because there isn't much clearance for the arm than attaches to the scalar underneath one of the linear LNB mounts.

I was moving fast because the sun was going down, and found I had to saw some bits off the support arms to could get the feeds close enough to the focal distance. I ended up a tiny bit farther away than I was shooting for, but certainly good enough to test. I had to eyeball the alignment and was able to make a few sighting checks to make sure the feeds were close to center before it got too dark to do anything.

After I was excused from dinner it was time for some quick functional tests. It was clear both feeds were working pretty well. Just before I took down the Pinnacle single ortho, I pointed the 3 m and 3.2 m dishes at a very strong transponder. The 3.2m read 0.5 dB more CNR, which is almost exactly what it should be. After dialing in the best new motor position for the linear feed, it was still 0.5 dB below the 3.2 m. That was stunning because I planned to mess around for hours doing the fine tuning and still expected to lose some gain from the single feed reference point. At best I figured there would be a 0.25 dB loss. I haven't thought about this much, but perhaps the larger 'Siamese scalar' might be improving the CNR and compensating for the slight offset loss. I don't have as good a reference for the circular feed, but right off the top it got 50% more transponders logged off 40.5 W than did the 2.3 m, and all of them were hot. For the moment I'm inclined to resist the urge to 'improve' the alignment.
28 Replies · 15320 views
G
man this was one interesting readin there in the beggining guy. . .looks patent and all.

i have one question, i have been readin over the starters post but im tryin to understand with this setup what where you tryin accomplish?
C
man this was one interesting readin there in the beggining guy. . .looks patent and all.

i have one question, i have been readin over the starters post but im tryin to understand with this setup what where you tryin accomplish?

there are 2 orthomode feed horns. one is set up for linear cband and one is set up for circular cband. i have copied the great pendragons concept except using a lnbf for the circular portion. ive had it sitting on my bench for months. was gonna install it today but i couldnt find any conduit to make new supports. ah well.

crackt out,.
ACRadio
i have copied the great pendragons concept...

crackt out,.
Me too...here's mine...
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C
Me too...here's mine...

is that 2 chaparal orthos in the pic? im assuming a dielectric is needed in one ?

crackt out,.
ACRadio
is that 2 chaparal orthos in the pic? im assuming a dielectric is needed in one ?

crackt out,.

Yep...2 Chaparral orthos with a plate in the upper one. This dish has a left hand mounted actuators so the linear can see a bit farther west and the circular can see a bit farther East. I can see down to Express AM44 at 11 West.
G
Yep...2 Chaparral orthos with a plate in the upper one. This dish has a left hand mounted actuators so the linear can see a bit farther west and the circular can see a bit farther East. I can see down to Express AM44 at 11 West.

will the chaparrel corotor II wideband feed perform the same way as your setup?
ACRadio
will the chaparrel corotor II wideband feed perform the same way as your setup?
I wouldn't know as I have never played with a wideband Corotor. I deleted the message above this because I thought you were talking about mounting 2 wideband Corotors in siamese configuration...
C
will the chaparrel corotor II wideband feed perform the same way as your setup?

the corotor wideband feed is a different solution to the problem the siamese ortho setup solves. the main differences between it and the siamese are...

- the siamese setup can feed more than one reciever at a time.
- the wideband corotor needs a reciever capable of setting 4 polarizer positions.

umm and i think pendragon has stated that an orthomode feed performs better than a corotor feed. i thinks thats about all i can think of.

crackt out,.
G
the corotor wideband feed is a different solution to the problem the siamese ortho setup solves. the main differences between it and the siamese are...

