Charles Dolan to buy Voom Back?

[SonicRob]

According to EchoStar, the direct broadcast satellite (DBS) is Rainbow 1, located at 61.5 degrees west longitude. The satellite deal with Cablevision subsidiary, Rainbow DBS Co., which controls Voom also will give EchoStar rights to 11 of the satellite's 13 frequencies.

By purchasing these Voom assets, DISH may begin to offer more HDTV channels, as the technology becomes less expensive and more ubiquitous. No official word from EchoStar yet on how this purchase will improve DISH service.

According to Bloomberg, Cablevision Chairman Charles Dolan and his son, both of whom had opposed the sale of Voom, may attempt to buy Voom's remaining assets, predicted to sell for $200 million

The FCC has to aprove it first so Charles Dolan might have some tricks under his sleeve and with all the people emailing him it only motivates him to continue with his dream the most HDTV so don't count Charles Dolan out yet.

 

[dfergie]

According to EchoStar, the direct broadcast satellite (DBS) is Rainbow 1, located at 61.5 degrees west longitude. The satellite deal with Cablevision subsidiary, Rainbow DBS Co., which controls Voom also will give EchoStar rights to 11 of the satellite's 13 frequencies.

By purchasing these Voom assets, DISH may begin to offer more HDTV channels, as the technology becomes less expensive and more ubiquitous. No official word from EchoStar yet on how this purchase will improve DISH service.

According to Bloomberg, Cablevision Chairman Charles Dolan and his son, both of whom had opposed the sale of Voom, may attempt to buy Voom's remaining assets, predicted to sell for $200 million

The FCC has to aprove it first so Charles Dolan might have some tricks under his sleeve and with all the people emailing him it only motivates him to continue with his dream the most HDTV so don't count Charles Dolan out yet.

BUD ?

 

[GadgetRick]

Here we go again...

Why is it nobody around here believes Dolan is a business person?? He's NOT going to buy Voom back. It's a LOSING proposition and he's just NOT going to use his OWN money to fund it! If he were going to do that he would have bought the satellite and/or split off from CVC once CVC gave him heat about the costs (you can't possibly believe that meeting last week was the first time he got heat from CVC??).

I'd love to think Voom will continue as it is now, however, we all need to face the facts...in this day and age the Voom concept is a money pit. Everybody now knows this, it's not just speculation anymore. Voom lost a LOT of shareholders' money over the last year plus. If I were a CVC shareholder I'd be a little ticked about the money they spent on Voom, too.

Voom is a great idea for people like us but, face it, there just aren't a lot of us out there. Certainly not enough to sustain a business model like Voom. Stop hanging onto hope and move on already!!!!!!

The Rickster

 

[r.jones1116]

Why is it nobody around here believes Dolan is a business person?? He's NOT going to buy Voom back. It's a LOSING proposition and he's just NOT going to use his OWN money to fund it! If he were going to do that he would have bought the satellite and/or split off from CVC once CVC gave him heat about the costs (you can't possibly believe that meeting last week was the first time he got heat from CVC??).

I'd love to think Voom will continue as it is now, however, we all need to face the facts...in this day and age the Voom concept is a money pit. Everybody now knows this, it's not just speculation anymore. Voom lost a LOT of shareholders' money over the last year plus. If I were a CVC shareholder I'd be a little ticked about the money they spent on Voom, too.

Voom is a great idea for people like us but, face it, there just aren't a lot of us out there. Certainly not enough to sustain a business model like Voom. Stop hanging onto hope and move on already!!!!!!

The Rickster

Charles Dolan has many businesses that didn't make money the first few years that they operated. Heck, I believe CVC was one of them. What about the NY Knicks and Rangers, they certainly aren't making Dolan any money now. I wish he would sell the teams and use the money to fund Voom.
Stop being a naysayer and see what happens. All you pseudo-stock ANALyst think you know so much about big business. If your so good at it, why are you hangin' out in this forum.

 

[bradesp]

Charles Dolan has many businesses that didn't make money the first few years that they operated. Heck, I believe CVC was one of them. What about the NY Knicks and Rangers, they certainly aren't making Dolan any money now. I wish he would sell the teams and use the money to fund Voom.

Dude,

What are you smokin? I"ve started and sold many businesses. To compare CVC or Professional Sports to Voom is just not logical. CVC losses (like the losses E* experienced in the early years) are quite acceptable if the losses are fueling growth. Voom as 25K subscribers a year into this "experiement". E* had 1-2 Million! To continue funding Voom would not only be financial suicide, but professional suicide, it makes no sense.

