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H
Last reply · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion
There are 2 out of 4, Red Carpet Univis feeds (Lo Nuestro Awards) on AMC 9 Ku, 83W, that are possibly using DVB-S2 8PSK in what is called backwards compatible mode. Meanning they can be locked and watched in regular DVB-S useful under fading or bad weather conditions where CNR degrade. Using the Azbox Prem+ for the first time I have run into DVB-S2 8PSK signals (the CS 8100 locks them that way) that can be also locked if I select regular DVB-S as the modulation type. Normally any DVB-S2 locks either as QPSK or 8PSK (posibly because the tuner automatically switches accordingly) but it always has failed if you select DVB-S but with this 2 feeds (12165H 6620 and 12174H 6620) it locks them no matter the modulation or S or S2 type selected. I also noticed that in DVB-S the lock at a lower Signal Quality but the same Signal Strenght.

At least for me this is weird, What do you guys think?. Am I smoking weed or have we spotted something new or unusual? I know this are feeds but I think in this case it is useful to post its parameters , in any case this is spanish only shows.
7 Replies · 2512 views
SatelliteAV
Not aware of the h.264 profiles being backwards compatible for legacy DVBS receivers. Would be interested in more discussion as an option for our broadcaster partners. Did you happen to record the transport stream? I believe that you were viewing a mux built using multiple encoders, one DVBS and one S2 encoding the same source. The reason that most DTH broadcasters are not transmitting two streams is the encoder cost, the additional bandwidth and the majority are still acquiring and producing in standard definition.

The real basis behind a transition to higher PQ is distribution requirements and viewer demands. On a technical level, what comes first, the horse or the cart?

The first step for a broadcaster is to upgrade acquisition and migrate production and post production to produce content in HD. If their distribution model includes terrestrial or subscription distribution the transition has or is now occurring. If the main audience is DTH using FTA on KU-band, the transition will be gradual as the majority of FTA DTH viewers do not have equipment capable of receiving programming produced or distributed in any format other than DVBS MPEG2 main profile. The current broadcasters are meeting the needs of their primary DTH market and this market is not vocal regarding a better quality image. I could see the transition being speed up if a compelling service were to launch using DVBS2 MPEG4 to a market. Since DVBS2 MPEG4 receivers are backwards compatible the broadcaster would still need to see a demand or requirement to provide higher quality PQ.
H
Good point because it was indeed H.264 as per Azbox. They were all HD 1080i as well as per the CS 8100. Brian I did not record any stream at all, my bad!. I did not even thought of it!, too much was going on and I tuned them too late and wanted to try many receivers , see it in the SA and also wanted to confirm first it was backwards compatible mode.

It was not acctually a mux per se , they were all SCPC , all 4 different feeds. the first 2 were typical DVB-S (QPSK obviously) but the other 2 were scanned in with the AZbox as DVB-S2 8PSK but they also locked if I selected DVB-S which has never happened before. I always try with every S2 feed to lock it as DVB-S because I have always wanted to find a backwards compatible one. As a matter of fact the AZbox reported FEC 1/2 on those 2 8PSK and since the CS 8100 has no 1/2 FEC option when using DVB-S2 I could only lock them in QPSK 3/4 with the CS 8100.

I do not really see the usefullness of Univision doing this since as you said they were all H.264 (although DVB-S sat receivers H.264 capable do exist , this chinese nextar semms to be an example, MPEG-4 H. 264 DVB-S HD Internet Sharing Receiver Cccam MGCamd - China Hd Internet Reveiver,Mpeg-4 H. 264,Cccam Recever in Radio & TV Broadcasting) but it could be the case that they also had some affiliate (keep in mind this is a spanish show with high penetration in South America and possibly this red carpet feeds were intended also for south american tv stations) that even though they had HD and H.264 capable recivers they were not DVB-S2 capable yet. As a matter of fact the AZAmerica is a very popular consumer grade satbox in South America that is only DVB-S capable but does H.264 it is also chinese made, for more info see Azamerica S2 S900 DVB-S Receivers - TV STB Receivers - Product Catalog - Fujian Tianyu International Development Co.,Ltd

In any case from a broadcaster point of view I do not think you need to buy 2 encoders since more likely the DVB-S2 encoder is capable of doing (but it could cost more since it has 2 encoders inside but maybe they all do now for the same price although this is an optional mode so like cars some has A/C some dont) this by just flipping the backwards compatible mode switch on but will have to gather more info on available comercial equipment to support this statement.

