Brian Gohl - Titanium Satellite

[ILoveSats]

Brian,


I hope this message finds you well. We previously engaged in insightful discussions on Satellite Guys, and I must say, your expertise and insights were invaluable to me. I'm aware of your specialized satellite parts store, Titanium Satellite, and I believe your knowledge could be instrumental in my current endeavor.


Earlier this summer, I acquired an 8-foot mesh dish along with its mounting pole. However, I find myself somewhat perplexed regarding the exact components required to assemble and operate this dish. Based on my understanding, the preliminary list of necessary parts appears to be:

1. New C-band Actuator: How can I ascertain the appropriate size for my specific dish?
2. FTA Receiver with C-band: Essential for receiving free-to-air C-band signals.
3. Dual C & Ku Band LNB: To facilitate both C and Ku band reception.
4. DiSEqC Motor: I'm uncertain about the necessity of this component; your guidance would be appreciated.
5. Positioner: To accurately align the dish with the desired satellite.
6. Coax Cable: For signal transmission.

Could you please review this list and confirm if it's accurate? Specifically, I'm anticipating the need for a new LNB and actuator but am unsure about the DiSEqC Motor and positioner. Your expertise in how these parts interconnect would be invaluable.


Regarding my Ku band dish, I'm currently receiving signals between 77W and 101W. I plan to access 103W again once the seasonal foliage recedes.


Would it be possible to source some of these parts used? Your insights into quality and compatibility would be greatly beneficial.


I eagerly await your guidance and thank you once again for your willingness to assist.


Best Regards,


John-K9JPT

 

[Titanium]

1. New C-band Actuator: How can I ascertain the appropriate size for my specific dish?
2. FTA Receiver with C-band: Essential for receiving free-to-air C-band signals.
3. Dual C & Ku Band LNB: To facilitate both C and Ku band reception.
4. DiSEqC Motor: I'm uncertain about the necessity of this component; your guidance would be appreciated.
5. Positioner: To accurately align the dish with the desired satellite.
6. Coax Cable: For signal transmission.

Welcome to another rabbit hole in the satellite hobby! Hope you find this information helpful and that others will add to the thread with their comments and suggestions.

1. Most 8 foot dishes use a 24" linear actuator. To measure for the required actuator length, manually spin the polar mount across the arc to aim near the horizon, on the side of your lowest satellite. This is the side where the motor will be installed. Measure the distance between the two clamp mounting points. This is the minimum distance with the linear actuator retracted.

Manually rotate the polar mount to a point on the opposite side of the arc, where a straight edge will line up between these two clamp attachment points without touching or binding against the polar mount assembly. The distance between the two clamp mounting points in this position (plus a minimum of 4 to 6 additional inches for actuator stability) is the maximum usable extended linear actuator measurement. This is the length of actuator that you will need. Buy the heaviest diameter and best drive mechanism actuator that your budget allows. I typically have used a 24 or 36" Von Weise with low gearing. Strong, LONG life span and very QUIET!!! Your dish construction, reflector weight, mounting points, location weather exposure, wind load, snow load, icing.... all need to come into the equation.

Even if you think that an 18" actuator is long enough for the 8 foot dish mount, don't cheap out! You will regret it as it will not hold up over time. Von Weise and Venture (in that order) offer two of the best actuators. I am not a fan of the imported actuators as the brushes wear fast, have sloppy tolerances and tend to have a short life.

2. In my opinion, the Edision OS Mio 4k is the best FTA STB for the serious satellite hobbyist. The Amiko mini 4K is a great appliance STB for the the casual hobbyist. DVBS STBs are capable of receiving both C and KU frequencies the better hobbyist friendly STBs support multiple preprogrammed and user customized LO frequencies. Satellite Downlink frequencies are down converted to minimize distribution loss and typically are received in an IF range of 950-2150MHz.

3. Personally, I would only run C-band on a typical consumer grade panel dish. BTW... 8 foot is the minimum size for rejecting interference from an adjacent satellite. 8 foot may be too small to reject interference and provide adequate SNR in the near future. With the ongoing repack, frequencies and polarities are coming into use on adjoining satellites.

Might consider adding KU if using a solid, high quality, commercial grade reflector. An 8 foot mesh or panel, consumer grade dish will likely perform similar to a small 90cm/1 meter offset type. A 90cm/1m is also easier to aim and reliably track the arc. If you can only install a single dish, then I would deal with the lower performance and bumping to optimize. Otherwise, best to receive KU on a smaller offset and C-band on the 8 foot.