Regarding professional sports, this is much like owning rental property. Rental properties are rarely cashflow neutral or postive for many, many years, however the asset appreciation and the eventual sale of the asset more than compensate the owners for their willingness to endure cash losses in the early years of ownership. Sports franchises work much this way. Additionally, the ego and prestige of owning a sports franchise vs owning a money losing venture that only appeals to us uber geeks isn't even worth discussing.

Sorry to be so harsh, but all we can really hope for is that E* decides to allocate some of the newly acquired bandwidth to increased HD transmission.

ymmv

bradesp

 

[Sean Mota]

SonicRob,

What is the source of the information? Please provide link or the source. Thanks.

 

[r.jones1116]

SonicRob,

What is the source of the information? Please provide link or the source. Thanks.

There are no sources to his information. This board is full of pseudo stock
analyst who think they know more than Charles Dolan.

Additionally, the ego and prestige of owning a sports franchise vs owning a money losing venture that only appeals to us uber geeks isn't even worth discussing..

A losing venture is a losing venture regardless of its association.
As far as a venture that only appeals to us uber geeks, have you gone into Bestbuy or Circuitcity lately. Analog TVs are on the way out, Digital/HDTVs will be all you will be able to buy in a couple of years.
I guess this was the same mindset when the world made the transition from B/W to color.

 

[Sean Mota]

According to Bloomberg, Cablevision Chairman Charles Dolan and his son, both of whom had opposed the sale of Voom, may attempt to buy Voom's remaining assets, predicted to sell for $200 million

The FCC has to aprove it first so Charles Dolan might have some tricks under his sleeve and with all the people emailing him it only motivates him to continue with his dream the most HDTV so don't count Charles Dolan out yet.

Well, did this come from Bloomberg.com after the sale or before the sale (1/20)?

As to the opinions of people, all of them are opinions and no one here knows any details beyond what has been published. ALL ARE SPECULATIONS yet I find it hard to read that people make their statements as fact, but they are all speculations. Unless one of them happen to be Charles Dolan, they know nothing as we all do not know anything at all. All is speculation.

 

[Tvlman]

Hey, I just bought a crystal ball too. Soon as it clears will get back to you with the latest on VOOM!

 

[GadgetRick]

Hmm...

Never said I was a stock guy.

And, although Dolan has had business which have lost money in the past, two things happened. First, as has been explained, the losses supported the growth. Voom has not been growing at all. And second, it wasn't HIS money!!! Why do you think companies go public? Why to gain money to expand of course! Oh, to gain money and expand but not to use your OWN money! He's not stupid. He's not going to spend millions of dollars of his own money on something which isn't going to make money!

And, if you believe those sports teams are actually losing money then you REALLY need to get a grip! A sports franchise in NY is like printing money. The best part is you can claim you're losing money because the books will only show you're paying $100 million in salaries (for the Knicks) while only brining in less than that in ticket sales. What about TV revenue, advertising revenue and, the biggest, merchandise sales. If sports franchises were such money losers NOBODY would want to invest in them! Also, as has been pointed out the franchise appreciates in value so they could sell it at any time and make a HUGE profit.

I'm not a stock guy, just someone who is looking at the situation with a realistic attitude. There's just no reason for anyone to pump money into Voom. It's an awful expensive hobby which means you need investors. Any investor (who, btw, WOULD know about stocks) just won't invest. You think Dolan hasn't spoken to other investors (it has been reported he has)? Of course he did and they didn't laugh at him but they certainly didn't give him any money. Why? Because they don't want to lose their money!!!

I think the best anyone can hope is Dish adds more HD programming (other than locals) but, honestly, I think that's a bit of a longshot, too. They're gearing up to beam more locals just like dtv is. They'll use the bandwidth for that first. Why? Because that will bring them subs and make them money. The 30k (or so) subs Voom has mean nothing to them at the end of the day. If we did they would have bought the subs as well.

The Rickster

 

[Sean Mota]

I'm not a stock guy, just someone who is looking at the situation with a realistic attitude. There's just no reason for anyone to pump money into Voom. It's an awful expensive hobby which means you need investors. Any investor (who, btw, WOULD know about stocks) just won't invest. You think Dolan hasn't spoken to other investors (it has been reported he has)? Of course he did and they didn't laugh at him but they certainly didn't give him any money. Why? Because they don't want to lose their money!!!

The Rickster

Who (besides CVC board members)?

 

[r.jones1116]

And, if you believe those sports teams are actually losing money then you REALLY need to get a grip! A sports franchise in NY is like printing money. The best part is you can claim you're losing money because the books will only show you're paying $100 million in salaries (for the Knicks) while only brining in less than that in ticket sales. What about TV revenue, advertising revenue and, the biggest, merchandise sales. If sports franchises were such money losers NOBODY would want to invest in them! Also, as has been pointed out the franchise appreciates in value so they could sell it at any time and make a HUGE profit.

