Can sun fade kill a C-Band lnb?

  • WELCOME TO THE NEW SERVER!

    If you are seeing this you are on our new server WELCOME HOME!

    While the new server is online Scott is still working on the backend including the cachine. But the site is usable while the work is being completes!

    Thank you for your patience and again WELCOME HOME!

    CLICK THE X IN THE TOP RIGHT CORNER OF THE BOX TO DISMISS THIS MESSAGE
Status
Please reply by conversation.

colbec

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Feb 5, 2007
354
0
Eastern Ontario, Canada
About two weeks ago I was tuned to a C-Band station and it disappeared. I was accustomed to this early in the morning when the sun rose and faded the signal. Wait 10 mins and the signal normally came back. This time it did not. I have now replaced the lnb and the new one seems to be ok.

Hooking up the old lnb in a different dish gives me an abnormal reading for signal strength on the Coolsat 6000. I have tried redoing ends, repointing dish etc but no go. So it looks as if my old reliable Cal-Amp lnb is dead.

So the question arises, what happened? I'm wondering maybe if a layer of highly reflective frost/ice built up on the dish (CM 10 foot painted black) and managed to reflect enough solar energy into the throat of the lnb. Possible?
 
lnbs do die for whatever reasons. Since they live outside in the weather extremes, i would say the elements have a lot to do with it.

I am sure the sun does not help but normally does not hurt.

You may just need to get a new lnb. There are some really cheap to buy ones flea bay.
if you don't want to throw a bunch of money on one.
 
...

So the question arises, what happened? I'm wondering maybe if a layer of highly reflective frost/ice built up on the dish (CM 10 foot painted black) and managed to reflect enough solar energy into the throat of the lnb. Possible?

Years ago, I read a post from someone who sprayed water on his dish during a solar outage, and the heat from the reflected sunlight fried the lnb...... but I never really believed it. Reason is, It seems to me that the heat from such a reflection would be concentrated on the entrance to the waveguide, not on the lnb... seems to me that there would be more heat on the LNB at times other than right at the solar outage time..... and I really don't think that RF from the sun could affect the LNB, whereas heat definitely can fry an lnb (I've had LNBs killed by heat). But it seems like this has been reported by several people, so maybe it does happen.
 
Thanks for responses, guys. As a followup, the lnb is now working again and here is how.

I removed the back of the Cal-Amp lnb and found inside an accumulation of white powder around the connection between the input wire and the card. I cleaned this away and apart from discoloration it looked as if it should work, so I reconnected it to the receiver to see if there was some kind of strength. Nope.

With the lnb still connected I used a multimeter and found a correct voltage at the input wire inside the box but no voltage anywhere on the card. Next I briefly shorted the input wire to the closest connection wires on the card and the signal strength leapt to 90%+.

With the lnb disconnected I dripped a few drops of solder onto the board to recreate the short. It took me 3 tries but eventually got the strength back, put the lnb back in the array and now it is getting signal again.

My inexpert evaluation is that water penetration at some point reacted with the voltages present and corroded part of the board, isolating the card from the voltage and the signal. I have been a bit careless about using the weather boots on my lnbs since I am constantly fiddling with them. Might be a good investment to spend some time ensuring no water entry. My repair might not last very long, but time enough to get a new supply of lnbs in.
 
that white oxidation is usually a result of aluminum and moisture and air.
I had a pair of Norsat PLL lnbs that had that white stuff in them and they quit working.
I asked Norsat about them and they said to discard them and replace (of course...they sell them LOL)
 
Years ago, I read a post from someone who sprayed water on his dish during a solar outage, and the heat from the reflected sunlight fried the lnb...... but I never really believed it. Reason is, It seems to me that the heat from such a reflection would be concentrated on the entrance to the waveguide, not on the lnb... seems to me that there would be more heat on the LNB at times other than right at the solar outage time..... and I really don't think that RF from the sun could affect the LNB, whereas heat definitely can fry an lnb (I've had LNBs killed by heat). But it seems like this has been reported by several people, so maybe it does happen.

I have a 3.2 metre D&H spun aliminum dish in the mid east and I attached a temperature sensor to the LNB(Ivacom quad) because it began failing. When the ambient temperature was 46C the sensor recorded 69C on the LNB feedhorn. I was sure that must have been dish radiated heat. I used to cool the LNB with a small bore water tube from the plants irrigation system especially during football matches!
 