Combo C/KU LNBFs are a compromise. A C/KU feedhorn like the Chaparral with butterfly KU element and servo polarity control is the best way to go if you wish to optimize reception on C and KU bands. But then you need a way to control the polarity servo.

4. DiSEqC referenced motors are typically used on KU HH motors and rarely implemented in linear actuator systems. Several experimented with DiSEqC implementation, but it was never standardized beyond our projects.

5. Still a few resellers of DiSEqC positioners out there, but most DiSEqC positioners sold are NOS. A few resellers offer stand alone positioners, but these positioners are a PITA as they require a separate RCU and don't integrate with the satellite receiver to enable automatic satellite selection.

6. I use RG-6 copper core, quad shield, coax with compression fittings. Yes, a bit overkill, but provide low satellite signal loss and better signal integrity for switch and motor control.

 

[jorgek]

I'm assuming that item 6 should be RG6 rather than RG8? Must be a typo.

 

[Titanium]

I'm assuming that item 6 should be RG6 rather than RG8? Must be a typo.

Good catch! Yes, a typo. As a ham, too many cable types running through my brain! Lol

 

[KE4EST]

Good catch! Yes, a typo. As a ham, too many cable types running through my brain! Lol

fixed

 

[Titanium]

Thank you Michael!

 

[ILoveSats]

Brian,

Thank you for your prompt and courteous response. I apologize for the delay in my own reply.

I have several queries that require clarification:

Query 1: Could you provide a visual representation or a hyperlink pertaining to the "Measure the distance between the two clamp mounting points"?

The statement "where a straight edge will line up between these two clamp attachment points without touching or binding against the polar mount assembly" is somewhat ambiguous. Could you specify which two clamp attachment points are being referred to? I am having difficulty visualizing this concept.

Regarding the actuator's operational procedure, once it is successfully installed, how is it commanded to move? Is this control facilitated through the FTA receiver? For context, I currently have a KU dish in operation, and its receiver issues commands to the motor, enabling it to move. Could you elucidate how this process is executed in the context of C-band technology?

Lastly, if you or anyone in your network is aware of a reliable source for actuators, I would greatly appreciate a recommendation. I noticed that you offer LNBfs on your website, which leads me to believe that it may be the appropriate platform for my needs.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Best regards,

John

 

[arlo]

Brian,

Thank you for your prompt and courteous response. I apologize for the delay in my own reply.

I have several queries that require clarification:

Query 1: Could you provide a visual representation or a hyperlink pertaining to the "Measure the distance between the two clamp mounting points"?

The statement "where a straight edge will line up between these two clamp attachment points without touching or binding against the polar mount assembly" is somewhat ambiguous. Could you specify which two clamp attachment points are being referred to? I am having difficulty visualizing this concept.

Regarding the actuator's operational procedure, once it is successfully installed, how is it commanded to move? Is this control facilitated through the FTA receiver? For context, I currently have a KU dish in operation, and its receiver issues commands to the motor, enabling it to move. Could you elucidate how this process is executed in the context of C-band technology?

Lastly, if you or anyone in your network is aware of a reliable source for actuators, I would greatly appreciate a recommendation. I noticed that you offer LNBfs on your website, which leads me to believe that it may be the appropriate platform for my needs.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Best regards,

John

If I could butt in. I believe Brian is referring to.
With your dish retracted towards the lowest satellite you will ever be able to receive.
Measure the distance for your mounting points between A & B.
For me the lowest sat. is 131W. Which is pretty low here.
And I do have a bit of dish movement further west.
So in Bri's thing. If you were aimed at 131W. You obviously would not want the actuator completely retracted. Lets say you start out with it extended 3-4 or so inches. And no worries. There are switches inside of the motor that limit how far it can physically retract and extend.

Then move your dish up towards the sky. Keeping an eye on where the actuator would be mounted.
If there are no obstructions or parts of the dish that would interfere with, or cause the actuator shaft to hit, bind, on the polar mount.
Measure the length between those 2 points. If it happens to be 18-20 inches. Then a 24" actuator would fit you well. Just remember whether 24, 36 inches in length. You can never retract or extend them all the way.
In my pic. The dish initially would only handle a 24" actuator. Hence the added angle iron and hardware. And the spring fixes a nasty habit known as "dish flop" when the geometry of the actuator mount and the dish going a bit over top center. To all of a sudden....flop over. Not too good for the actuator. But then again it's a big old heavy 12' fiberglass dish. The mount is all painted and pretty now.