The following is taken from an EBU document named DVB-S2: Ready for Lift Off (I saw it posted here over 1 year ago) at http://www.hellas-sat.net/files/file/EBU_DVB_S2.pdf

Backwards-compatible modes​
The large number of DVB-S receivers already installed makes it very difficult for many established
broadcasters to think of an abrupt change of technology in favour of DVB-S2 – especially where
there is a receiver subsidy and for free-to-air public services. In such scenarios, backwards-compatibility may be required in the migration period, allowing legacy DVB-S receivers to continue operating, while providing additional capacity and services to new, advanced receivers. At the end of themigration process, when the complete receiver population has migrated to DVB-S2, the transmitted signal could be modified to the non-backward compatible mode, thus exploiting the full potential of DVB-S2.
Optional backwards-compatible (BC) modes have therefore been defined in DVB-S2, intended to
send two Transport Streams on a single satellite channel. The first (High Priority, HP) stream is
compatible with DVB-S receivers (according to EN 300 421 [3]) as well as with DVB-S2 receivers,
while the second (Low Priority, LP) stream is compatible with DVB-S2 receivers only [2].
Backwards compatibility can be implemented by hierarchical modulation [4], where the two HP and
LP Transport Streams are synchronously combined at modulation symbol level on a non-uniform
8PSK constellation. The LP DVB-S2-compliant signal is BCH and LDPC encoded, with LDPC code rates 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 or 3/5. Then the hierarchical mapper generates the non-uniform 8PSK constellation: the two HP DVB-S bits define a QPSK constellation point, while the single bit from the DVB-S2 LDPC encoder sets an additional rotation​
​
​
​
±? before transmission. Since the resulting signal has a quasi-constant envelope, it can be transmitted on a single transponder driven near saturation.​


********************** now my post continues ********************

which is consistent with what I saw , since they say that the LP stream (DVB-S2) is encoded with low code rates like 1/2 among them and that is what the Azbox blind scanned in and that is why the CS8100 did not lock it in DVB-S2 (it lacks 1/2 in its S2 options).

there is another document I read last night that claims that the HP stream (DVB-S) becomes more noisier and it could also be consistent with the fact that my Azbox locked them with higher Quality on S2 but lower Q if DVB-S was selected. In any case I have no means to contact the Univision broadcast department and ask them if indeed that was the case but since DVB-S2 penetration in South America might have been an issue it could be the case they decided to use this BC mode for the transmition. Will pay more attention and record it on future Univision major events feeds, lets hope they reuse this technology again.

Brian thanks for replying BTW.
SatelliteAV
Thank you for this additional information.

I will read up more on this transition solution and am interested if you observe this transmission occur again. I will PM you my telephone number if you could contact me next time you detect this mode. I would like to snoop the transport streams and perform some testing with legacy DVBS decoders.

Have some sit-down time with several uplinkers next week at the NRB convention in Nashville, TN and again next month at the NAB in Las Vegas, NV. Will see if they can provide additional insight on this and I will share gleaned info.
H
You are Welcome. Of course I will, no problem, will also continue on the look out for this signals. I will also PM you the details and post it here for future reference if I spot another one and next time will record it as well, just in case.
H
I have not being able to catch another transmition like this and in terms of DVB-S2 modulators most I have seen on the net do not mention BC mode but this does mention is able to do backwards compatible mode.
http://www.datacast.com/media/mediamanager/datasheet/56-dm-3100-modulator.pdf

Whether they are more expensive or not, no idea. Another good pdf about the benefits of using this is located here: http://www.scopus.ru/files/Maximizing_Satellite_Transmission_Efficiency_With_DVB-S2.pdf

BTW last week I found several latin american TV stations over at 55.5W mostly, that had programms only about that Red Carpet from that night so I guess some of this TV stations although they had h.264 HD reception equipment they did not have DVB-S2 capable ones therefore the need to run those feeds in this BC mode for them.
JSheridan
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.
171 Replies · 4736 views
MikeD-C05
I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH and then if you can't see the western arc you go with streaming versions and then they could keep customers if they had good internet speeds. I mean Sling TV could be changed to Streaming DISH TV if they wanted since both companies are under Echostar. Then you would still be able to use your ota antenna with Air TV devices like I do with Air TV Anywhere with 4 ota tuners.
Scott Greczkowski
I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH
I have the same wish.
S
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.
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Jimbo
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.
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Mister B
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.
S
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.
can't forget the little blue m&m's
charlesrshell
can't forget the little blue m&m's
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!
B
I have the same wish.
Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite
NYDutch
Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite
DISH will happily sell them a Starlink system and service.
T
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink
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Foxbat
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink
Because he didn't have a fleet of reusable rockets. Starlink works because SpaceX is able to launch hundreds (thousands?) of their Starlink satellites for what a single geostationary Internet satellite costs to build and launch on a disposable launcher.
T
But how is it reusable if it's disposable
S
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!
My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68623 Replies · 2678422 views
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long_time_Dish
Change Of The Guard - Steely Dan
dishstaller
Owner Of a Lonely Heart - Yes
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long_time_Dish
Lonely Street - Kansas
dishstaller
Lonely is the Night - Billy Squier
long_time_Dish
Lonely People - America
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
RIP dude. Always liked his music. He was 83


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5Arbm47IQ
1 Replies · 12 views
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
· posted in The Chit Chat Club
This video was put up shortly after I was able to take my family out to Yosemite in 2011. No AI.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-2fVsFV8E
0 Replies · 7 views
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Love this guy's channel. Looks like Walmart has thrown in the towel when it comes to conventional car batteries.