Well, I will tell you about my brother's C-Band business.

He had an installation service to go along with his TV and Radio repair service in western Nebraksa. He told me that some people would paint their C-Band dishes (BUDs) white or maybe silver because they didn't like the looks of this huge black or gray thing out in the middle of their yard.

When the solar alignment would occur, there was enough heat reflected right to the LNBF that it would melt it into a puddle of plastic!

Radar
 
Interesting comments... I also head of a guy who deliberately set up a C-Band dish to track the sun and set up a car radiator to circulate water through it to heat his bath. The solar heat unsoldered all the connections in the rad.

After thinking about my original issue for a while, it seems to me that since chemical processes happen more quickly as temperature rises, the corrosion that occurred in my lnb would not be a steady gradual accumulation. It would happen faster when the lnb was hot for whatever reason, and slow down when cold. And a solar outage would be just the kind of event that would make failure at that time more likely.

The original thought was that the heat by itself would destroy the lnb, which it did not in this case. It's a 'post hoc, procter hoc' (after it, therefore because of it) type of reasoning. However the heat did play a role in the problem, but only indirectly, being only one element in a complex process..
 
I like the Latin reference, and am grateful for the translation. It's true that most of us tend to attribute coincidences to cause. I've had 3 LNBs go bad over the years. One LNB went bad after a week of > 100 deg temperatures when I lived down in Md, so I blamed that on the temperature. I had another LNB go bad seemingly unrelated to anything I could think of other than being an unreliable brand (Eagle/Aspen) although I now see that these are getting more popular. My third LNB to go bad happened in the dead of winter when the temps got down around 10-15 deg, although this LNB would get better when the temps got even lower, sub zero, and was OK again when it got warmer. It was only bad when in the 10-15 deg range. So anyway, I've had high temperature failures, low temperature failures, and unrelated failures. I've never had a failure associated with a solar outage period, but I'm sure eventually I will. The only failure that was certainly temperature related was the 10-15 deg thing, because it was very repeatable. Happened every day when the temp got into that range.
Generally from a chemical process standpoint, I think that keeping an LNB warm is a good thing, because if the LNB is warmer than the outside air, then the relative humidity inside the LNB will be low, and you're less likely to get condensation. Ie in high humidity areas, I think condensation is more of an issue than temperature. I think this is one of the problems with using these 4x1 DiseqC switches, because you aren't running any power through 3 of the 4 LNBs connected, so they are allowed to cool down to ambient temperature, and they can easily experience condensation inside the feed at least, and possibly inside the LNB itself, when the relative humidities go up at night. If you keep an LNB powered up, it's pretty unlikely that you'll ever get moisture condense inside your feed.
I've heard of people who have cooked the entrance of the feed, but I'm still a little skeptical about cooking the actual LNB itself. It's certainly possible if you have a highly reflective dish, like a wet solid surface dish, but since the solar outages aren't at the hottest time of the year, and since the outages only last about 10 minutes, and since the actual electronics aren't at the focal point, while melting the plastic caps is likely, I wonder how hot the actual LNB electronics would get.
This gets into another issue, at least for BUD owners, ie the question of whether to use the big black plastic feed covers. Since I was for a while convinced that the 100 deg temps killed one of my LNBs, I often take the covers off during the summer time, and put them on it the winter. This also had the advantage or reducing the chance of getting stung by wasps that tend to build nests inside those covers. But I often wonder whether an lnb exposed to direct sunlight would get hotter than an lnb inside a black cover. Most LNBs are a light color that would reflect at least the visible part of the spectrum, but you never know about the IR part which is more related to the heat.
Before I retired, I used to work in a lab where we tested military electronics in all sorts of environments, from -40 to +140, in all sorts of humidities, and sun loading and other severe conditions. While not many devices were able to function through the extremes, most came back to life after you got back to ambient conditions. we seldom saw electronics actually "killed" by the temperature extremes.
Bottom line is, related to the Latin phrase above, I think we all have a lot of opinions about things like this that are probably all based on coincidences.
 
Status
Please reply by conversation.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 2)

Latest posts