Bri can handle the next part. Your ku dish mover contains everything that it takes for your receiver to tell it to move. The same is a bit different with linear actuators. The actuator gets voltage from a controller. The controller is attached between the dish and the receiver with the same coax that the LNBF is hooked to. "Daisy chained".
You would have to manually steer the dish with the mover control. Those movements would be tracked with a counter (encoder) in the actuator arm.
So you've seen the usals settings in your receiver. In this world you don't use it.
If 127W reads 307 incremental 'counts' on the controller display. You store that position in its memory. And assign that memory slot #1.
In the receiver you see stored position (once you turn use usals off). Enter 001 and save.
Find your next sat. and store it in the dish mover as a momory slot. Do it again. And again.
And so on and so on. 125W, pos. #2.......99W, pos #15.
I have something like 45 sat's stored.

There are other, ancient movers that you held a button until it counted up/down to the satellite position. But today. Your one and possibly only option would be a V-Box.
(nah bri. i aint gonna' jab you in the sacroilliac on that one......haha. touche')

 

[arlo]

If I could butt in. I believe Brian is referring to.
With your dish retracted towards the lowest satellite you will ever be able to receive.
Measure the distance for your mounting points between A & B.
For me the lowest sat. is 131W. Which is pretty low here.
And I do have a bit of dish movement further west.
So in Bri's thing. If you were aimed at 131W. You obviously would not want the actuator completely retracted. Lets say you start out with it extended 3-4 or so inches. And no worries. There are switches inside of the motor that limit how far it can physically retract and extend.

Then move your dish up towards the sky. Keeping an eye on where the actuator would be mounted.
If there are no obstructions or parts of the dish that would interfere with, or cause the actuator shaft to hit, bind, on the polar mount.
Measure the length between those 2 points. If it happens to be 18-20 inches. Then a 24" actuator would fit you well. Just remember whether 24, 36 inches in length. You can never retract or extend them all the way.
In my pic. The dish initially would only handle a 24" actuator. Hence the added angle iron and hardware. And the spring fixes a nasty habit known as "dish flop" when the geometry of the actuator mount and the dish going a bit over top center. To all of a sudden....flop over. Not too good for the actuator. But then again it's a big old heavy 12' fiberglass dish. The mount is all painted and pretty now.

Bri can handle the next part. Your ku dish mover contains everything that it takes for your receiver to tell it to move. The same is a bit different with linear actuators. The actuator gets voltage from a controller. The controller is attached between the dish and the receiver with the same coax that the LNBF is hooked to. "Daisy chained".
You would have to manually steer the dish with the mover control. Those movements would be tracked with a counter (encoder) in the actuator arm.
So you've seen the usals settings in your receiver. In this world you don't use it.
If 127W reads 307 incremental 'counts' on the controller display. You store that position in its memory. And assign that memory slot #1.
In the receiver you see stored position (once you turn use usals off). Enter 001 and save.
Find your next sat. and store it in the dish mover as a momory slot. Do it again. And again.
And so on and so on. 125W, pos. #2.......99W, pos #15.
I have something like 45 sat's stored.

There are other, ancient movers that you held a button until it counted up/down to the satellite position. But today. Your one and possibly only option would be a V-Box.
(nah bri. i aint gonna' jab you in the sacroilliac on that one......haha. touche')

View attachment 164659

 

[Titanium]

Arlo explained the points very well. Thank you!

You may contact Von Weise and Venture directly to purchase an actuator. Both manufacturers sell direct to retail customers.

 

[primestar31]

I just happen to have a new old stock G-box positioner listed in the classified ads, if you want one. Get a motor on your C-band dish, connect that and the receiver to this, program it, and the receiver will then automatically move the dish to whatever satellite you want.

You can't buy these from Sadoun anymore, as they no longer sell satellite equipment.

SOLD!! - N.O.S. Sadoun Gbox V3000 satellite positioner - Now on Ebay also

New in box, never used, part of my "just in case" stock, never needed it, because the old one I've used for years has never failed. I opened the sealed box, and plugged this in to take a pic showing it lit up...

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