I bought a new AGM battery from Walmart about a year ago, it is already needing replacing. I thought about just buying a regular battery but from what I've read, that might not be a smart move. Might check my Forscan program and see if I can change the battery type from AGM.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awe7kY5nvdU
18 Replies · 195 views
harshness
When you need a battery, you need a battery.

If you can wait, new technologies are on the not-too-distant horizon.

You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.
dishstaller
You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
Jimbo
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

My last AGM (using now) I got from O Rielly's, its the Super Start ... I got the Platnium, they had several to choose from.
T
He sounds like he's trying to sell me a pocket hose.

I just had to replace a car battery this week and thought I'd look into LiFePo4. Amazon has plenty of them, but all have top posts and only one 'also' has side connections (Group 75).Then I read that they're really lousy in the cold. So, an AGM, but again, almost nothing with side terminals instead of top. In researching that, I read that most mfrs in recent years have dropped side terminals and gone back to the old top posts, which is surprising to me since those are more corrosion-prone, cause the battery to need more space and are generally more hazardous. Finally I just threw up my hands and bought a regular lead-acid at Sam's Club. They had a Group 75 "Duracell" with side terminals only. It was virtually the only such battery with side posts on their shelves
arlo
Had a Die Hard in my folks cellar for over 6 years. Pulled it out, slapped it on a charger for a day. Put it in my 'Cuda and drove it around for a week of my vacation. Next year, the same. But my dad kept it topped off for me.It was a mid 80's battery in early 1990.

Flooded acid batteries like a float voltage of around 13.5-13.8 voltage.
AGM needs a float of 14.2 volts. So if you slap an AGM in where a flooded was. It never gets a full charge.
"Why do they die so fast?" Question answered. There are folks who sell voltage regulators for alternators that are designed to boost float voltage for AGM batteries.
The other way around? Flooded will gas-off a little at 14.2 volts. But seems to tolerate it pretty good.

Lithium car/bike/atv batteries. After 3 batteries in my Harley. The OEM flooded and two AGM's (before the 14.2 volt float requirement to let them live was learned). I bought a lithium for it. 4 year, no gripe warranty after having it tested by an approved store.
The thing started like Thor himself sent a bolt from the sky. Except......try to start it around freezing? Nope. Needed a heating pad.
And I usually like to park it around events in the evening with the parking light on. Looks cool like that.
We could traipse around for a few hours no worries. Hop on, fire it up, and go putt around.
Lithium? A Dakota Lithium at least. The BMS shuts it right down if it discharges below <something>.
Come back. Parking lights off. Won't start. And you know the rest. But it lasted 6 years. A lot better than 'new every two'. And the fact that powersports batteries are warranted for six, maybe nine months. Ludicrous.

I called Noco. Asked all of the right questions. Great warranty. Save some bucks ordering directly, faster service that the wally world alternative.
They addressed (or claimed over the phone) that the shut down was addressed. Sure. The BMS keeps it form being damaged. But if it is shut down because it does become low. Shut down any load (key on, parking or headlights left on) for 10-15 minutes and you get a second try to start your rig. Not a bad thing if it really works. Right?!

Exide, Interstate? Be very afraid. They ain't what they used to be. In Florida my '70 Cutlass had an Interstate (early 90') that lasted 6 years until it dropped its plates at an intersection and boiled over. In Florida, mind you. The last Interstate.....done in 2. Guys down there would suck out the acid and put water in shortly before the warranty ran out. Make it to the auto parts, get them tested. And get a new one pro rated. No more pro rating.
You can't beat an Odyssey. Napa, AC Deco (the better ones). Yup.
The mom and pop Car Quest only sells Die Hard. For a reason, the old man says. So they convinced that a Die HArd Platinum was the hot ticket for me. l will see. Stand by!

You can't cut Mr. Project Farm down. He does great tests of all sorts of things. Not sponsored and pressured to slap a little sugar on his comparisons and reviews. Compared to the Brits and Aussies with their constant overzealous and same sounding (Dave from EEVblog) rant. I like P-Farm a lot. Of course I like AvE (Boltr) too.
Reminds me to beware when wearing shorts around the garage vice.