Hmmm,
Rickster, if you haven't noticed, the NHL is on strike and the NBA overall has been a wash over the last few years.

 

[GadgetRick]

Who...

Believe me, Dolan has spoken with other people who have money. He knows people who invest and I'm sure he pitched them on it. Either way, they didn't bite.

And yes, the NHL is on strike. Why? Becuase they DON'T have the extra revenue to offset their losses on salaries the rest of the sports do. The NBA is hardly losing money. If they were, how can they give players millions of dollars to play? The NBA isn't as big (in merchandising) as it once was but it rakes in billions (that's billions with a B) which gets distributed throughout the league. They also have huge TV contracts and LOTS of advertising revenues. I'm not saying it's not possible to lose money but it's certainly hard to do so.

People have businesses all over the place which show a loss. I am in the financial world and see people every day with a business which shows a loss but the people are making a LOT of money and live in a million dollar home and drive a $100k car, etc. On paper it's easy to cry the blues.

Also, if it were such a bad thing why did a group of people start the Bobcats? Other than the NHL sports teams losing money is one of the biggest lies out there. They keep crying the blues and people believe them. They cry the blues as they give some player a $25 million signing bonus and a $15 million a year salary. Again, they're business people, they wouldn't do it if they weren't looking at a potential return.

Think of it this way. Say you start your own business. It costs $x to get it going. You're cool with that. It's going to cost a little to make money in the long run. Well, a year later your business is doing better but now it's costing you $x+50% to do business. How long would YOU keep that business alive if there were no signs of breaking even/showing a profit in the future? I'd venture to guess not very long.

Dolan may have been a, "visionary," whatever that means. He may have done some really good stuff for the industry but he's not stupid. If he were he wouldn't have accomplished what he has in his life. I'm guessing if you were in his situation you'd feel the same way--wishing you could continue your dream but realizing it just might not work out so why throw good money after bad?

The Rickster

 

[r.jones1116]

Dish Troll Alert!
Again GadgetRick, you claim to know so much about who Dolan has talked to but don't have/show any sources to your info.

 

[wmhjr]

Pure fantasy!

GadgetRick, you must be high. Thinking that other than the NHL no sports teams "really" lose money? What exactly are your sources? Please be specific - no smoke and mirrors. You see, if I can figure out how you know more than the rest of the civilized world, I need to let Montreal and Pittsburgh in on that little secret - among others. You know, there would be a real commercial product there. You could sell that secret.

The fact is that many teams DO lose money - in a big way. Specifically, small market teams that don't have the marketing potential in their area to recoup all that operating expense. It's a big expense. Of course a franchise in NY is like printing money. Just how many markets are there as large as NY, huh? Year after year I watch team rosters change to depricate what used to be teams with great potential, only because they could no longer afford the players. To say "The NBA is hardly losing money. If they were, how can they give players millions of dollars to play" is a completely ridiculous argument to apply to others. They pay for as long as they can, because they have to. And notice that not ALL the teams pay. Many pay next to nothing - which is exactly what they end up with. Which also degrades their marketability, further degrading their revenues.

Let me be perfectly clear. I also deal heavily in the financial market. Yes, there are LOTS of people driving expensive cars and living in expensive houses that run businesses at a loss. First of all, those are often "public" companies - meaning that their own assets are quite different than those of their company. However, of more importance, how many of those businesses continue to operate at that loss long term? To ask directly, exactly how many companies can you point me to that over the past 25 years continuously operated at greater than a 10% loss - excluding non-profits?

And yes, the NHL is on strike. Why? Becuase they DON'T have the extra revenue to offset their losses on salaries the rest of the sports do. The NBA is hardly losing money. If they were, how can they give players millions of dollars to play? The NBA isn't as big (in merchandising) as it once was but it rakes in billions (that's billions with a B) which gets distributed throughout the league. They also have huge TV contracts and LOTS of advertising revenues. I'm not saying it's not possible to lose money but it's certainly hard to do so.

People have businesses all over the place which show a loss. I am in the financial world and see people every day with a business which shows a loss but the people are making a LOT of money and live in a million dollar home and drive a $100k car, etc. On paper it's easy to cry the blues.

Also, if it were such a bad thing why did a group of people start the Bobcats? Other than the NHL sports teams losing money is one of the biggest lies out there. They keep crying the blues and people believe them. They cry the blues as they give some player a $25 million signing bonus and a $15 million a year salary. Again, they're business people, they wouldn't do it if they weren't looking at a potential return.