- the siamese setup can feed more than one reciever at a time.
- the wideband corotor needs a reciever capable of setting 4 polarizer positions.

umm and i think pendragon has stated that an orthomode feed performs better than a corotor feed. i thinks thats about all i can think of.

crackt out,.

ok thanks. . .why i ask is because im usin the chaparrel wideband feed and it performs 'ok' i would say 'ok' is because i have nothing to compare it to.
i dont need it to hook to a million receivers as its only me who will watch anything on the bud :D, im also have 2 pansats and a 4d receiver which can work my servo motor.

as for performin better, what difference would i see if i where to use one of this bad boy feeds?

thanks guys
P
as for performin better, what difference would i see if i where to use one of this bad boy feeds?

I've not seen a direct performance shoot-out between these feeds, however I've corresponded publicly and privately with a number of people who have done some form of testing between the available C-band feeds. The composite of this and published specifications leads at best to a coarse estimate of the relative performance of a wideband corotor with the dielectric inserted vs. the two single ortho feeds I used.

For the linear side, a wideband corotor without a dielectric plate delivers about 1 dB less CNR than single linear ortho feed. Inserting the plate causes a further 0.5-1 dB loss. On the circular side, a high-end circular feed like the ADL will outperform a single ortho with a dielectric plate by about 1 dB, and and that will outperform a corotor with a plate by another 1 dB. The losses are therefore between 1-2 dB for both sets of polarization.

Translated into other terms, let's say one has a 10' dish with a corotor plus a dielectric plate. A 1 dB loss means the dish will perform in CNR the same as a 8' dish with a single ortho feed. A 2 dB loss means the dish will perform in CNR the same as a 6.5' dish with a single ortho feed. CNR is important for C-band reception, but it isn't everything. Separating an adjacent orbital position 2 degrees away is also important and a 10' dish will do this the same regardless of the feeds listed here. Whether CNR is critical to your needs depends a lot on your viewing preferences. If you're after weak, near the horizon, high rate, high FEC and/or DVB-S2 signals, a better feed can make a big difference.
G
ah ok. . .thanks guy, im not sure what CNR is but i will look it up, so far my wide band feed works and gets me the TPs im after with high quality where possible, so im happy. ;)
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
133 Replies · 1280 views
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Foxbat
I noticed you missed last week's… Much like the SEC Shorts!😉
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osu1991
I noticed you missed last week's… Much like the SEC Shorts!😉
I thought I posted it as I usually have nothing to do but sit at my desk in the morning scrolling the interwebs , but my mom passed away the day before so my mind was mush.
Ronnie-
I thought I posted it as I usually have nothing to do but sit at my desk in the morning scrolling the interwebs , but my mom passed away the day before so my mind was mush.
Sorry for your loss.
Y
24 team playoff seems to be real close.

Are we really that far from a 64-team tournament?

The benefit of the 24 team playoff:
  • All the cartel teams that cartels want in playoff are in playoff
    • Independent of record too! Bonus.
  • MONEY!!!!! for the cartels.
  • I'm out of ideas.
Cons
  • Regular season really doesn't matter now other than the rivalry games
    • Top cartel teams can lose three games and still make the playoff
  • Going to start resting players?
    • The playoff is going to be *checks notes* several games!
    • Resting players could make games dumb.
    • Maybe even restrict NIL players from games played.
  • How much are streaming sub costs going up a month to pay for this?!
osu1991
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum
Wasn't exactly sure where to post this. Just had a customer come in inquiring about internet. He has HughesNet and had heard good things about mine. He asked if we provided email addresses and it kinda caught me off guard. I said he should be able to keep whatever email he had been using....my sister in law is still using a BellSouth email addy and they haven't been around here for many years. He said he had gotten a letter from HughesNet stating that they had until Nov 16th to save, move, forward, whatever, their Hughesnet emails because they would lose them after that date.

I have never heard of a company simply mass-deleting email accounts (the customer still has his HughesNet service). From what I understand, in the past, the company who was ditching their email service simply sold the customer base to a company like Google.

