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tconnors said:

HD should gradually become "the norm"

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tconnors said:

In 2-3 years there will be almost no analog, and more than 50% of sets will likely be HD... it seems HD should gradually become "the norm", at prices no greater than they are now.

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rad said:

Chris Freeland said:

rad said:

JoeSp said:

RAD,


And still remember the all mightly $'s. How much would it cost a new customer, out of pocket, to get a new D* or E* system that includes HD hardware vs. the up front cost to get HD via cable? Most folks will have a much easier time spending the couple of extra $'s per month for that HD converter box vs $400 to $600 for a DBS configuration.

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New subs can get an 811 HD receiver as part of their DHP or Free Dish Promo for no additional charge, current subs can upgrade for $149 - $199 and current DHP subs can upgrade for just $99, I would not be suprised for D* to eventually match the E* deals, so what current or new DBS sub is or will be paying $400 - $600 for a DBS configuration? The only additional upfront cost for a DBS sub may be for an ota antenna for HD locals if they do not already have one and depending on where you live and what your needs are, an antenna will run what, anywhere from $25 to maybe $200 installed?

Granted cable has a slight advantage in having local HDTV without an ota antenna, however the majority but not all of the cable systems out their have a week lineup of National HD channels. Comcast Chattanooga here only has CBS-HD, NBC-HD as the only HD-locals at this time, ESPN-HD, INHD and INHD2 are the only National HD channels currently on their system. The Comcast HD lineup here does not appear to be much deferent then most of the cable systems HD channel lineup that I have seen posted for other places, with just a few exceptions. Both E* and D* currently have a slightly better National HD channel lineup then the majority of the cable systems out their. I do believe that once room is found on their satellites and carriage agreements can be worked out their will be new HD channels added to both E* and D* after the first of the year to better compete with cable. E* may be first to add new HD channels simply because with 8psk and a few more TP's currently, D* may have to wait until the new spotbeam satellite is launched and locals on 101 conus are moved to the new spotbeam.

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Chris, yep if you want to be a DHP customer you can cut down on the up front costs, but you end up paying a higher monthly charge to lease the hardware. So either pay E* a higher monthly charge for the box or the cable company, either way you're paying more. Plus with cable you aren't signing a commitment for a years worth of service to cut down on the initial investment. As for D*, do they have a national promotion for their HD package yet? I thought it was something regional so far, even then I thought you're looking at spending $399 for hardware? As for adding an OTA antenna, that as you say is an additional expense plus the wife factor comes into play, some don't want an old antenna up on the roofs. Don't forget the homeowners associations that will cause grief even though the FCC says they can't stop you. Don't forget the folks in an apartment that are at the mercy of their buildings management, you get what they give you.

Also, don't forget that some specials that Dish runs are not available to DHP customers. As a DHP person myself I can testify that there were a couple I wanted but couldn't becuse of my status. You also incure the rath of Nick whenever you post about DHP customers getting left out of specials.

As for programming, I'd feel better if Charlie said that they were in negotiations for Starz, Cinemax, TMC, Bravo but nope, he's got everything out there that's worth carrying. If I went with my Comcast system today I'd loose HDNet, HDNet movies, PPV and Discovery HD. I'd gain the two INHD channels and the announced addition of Starz and Cinemax to be coming soon. Frankly, after having Discovery HD since the launch and the HDNet channels I'd rather have Starz and Cinemax HD channels.

Besides all this, I'm just getting very frustrated with E* as of late. Hardware that's delayed, when you get it you spend hours on the phone with CSR's reporting bugs in the software or why isn't a documented feature working.

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Since the introduction of the 322 and DVR522 receivers this is no longer true, new DHP subs in many cases pay the same monthly fee or a lower monthly fee then us subs who own are equipment. A new DHP sub for example can get a 811HD receiver to feed an HDTV ready tv and a 322 receiver to feed 2 SDTV's for the programing package montly rate plus the $10/mo lease for 2 receivers, a sub who purchased their equipment would need to purchase a 811HD receiver and 2 x 301's and pay the $4.99/mo extra receiver mirror fee on each of those receivers for a total of $9.98/mo only 2 cents less then DHP, virtually the same price as a DHP sub. The only time that a DHP sub would pay more to lease then to own is if the 811 is their only receiver on their account. E* also has the Free Dish Promotion for new subs where you do own the equipment and you can upgrade to the 811 receiver at no additional cost and if this is your only receiver would not cost the extra $5/mo. I was purely speculating that D* would match the E* HD deals soon, and you are correct, the best HD deal that D* has at this time that I am aware of is $399.

Yes I know that not all of the current customer deals that E* is currently running do not apply to DHP, however they are letting DHP subs upgrade to the 811 for $99, which is $50 - $100 less then the purchase deals and if I am not mistaken DHP subs have the same $99 for 1 year or Free for 2 year commitment as those of us subs who own for a DVR510 upgrade.

I agree Charlie could have communicated things better, however that has never been one of his strong points anyway . I suspect that E* will have some or all of those requested channels sometime in the 1st Q of 04.

I agree that the bugy hardware and delays have been frustrating. I have wanted to upgrade to a 522 and have been very frustrated with it's delay and when it did arrive it is available to new DHP subs only and ones for purchase may not be available until July according to Scott . However I do not belive cable is the answer here either, Comcast around here still does not have a DVR and from what I have read at the varies forums, digital cable boxes have not exactly been bug free.

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