Think of it this way. Say you start your own business. It costs $x to get it going. You're cool with that. It's going to cost a little to make money in the long run. Well, a year later your business is doing better but now it's costing you $x+50% to do business. How long would YOU keep that business alive if there were no signs of breaking even/showing a profit in the future? I'd venture to guess not very long.

Dolan may have been a, "visionary," whatever that means. He may have done some really good stuff for the industry but he's not stupid. If he were he wouldn't have accomplished what he has in his life. I'm guessing if you were in his situation you'd feel the same way--wishing you could continue your dream but realizing it just might not work out so why throw good money after bad?

The Rickster

 

[uboatcmdr]

Charles Dolan has many businesses that didn't make money the first few years that they operated. Heck, I believe CVC was one of them. What about the NY Knicks and Rangers, they certainly aren't making Dolan any money now. I wish he would sell the teams and use the money to fund Voom.
Stop being a naysayer and see what happens. All you pseudo-stock ANALyst think you know so much about big business. If your so good at it, why are you hangin' out in this forum.

Let's see, I broke my ankle and am laid up for a few weeks with nothing to do. What's your excuse?

 

[wase4711]

Not going off topic, but there was a nice article in Forbes or Fortune a month or 2 ago, showing the REAL fiscal situation of ALL the NHL team owners; they cry the blues because some of them show losses from their NHL Franchises, but ALL OF THEM are Multi Millionaires from their "Other" business ventures; William Wirtz, owner of the Chicago Black Hawks, and one of the "cheapest" NHL owners out there, makes millions of $$$ from the Liquor Distribution business that his family controls in the Midwest, and he is just one example of how you can show losses on one business venture, yet make millions on others...
Not sure what alot of the posts in this thread have to do with VOOM....

 

[Sean Mota]

Believe me, Dolan has spoken with other people who have money. He knows people who invest and I'm sure he pitched them on it. Either way, they didn't bite.

The Rickster

Well, it is still an opinion. If you want us to believe, produce the facts!

 

[GadgetRick]

Puleeze...

Well first, I'm not trolling for Dish or anyone else. Just being realistic. And no, I don't have a news article to say Dolan spoke with X, it's called common sense. Having worked for publicly held companies before and having worked for a couple which have closed their doors I know that's how it works. When a company I worked for closed its doors the founder of the company didn't lose the money, it was investors' money.

As far as sports goes, I hear the same argument over and over yet I've not seen any hard numbers from anyone in any league (excluding the NHL) which shows ALL sources of revenue (including merchandising/advertising/TV contracts) while still showing a loss. Want to know why? They aren't publicly traded companies so they don't have to disclose what they make/lose. We have to take it on blind faith they are losing money. I just find it difficult to believe any of these guys are going to continue to lose the amount of money they claim they are for years and years. Just not gonna happen. I wouldn't do it and neither would you. At some point you'd say to yourself, "I'm losing too much money. I've got to get out." But that doesn't happen very often does it? Because they're making money elsewhere.

Again, I'm not saying there isn't a team or two who loses money but they aren't going to lose money for long or they will be sold/moved/out of the league they're in. You think owning a sports franchise is a hobby for some rich guy/gal to pump their hard-earned money into with no return?

Think about it. The Jets are working to have a new stadium built. The stadium is going to cost around $1.4 BILLION (I live in the area so I've been following it). The Jets are throwing in something like $800 MILLION of that. Now let's just do some math here. They play in the Meadowlands, which holds approximately 60,000 people. What's an average ticket price for a game, say, $50? If we use that the Jets bring in $3 Million per game on tickets (assuming a sellout. They only play 10 home games a year (not including potential playoffs and including 2 pre-season games which might not sell out). So they're bringing in about $30 Million in tickets. Where is the other $770 Million coming from!!??

The other thing people fail to realize (who may not live in a large-cap market) is the large cap teams will contribute a LOT more to the pool of money the various leagues have for revenue sharing or whatever they call it in their respective league. So the small cap teams receive money from these pools which aren't figured in when saying they're losing money.

It's an argument I've had with other people. Because they're not public companies it's hard to have a hard conclusion but, suffice to say, most teams just aren't losing money. They can't lose the kind of money they claim to be losing and still stay in business. And it is all about business...

The Rickster

P.S. I lost my voice at the Eagles game the other day so I can't make phone calls. That's my excuse.

 

[DobyMax]

this is tipical that when voom go down all of voom followers turn on each other and think that they no evrything but it makes no since that you are arguing when you dont rely know who is talking to who and who is not got the money voom is over and wont be back tahts it