C band analog to digital conversion

[rmcel123]

Lets try this again...first post didn't show up!

We are an academic institute that used to receive NASA on a large C band analog system. Nasa changed to digital C band back in 2005 and we now need to get our system up and running again.

I am no expert on this but all indications are that I need a new receiver and LNB to receive digital C band. We only receive one channel so I don't need a fancy receiver. I would like to keep using the present 10' dish on the roof if possible.

What do I need to make this happen? Recommendations on a receiver and LNB to use? Can I reuse the dish?

Thanks

Dave

 

[mikekohl]

Any good digitally compatible C-band LNB will do...you might consider the NORSAT 8215 as a compromise that offers 250 KHz stability, without going to the expense of a PLL device, which is unnecessary for this service.

Receiver: if you are running a single channel for a headend, I would recommend the Traxis DBS-3800, a close cousin of the highly rated DBS-3500. It also includes a rack-mount housing plus a front panel switch that allows infrared remote receptor to be turned off. With the price of these receivers, you might consider multiple channel reception from NASA---there are three fulltime standard definition channels in the digital multiplex from either 137 West or 72 West.

Should you wish to receive their HD channel, a number of different receivers can be considered, including the Pansat 9200 and others.

 

[phlatwound]

Your existing dish should be fine, and unless your existing LNB (LNA?) is rather old it will probably be fine also (assuming it still works). You don't necessarily need a new LNB to view digital signals, most reasonably current units will do analog & digital.

Any decent DVB receiver will allow you to view the standard definition channels, as Mike said above you will need something with HD reception capabilities to view the high definition feed.

If possible, please post some pics of your exisiting setup, good pics always generate more comments!

 

[rmcel123]

Thanks for the info. I am attaching a few pics of our setup. Our setup is about 12 years old so changing out the LNB is probably not a bad idea. We assume that it still works but don't know for sure. We used a General Instruments Innovation 550i receiver for the analog signal.

There was no numbers on the LNB unless they are inside it so I couldn't tell exactly we have. Will a new LNB bolt right in to this config?

I like the idea of a HD setup but our use probably doesn't allow that. We ran the signal to the 550i and then split the output to 2 TVs. One is 100' away and the other is 200' away. I don't want to run more cable if possible so this means that we will probably go the standard def route. It might be worth getting a HD receiver and just run reg def out of it for now. Leaves room for future expansion.

I don't believe you can run HD signals wirelessly yet. Anyone know more about that?

To run the 3 NASA channels, would I need a feed for each from my LNB? Would this require 3 separate cables? Then I would need a receiver to accept 3 feeds too I assume.

Price questions......how much would a new LNB and receiver run approx......standard def for now.

Thanks again for all of the help.

Dave

 

[Pepper]

Assuming they have it, "Loop Out" from each receiver to the input on the next.

This requires that all channels you want to receive are the same polarity from the same satellite, in this case they probably are.

 

[phlatwound]

It would help to have a picture of your feed/LNB to tell what you had, but that being said, my feed and LNB is 15 years old, and it works great for digital.

Unless you can determine for sure that it will not work, I would try what you have on the dish before I changed it out.

All the NASA channels are on one transponder, you don't need multiple cables. You will need HDTV's to view an actual HD picture, you can view HD on SD TVs, but it will be in SD.

You should be able to get a good standard def. receiver for around $100-$120 US. Fortec, Traxis, Visionsat, Coolsat all have good SD models in that price range.

 

[rmcel123]

Thanks for the info. I will just try the receiver first and then the LNB if needed. When buying a receiver for this do I need one specific to C band or any old FTA SD model. A local supplier told me all of his are KU band.

Dave

 

[phlatwound]

All of the units I mentioned (Fortec MercuryII, Traxis 3500, Visionsat IV-200 and Coolsat 4000, 5000, 6000, 6100 are some models that have been reviewed here a lot) will do C or Ku.

There are a lot more brands out there and I think most will do both bands but you need to verify that.

 

[Anole]

one more opinion:

From the picture, it looks like you have a motor on the back side of the dish.
And your old Analog receiver undoubtedly provides the motor control.
Other than the roof mount, that looks like a standard home installation.
You might want to keep that receiver, both to move the dish, and to adjust the polarity servo up on the feedhorn.

Addition of just one DVB receiver (any of the ones mentioned above) would give you access to a multitude of programming across the arc.
I can see some of your faculty/students/researchers using it to get sports feeds on the weekends. -

If you are really serious about watching just NASA, then three receivers as Mike mentioned might be a proper solution.
And the rack mount units would be appropriate.
But, if you don't have to feed the three channels out to a campus full of TV sets, maybe your needs are met by just the one DVB receiver.

I would decide on which of the receivers listed above best meet your needs , and start with that.
(Perhaps with a recommendation for the Visionsat IV-200, since it can record)

 

[Corrado]

What a nice looking dish and sturdy looking mount. Cable in conduit too. Since everything looks professionally installed, perhaps commercial type LNB is hiding under that cover.

Does the analog receiver still get a picture?

 

[gabshere]

Does the analog receiver still get a picture?

i was going to ask the same question .... reason being if its be a while since it was used
something might have moved in and set up house .... the is the best time of year to check and clean under the feedhorn cover

if all is working i would agree that a basic receiver would get the channels you want .... a receiver at each location would get all three channels ( possible to have on different channels)

if budget is small the receivers can sometimes be found on ebay for a smaller cost ... they would probably just have no warrenty

 

[jterhar]

If you are used to analog, remember that Digital is different...and a bit more of a pain in the neck when it comes to lining up a new service. Remember how you could get in the neighborhood of an analog feed and then tweek it in? Can't do that with digital. It is either there or gone. It really helps to have a spectrum analyzer when you are trying to resusitate an old system or trying to find a new satellite or service. Since NASA is on C band, it isn't quite as bad as trying to find a KU channel. Definitely get a receiver that will do blind search and use Lyngsat to figure out what satellite you are on and then step over to the one you want.