Anyone else getting this letter. He said he would show it to me tomorrow when I go out there and set up his internet.
6 Replies · 82 views
Foxbat
Doing a Google of the HughesNet Email notice, it seems that HughesNet has been trying to eliminate hosting emails since 2019. And with HughesNet filing Chapter 11 back in August, it would be a smart move to switch to a more stable Email provider. Even AT&T farmed out their Email to Yahoo! years ago.

SpaceX's Starlink and the Cellular 5G Home Internet solutions have pretty much relegated HughesNet and its high latency, low bandwidth Internet service to History. If Earth had shorter days, maybe a Geostationary Internet Solution might have stood a fighting chance…
dishstaller
Well, I helped him set up a gmail acct....I actually wanted to see what the new process is for setting up a gmail acct since it had been years since I set mine up. Anyway, I showed him how to forward the emails he wanted to keep over.
navychop
If Earth had shorter days,

Wouldn't we then die of old age sooner?

🙄
  • Wow
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Foxbat
Wouldn't we then die of old age sooner?

🙄
Still the same number of years, just more Sunsets…😉
K
Even AT&T farmed out their Email to Yahoo! years ago.

I still have one of those although I've been trying to wean myself off it.
JSheridan
Among my many email accounts I still have a .netscape.net which AOL assimilated a while back.
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Hard getting used to the new younger Gibbs, Mark Harmons son had the right look but I understand he didn't want the role.
Still I'm enjoying, pretty good job with Franks.
62 Replies · 4170 views
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"MysteryMan"
Best episode ever.
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Jimbo
Best episode ever.
I actually think the very first episode was One of the Best ...
S1 E1 Yankee White
Where it all started in what was it, 2003 ?

edit:
Sorry, I got the shows mixed up, were talking Origins ...
I've liked Most of them once we've gotten past the 1st 3-4, getting to know who was who took a bit in the beginning.
It's a bit harder seeing we already Know the person, then go back and see how they became that person.
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KAB
KAB
Mark Harmon is coming back as Gibbs in Origins, for the full season. Just saw, Dinozzo too, on NCIS . That will be an interesting writing project.
dfergie
Really good one with OG Gibbs bookending it...
R
Really good one with OG Gibbs bookending it...
Will the OG Gibbs be on NCIS or will Tony be on NCIS Origins?
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68491 Replies · 2670112 views
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H
Rick Island LINE-Johnny Cash
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ClarkGable
Rock And Roll All Nite - Kiss
harshness
Rock and Roll Ain't Noise Pollution - AC/DC
Bobby
Kiss - The Art Of Noise
long_time_Dish
Beautiful Noise - Neil Diamond
TheRatPatrol
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Anyone else watch this show? Any guesses as to what was in the box Gibbs gave to Abby that was on her desk? It look liked it was glowing.

I also heard that someone was leaving the show at the end of this season. Any guesses as to who thats going to be?
2130 Replies · 214628 views
Jimbo

Howard ...
You don't like Tony, or Tony as the Director (he's only been there for 30 seconds now) or you don't like NCIS ?
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Howard Simmons
Howard ...
You don't like Tony, or Tony as the Director (he's only been there for 30 seconds now) or you don't like NCIS ?
Tony as the director.🙄
Jimbo
Tony as the director.🙄
Would you rather have LaRoche ???
dfergie
I liked this episode and a toned down Tony...
H
Last reply · posted in FTA Receiver / Equipment Support
I just received 6 receiver 2 port mini Multiswitch and it work great, no external power need it, and you can connect 6 receiver instead of 4 on most Mini Multiswitches... If anyone is interested in where they can get one PM me....
IMG_1786.webp
3 Replies · 53 views
Titanium
Have you tested using external power? Over the years, have found unpowered polarity switching to be unreliable. Especially problematic when used with DiSEqC motors or switch stacking.
H
No I have not. I just got it the other day and it is connected to six receivers working just fine. What I do is non power mini multi-switches work best with LNBF's and with LNB's
H
It also has a IPS and a OPS switch on the side of it with a power led light showing when is on. It seems to be very nice build switch
Bobby
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
This is a thread that will keep you apprised of 4K events that will be showing on Dish channel 540. Keep looking here for information.