Opinions may vary.
harshness
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.
The days of the 84-month warranty appear long gone, regardless of brand or where you acquired it. Warranties tend to be shorter, with much greater dependence on quick prorating.

The big problem for lead-acid batteries (whether flooded or AGM) is that the US no longer produces lead (the last smelter closed in 2013) and must import it.

Recycling covers a good chunk of the need (~70%), but it isn't free.
EarDemon
I've always got regular OEM Ford Motorcraft batteries from the dealership and have never really had an issue. On my old Lincoln Aviator (the SUV from the early 00s, not the CUV of today), I had some phantom drain and went though a few batteries, but that was an anomaly and with the standard warranty I got free replacements. Taking the Aviator out of the picture, I've bought two batteries in my 24 years of driving. One battery replacement in my Mountaineer, one in my Navigator. But I probably would have had another one had I kept it around longer. Didn't have the Bronco long enough, and so far still on the factory battery for my Expedition.

I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner. I'm in Buffalo, 90 degree summers and 0 degree winters. Once in a while in the dead of winter I'll get an alert from the Ford app saying remote features have been disabled to conserve battery, but it starts right up.
dishstaller
I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner.
warrior.webp
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
168 Replies · 2373 views
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Jimbo
AI Overview


College Football Playoff bracket, schedule, scores, rankings ...

The 2025–26 College Football Playoff concluded with the Indiana Hoosiers winning the national championship by defeating the Miami Hurricanes 27–21. [1, 2, 3]

Playoff Results Summary
The 12-team playoff bracket featured the following key results across each round: [1]
    • First Round: Alabama defeated Oklahoma (34–24), Miami (Fla.) beat Texas A&M (10–3), Ole Miss topped Tulane (41–10), and Oregon defeated James Madison (51–34) at higher-seeded campus sites.
    • Quarterfinals: Miami (Fla.) upset Ohio State (24–14), Oregon shut out Texas Tech (23–0), top-ranked Indiana rolled past Alabama (38–3), and Ole Miss edged Georgia (39–34) across the New Year's Six bowls.
    • Semifinals: Miami (Fla.) advanced past Ole Miss (31–27) in the Peach Bowl, while Indiana dominant-defeated Oregon (56–22) in the Fiesta Bowl.
    • National Championship: Indiana secured the title with a 27–21 victory over Miami (Fla.) at Hard Rock Stadium. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Unfortunately, there was not rankings listed in this summary
AZ.
AZ.
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.
Jimbo
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.
I think they are actually discussing the Top 8 get a Bye this time, if they go to 24.
Then again, I heard something about Play in games for the 16-24 teams ...

Nothing is official yet, so lots of moving parts ...

Can't wait, lets do 24, 3 years later they will want 32 :sick
Y
And no teams deserve a bye! Injuries are the largest part of the game that you cant practice for them. Any team can suffer the worst injury at any position on any play. No favorites.
While the bye can help the top four teams and those the Cartels would like to protect in the playoff, I think the bye is also about making the Cartel championships mean something. One problem with a playoff is it does diminish the conference title a bit.
Jimbo
While the bye can help the top four teams and those the Cartels would like to protect in the playoff, I think the bye is also about making the Cartel championships mean something. One problem with a playoff is it does diminish the conference title a bit.
Once the 24 gets here, there won't be anymore Conference Championships .... or so they say.

Oh what the hell, we really don't need Conferences anymore either ...:coco:(
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dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
· posted in The Chit Chat Club
0 Replies · 23 views
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
4 Replies · 62 views
Bobby
Rest in peace. Together again with Spock, Doc, Uhura, and Scotty...
long_time_Dish
Rest in peace, Checkov, and Bester too...
FTA4PA
Rest In Peace 😢
Foxbat
Rest in Peace…
Bobby
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
This is a thread that will keep you apprised of 4K events that will be showing on Dish channel 540. Keep looking here for information.

As of today, 9-27-17, there are no scheduled events posted for the next 2 weeks. That is subject to change on a daily basis.
768 Replies · 167922 views
Bobby
MLB, Rays at Brewers, Friday 10-23, 5PM PDT, Channel 148-01.
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Bobby
MLB, Rays at Brewers, Saturday 10-24, 5PM PDT, Channel 148-01.
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Bobby
MLB, Brewers at Rays, Monday 10-26, 5PM PDT, Channel 148-01.
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Bobby
MLB, Brewers at Rays, Tuesday 10-27, 5PM PDT, Channel 148-01.
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Bobby
CFB, Florida vs Georgia, Saturday 10-31, 12:30PM PDT, Channel 148-03.
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