Actuator Questions

[tvropro]

After almost 20 years My 24" Thompson Saginaw actuator gave me trouble. It locked up yesterday and kept giving me Jack Error. I tested the electronics at the receiver first, the Motor voltage was there and when I tricked the sensor terminals at the receiver it was getting a pulse the receiver counted but the actuator didn't move. I went out to the dish grabbed the ring and rocked it back and forth hard. I came inside and it was working again so something was binding I would think. It has worked so far up to the point of me typing this.

Now here are a couple questions for you guys that get old actuators on scrounged dishes.

Is there any advice on possibly saving this thing since the Saginaw is king. Or would it be better to get a new one. Money is tight right now and I really can't afford another Saginaw.

If I went with a heavy duty acme nut like Sadoun sells, like this: QARL-3624 HV-24 24" Stroke 36V Motech Heavy Duty Actuators would that thing be good enough to move my 12 foot Unimesh dish. I know a ball screw is the best, but the norm is the acme nut. My dish weighs 288 LBS. I think the Saginaw was way overkill for it, but back in the day without responsibilities like now cash was available for the best, but not today

Any help on this would be appreciated.

 

[Lak7]

My first thought for an old motor, is there are probably motor Brushes that need to be replaced.
Cheap and simple job, but the parts may be hard to find.

 

[phlatwound]

linuxman has a couple Saginaws for sale, maybe you could scrounge some pieces/parts from one of them?

http://www.satelliteguys.us/satelliteguys-classifieds/150503-fs-18-inch-actuators-assortment.html

 

[tvropro]

I looked at linuxman's stuff. It looks like all 18" parts I think the 24" used a larger motor and shaft. I don't know? I don't have the paperwork from my original so I don't even know which model it is. I hate like heck to invest in parts that don't fit or may not solve the problem. The shaft may be binding so replacing the motor may not help. I never dissected an actuator and can't find an exploded view on the net so Im in the dark there. I left the dish on G5 overnight that night which I normally don't do (normally it's G1) When I went to move it in the morning it didn't move but was working up to that point. I don't know if it could have got some moisture in there and froze. It was about 18 outside that night. Last night I put it on G1 and it moved fine this morning, it was 28 last night. If it was warm outside it would be alot easier to mess with. Hanging off my garage roof at 6am in the dark in the winter was no fun. (But were all crazy when it comes to this Satellite stuff )

 

[1captain]

my 1st thought would be pull outer tube & center drive tube off the acme tread apart, make sure you mark the distance on the acme tread not to mess up you're limit settings. clean an grease very well, I use boat grease (marine grease) holds up a lot better in the elements, you may just find that grease in it has gone by by or has gotten hard.

now I like vonweise actuators here, have a 10 1/2 mirco-dine heavy dish about 450lbs, an got a old 705 uniden actuator on it (V-76 model) back before Vonweise had their name on them, an it has been pushing that dish for well over 20-years.

 

[tvropro]

My Saginaw is a ball screw type, what is involved it taking it apart or greasing it anyone know? What is the difference between acme nut and ball screw inside?

 

[1captain]

My Saginaw is a ball screw type, what is involved it taking it apart or greasing it anyone know? What is the difference between acme nut and ball screw inside?

A ball screw is a round solid block most of the time made of aluminum (at the end of the push tube of a actuator) with little steel balls that ride on the treads of the screw.

now a acme screw is just a nylon part in the end of the push tube of a actuator, with treads that ride on the screw drive

 

[tvropro]

How would you lube it? How does the motor come off?

 

[Lak7]

How does the motor come off?

There should be 2 bolts at the base of the arm, see Pic

 

[tvropro]

There should be 2 bolts at the base of the arm, see Pic

Okay do I need to twist it or does it just come off? Can this arm be greased still connected to the dish or does the actuator have to come off?

 

[gabshere]

i've taken several apart and placed them back together ( not saganaws) and have placed the photos on site here ( i will look for them) but i'm sure we could walk you through the process. and remember pictures are your friends take lots

 

[Lak7]

Okay do I need to twist it or does it just come off?

Should just come off, once removed the Dish may move!
Do you have a way to clamp the Dish in position, so you don't lose your Sat Positions?

 

[1captain]

How would you lube it? How does the motor come off?

1st remove actuator off dish
2nd remove the 2 bolts an the end of the motor like lak7 posted.
3rd outer tube will slide off with its back mount for the dish, an the motor an pusher tube will still be together.
4th measure the inner tube to a reference on the motor, you will need to reset it back to the same measurement.
5th start un screwing the pusher tube DO NOT UNSCREW all the way little balls will fall out, an if they do, its VERY time consuming to get them back in place, tweezers an grease if this happens.
6th clean an grease, found that wd-40 is a good cleaner with lots of rags
7th reinstall back in reverse order.

 

[tvropro]

I'll have to take all this information in and see If I can get something done, weather pending. I just moved the dish up and down the arc and it worked fine, but that don't mean anything. It died at 4:30 AM that's usually how it happens.

I just talked to Skyvision tech support and they told me to take the motor off and put some lithium grease in there and put it back together and run the arm. Would that work?

 

[tvropro]

I went out there and did some investigating. The Saginaw is the old one bolt motor model 7821721, 36v. hall effect sensor. I have a quick pro motor cover on the motor/gearbox assembly. I took the rubber cover off and found something very interesting in there. There was a 1/3" thick block of ice wrapped around the bottom of the motor which I removed, could this thing have froze up? I then cleaned out the weep hole on the tube and tightened up the 4 screws on the back of the gearbox they were loose. I also punched 3 drain holes in the bottom of the quick pro cover under the motor to help aid drainage. I listened to the motor while running it sounded good. It was too cold out there to tear the thing down today to do a lube job. I'm going to see what happens, if it keeps going. I'll save lubing it for a warmer day. Thanks all for your input.

 

[SatPhreak]

It possible it froze. I took a hairdrier to one to unthaw once and it worked again for a couple years. Next time it failed it was beyond repair though as I didn't fix the original problem of cleaning the blocked weep hole to let any water out.

 

[gabshere]

well i would also suspect that it froze

but there are also other things to consider
water has been inside the motor and you don't know how long its been doing it.
i would suspect a good cleaning and re lubing will be needed.

good thing is its working now so its not something you have to rush out and do.

the acutator you listed above is a good one ( i am planning on getting the 36" version soon) but i suspect its not near the quality of your old saganaw. but they are about the only thing we have to choose from now unless you want to search for someone thats selling a saganaw ( and they are expensive when you can find them). so its always good to have a spare actuator on hand.

 

[rv1pop]

I might spray it good with WD-40, as was suggested, for now, since WD-40 is a water displacer. Then when it is warm enough to work on, take it apart and greese it well.
POP

 

[tvropro]

Its still working this morning and it got about the same temperature last night that it did the night it quit. So hopefully any moisture that was collected has been purged. I will have to keep a close eye on it and see what happens. You guys down south send some warm air up my way

 

[tvropro]

Quit working again

I tried to move my dish last night from W5 to G1 to let the 4dtv update, and the same thing happened no movement. I went outside rocked the dish and it started moving but kept on stopping. I noticed when moving it's running very slow to the west. Im done! Im going to order that heavy duty 24" unit from Sadoun today. When I swap it out I will take the old actuator to the bench and tear it down sometime and see what went wrong. If easily fixed I'll have a spare, otherwise It's time for the funeral after 19 years.