As of today, 9-27-17, there are no scheduled events posted for the next 2 weeks. That is subject to change on a daily basis.
761 Replies · 166962 views
Bobby
MLB, Brewers at Dodgers, Wednesday 10-14, 5PM PDT, Channel 148-02.
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Bobby
MLB, Brewers at Dodgers, Thursday 10-15, 6PM PDT, Channel 148-02.
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Bobby
CFB, Notre Dame at BYU, Saturday 10-27, 4:30PM PDT, Channel 148-03.
Bobby
NASCAR, Freeway Insurance 500, Sunday 10-18, 12PM PDT, Channel 148-04.
Bobby
CFB, Ohio State at Indiana, Saturday 10-17, 9AM PDT, Channel 148-01.
CFB, Arizona State at Texas Tech, Saturday 10-17, 12:30PM PDT, Channel 148-01.
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Former member 209992
Last reply · posted in SatelliteGuys Support Center
For some reason, the satelliteguys.us site is loading a lot slower than usual on both Chrome on my Asus laptop and Safari on my iPhone.
I'm also seeing longer appearances of the blue bar at the top and the "3 blue bars" loading symbol.
Is anyone else also having the same problem? Thanks in advance.
524 Replies · 17845 views
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Foxbat
Yeah. It's probably something going on with the MacBook as my iPhone has been pretty snappy.
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Scott Greczkowski
I have been optimizing the site the past few days... and got us here now. :) We are rocking now!

Screenshot 2026-10-15 144737.webp
Foxbat
Yeah. It's probably something going on with the MacBook as my iPhone has been pretty snappy.
I rebooted my MacBook Air and it's zipping right along. Sorry, but it was taking over 20 seconds to load pages, with the pulsing blue bars so it was munching on something.
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Scott Greczkowski
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
Foxbat
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
WTF… …What the Foxbat!😱
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Can't help but wonder if a worker overlooked checking the harness. I rarely ride a roller coaster anymore but when I do I check the harness myself pretty aggressively.
Can't imagine what the son is going through.

22 Replies · 182 views
Jimbo
Back on the Goliath Roller Coaster ... I'm interested to find more details as well ...
Like where on the track did this happen (somewhere I read that it was on the climb up the top), which is impossible ...

They really need to take that ride and add at the very least, seatbelts ...

The Park is opening back up on Friday, the ride will Not be opening ... personally, I would keep it closed until different type of restraints can be designed and installed (over the winter).

I find it hard to believe that this ride is even allowed to be running with the restraints that exist at the moment, there are other rides that use the same type and they have been shut down across the country.

You got to believe that every ride has at least 2 types of restraint systems in place.

I wonder what and when we will hear from the Manufacturer ... and whatever governing bodies control these ...

Just think, this is a Major Amusement Park .... I would not have any problem getting on the Roller Coasters I have rode ...

Imagine what these County Fairs and others like them, I would not be caught Dead on one of them ... they get put up and tore down every other week, where is the safety for those rides ... No Thank You.
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Jimbo
navychop
I would not be caught Dead on one of them

Yet IF you were on one, you might be caught dead.
dishstaller
Had no idea there were that many redundancies built into those restraints.
Jimbo
Had no idea there were that many redundancies built into those restraints.
It makes sense, however, I would want more types of restraints, so if one doesn't work, the other does ... the restraints coming over the shoulder I would have expected ... with a Seat belt as last resort.

Fwiw, I inquired with what they use on Coasters at Cedar Point, various Coasters, different restraints according to what the car and track requires ...

NONE of the Coasters at CP use THAT particular system :)
I'm glad to see ...
dishstaller
with a Seat belt as last resort.
According to the article, when you see a seat belt on a ride like this, it is basically used as a way of making sure the rider isn't too large/fat to safely ride the ride.