 

[rmcel123]

I would like to thank everyone that answered my plea for help. After reading all of the comments both on line and PMed to me, I have decided to buy a SD receiver to start with and see if my LNB still works. I will buy a new LNB if necessary. I will keep the old receiver to control the dish. I will then look into going to a HD receiver or pc card in the future, I still have to evaluate what is necessary to get HD to those TVs or more probably new HD LCD TVs.

Thanks again to all. I will keep you posted on my progress.

Dave

 

[melgarga]

Nice looking dish, looks to be in real good shape for it's in weather service time.
Dont confuse analog vs digital with circular vs linear. I 've yet to find a C band lnb (all for analog originally) that wont pick up digital signals. Polarization such as H/V vs circular left or right is another thing altogether, but you will find circular only used for the "pizza pan" aka DirecTV, DN, (or ExpressVu if you are in Canuckland) services.
As to costs, the old cliche "How much you got to spend?" applies here too.
Before posting I had to confirm this still works. The cheap, down and dirty (but legit) way to get one of NASA's channels is to go Ku with any old Dishnet IRD and any old Ku band dish, Direct or DN. Both are for circular polarization. I see them tossed out in the trash quite frequently.
The reason I said 'confirm' is because I picked up an old Dishnet DP301 IRD w/card at a garage sale about six months ago for 3 bucks, and I needed to stop and confirm NASA was still broadcast unencryped on DN before I told you wrong. It is. The hitch is to finding an old box is that, if it is a card using type, it must have the matching card that came with it. No sub is needed but the software wont allow access to the receive functions unless it sees the card present. It is kind of a pain to try to navigate around the 'not authorized' nag that comes up on subscription channels every few seconds until you get to the unencrypted NASA channel (213), but it can be done.
There are models out now that do not have a removable card, it's smartchip is 'embedded' on the main pcb. I suspect they will work for this as well, but I dont have one handy to confirm it. So for a bit of alley canvasing and garage sale/resale shop perusing, one could get NASA (and Angel + the 'barker channels') for next to free. Sounds like a mission/scavenger hunt for the students to me .......lol. With the proper switching setup, adding add'l salvaged boxes for different classrooms is doable as well.
OK, that's Ku. Now, which FTA receiver to add for C (and Ku, as they are dual band) depends on how forward thinking you want to be for the amt spent. A cheap/low end box can be had for around $100 new + shipping and even less if you watch Ebay or Craigs List. Coolsat 5000/6000s are popular, cheap and pretty good on both bands. (I have a 6000)
From here the sky is the limit (pun intended) Up the ante by ~$30 and you can get something with USB/PVR functionality via and external USB mass storage device. They also support .jpg and .mp3 playback,......... useful for presentations? The ability to record/pause/playback a given broadcast should be a useful feature for the classrom as well. Sonicview 360 Premier and CaptiveWorks Ultima fall in this range. There are others.The Sonicview 360 Elite supports dual tuners as well for about 40 buck more. These are on my 'being considerd list' but I am awaiting Echostar's pending encryption upgrade rollout to see how that impacts prices.
I suspect once you enter the DVB arena, you will be exploring much more than the just the NASA offerings. There is considerable educational programming available free-to-air.
The next price step is a considerable one, in the $350-400 and up for HD capable units. A feature to look for here is DVB-S2 capability in addition to the standard DVB-S format. Some HD broadcasts are already using this newer format, more are expected to follow. Some of the units catering to the 'patch-eye' subculture of FTA are not truely S2 compliant.
I believe the Coolsat 8100 and the Pansat 9200 are the only two Asian built boxes available that pick up true S2 out of the box, but you would need to consult someone that has experience with these if they peek your interest.
Good luck, and get those kids out dumpster diving............lol
PS - back to Ku for a moment. If you decide to utilize any FTA box you may get for Ku as well as C band, the Dishnet/DTV pizza pan dishes are usless for Ku linear polarization. You will need a larger, 30"+ dish that has a linear LNB. Remember the old, obsolete Primestar satellite service? The dishes (oval and round) are perfect for Ku FTA, and should be findable on a scavenger hunt as well.............

 

[truckracer]

Amc-6 dvb NASA channels are strong too

 

[Inno]

Thanks for the info. I am attaching a few pics of our setup. Our setup is about 12 years old so changing out the LNB is probably not a bad idea. We assume that it still works but don't know for sure. We used a General Instruments Innovation 550i receiver for the analog signal.

There was no numbers on the LNB unless they are inside it so I couldn't tell exactly we have. Will a new LNB bolt right in to this config?

I like the idea of a HD setup but our use probably doesn't allow that. We ran the signal to the 550i and then split the output to 2 TVs. One is 100' away and the other is 200' away. I don't want to run more cable if possible so this means that we will probably go the standard def route. It might be worth getting a HD receiver and just run reg def out of it for now. Leaves room for future expansion.

I don't believe you can run HD signals wirelessly yet. Anyone know more about that?

To run the 3 NASA channels, would I need a feed for each from my LNB? Would this require 3 separate cables? Then I would need a receiver to accept 3 feeds too I assume.

Price questions......how much would a new LNB and receiver run approx......standard def for now.

Thanks again for all of the help
Dave

Just a sidenote, the LNB I'm using on my C-Band setup is surely more than 12 years old and it works very well so you might be ok with it as long as it's working.
What part of Ontario are you in? From the amount of snow on the ground you're nowhere near Northwestern Ontario as I am!