Cinema channel question about 720P

vurbano

vurbano

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no ill stick with my increased detail thankyou and actually 720p was implemented due to limited bandwidth. It takes less bandwidth than 1080i and lets providers cheat the viewrs more easily when they want to turn up the compression. Ill let you know when that happens because you might not notice until its gotten really bad and everything looks like SD.
 
DarrellP

DarrellP

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My projector (720p) at 110" shows a far superior picture on HDNET, CBS and NBC vs ESPNHD or ABCHD
 
A

andrzej

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vurbano said:
then watch HDnet the 1080i picture is far superior than 720p

1080i versus 720p issue has been discussed ad nauseam. There are pros and cons of either one. Certainly, neither one is "far superior" than the other. There are more significant differences in PQ among 1080i (or 720p) programs than between 1080i and 720p format of the same program.
 
vurbano

vurbano

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rexoverbey said:
I read at the yahoo newsgroup that the cinema 10 channels were in 720p. My Tv doesn't display in this mode it displays in 1080i, 480i/p. Does this mean that it will be down converted to 480i/p or upconverted to 1080i with the same 720p quality? Also are they planning on setting the signal back to 1080i? I know 720p could technically be considered lower quality HD but when people think of HD they think of 1080i. Maybe this is why everyone has noticed lower picture quality.
If ever a thread was begging for a 720p vs 1080i debate this one is! lmao
 
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madpoet

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Quoth the Raven... "Nevermore." We're not ever going to agree.

-MP
 
seandudley

seandudley

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DarrellP said:
:no ROTFLMAO :D You should see our local Fox 480p "Enhanced" Widescreen, it sucks. :mad: It looks OK as long as they show closeups but as soon as they show a wide field image like a football field, the image really falls apart and shows it's true self: CRAP. DVD's look better than OUR Fox WS, I've heard others claim it's better but I can only speak for ours. :rolleyes:

At least your FOX offers you widescreen. My local affiliate, WTNZ doesn't pass the widescreen. They just send out 4x3 SD all the time no matter what. I called and asked when they were going to start passing widescreen, and they said they aren't intersted in passing widescreen in 480p, and will start passing it in September when Fox goes to 720p. At least they didn't say they will never pass widescreen.
 
DarrellP

DarrellP

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You're not missing anything from my experience with FOX 480p. I don't know if our station will ever pass on 720p, they can't even get the 4:3 channel right, it is always in a vertical stretch mode like it's anamorphic, and that's the channel that my Voom box picks up, if I want to watch Fox at all, I have to use my 6000.
 
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Gr8Reb8

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Mar 8, 2004
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480p from wxmi, my local Fox station, is often broadcast correctly at 16x9 and look as good as any good DVD. It almost rivals NBC and CBS HD.
 
DarrellP

DarrellP

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Gr8Reb8, you are probably one of the fortunate few who has a Fox station that upconverts to 720p or 1080i because if you saw Portland's WS Fox, you'd puke, it is not even close to the quality of a good DVD, maybe a mediocre DVD at best.
 
vurbano

vurbano

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Mine converts to 720p and it looks great. We are very lucky here that all the locals are very much into HD. except the WB. They are a big dissapointment here.
 
L

Lobstah

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Same thing here in Boston. FOX and HD are like military and music.


Lob
 
M

McJalison

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Sources, people

When you go to the movie theater, what are you watching? Movies are filmed at 24 frames per second, and by nature, film is progressive (whole whole picture is recorded at a single moment in time). In the theater, those 24 frames are doubled, meaning that each frame is seen 2 times for a total of 48 frames per second (all-be-it NOT 48 different looking frames). SOOOOO, if you are watching movies or dramas and you want to retain the "ethereal" mood of such productions, a progressive format is what is best. Why don't film guys like video besides the resolution issue? Write this down and look it up "temporal resolution". If you want "real" chose interlaced of any variety. If you want an artistic bent, choose progressive. If you are watching anything originated on film (CSI for example) on a 1080i screen, guess what... you are watching an interlaced progressive image (not to mention the whole 3:2 pulldown issue). If you are watching live sports, interlaced will give you the most "real, I feel like I'm there" look.
 
C

CraziFuzzy

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With the decline of tube based tv's, and the increasing prevelance of LCD, DLP, and LCoS sets, the broadcasters should start all migrating towards one or the other, either 1080i, or 720p, since the tv's are theoretically locked into one or the other. 720p displays are cheaper to produce. When talking about chip based displays, everything is "progressive" as there are no scan lines. 1080i signals are combined together, which, depending on how the broadcast is shot (whether it is a scanning camera, or a staring camera) you may see interlace errors on a 1920x1080 display LCD (or other matrix based) display. Now, since i actually have a 720 screen, obviously, I would prefer the broadcasters switch to 720p, and give me more channels, or less lossy compression on the same number of channels, that are already at the highest quality my tv can display. And the numbers of 720p displays are increasing. This may just be something that we are going to live with.. the future of HD may very well be 720p. Personally, I'm okay with that. Plus, my 720p display makes a VERY impressive computer monitor.. :) computers just don't look as good on an interlaced screen...
 
squicken

squicken

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I believe you just opened a can of worms.
 
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CraziFuzzy

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Well, can of worms or not, interlacing a video picture is just obsolete. It serves no real purpose in modern cameras, transmission systems, or displays. It is a dinosaur that was the product of less advanced elctronics (lower frequency response required) and slower screen phosphurs.

The real compromise would be a true 1920x1080p 60fps signal, but the bandwitdh required for this is well beyond a decent price point. The future of HD rests on the costs dropping so that customers don't have a reason to buy an SD screen.
 
Ferdy

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Let me jump in the middle of this war and try to get somewhat back on the original subject----ahem-----

Could someone please tell me why, when I set me VOOM STB to all native modes, when watching the CINEMA 10 channels, my monitor (Zenith R40W46, native resolutions of 480p and 1080i, reports back with "no signal"?

If I switch the box to 1080i only (top orange light on only) the set then can display these channels?

Please explain to me the up (or down) conversions that are going on here? And how the set handles different resolution modes?

Also, I was receiving one of my OTA channels just fine until a few days ago---then the box started reporting "no signal--blah blah" although when checking system status the signal strength and quality have not changed? I contacted the station and they reported back that nothing had changed on their end---still transmitting at same power @ 480p (KATC-DT 3.1 in Lafayette, LA)?

Thanks guys----

Ferdy
 
squicken

squicken

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I have a 1080i/540p display, and it does the same thing. Many 1080i fixed displays have trouble with the Cinema 10s when STB is in native mode, b/c cin. 10 are all 720p. Hopefully, next firmware will fix this. For now, I just use 1080i all the time on STB.
 
vurbano

vurbano

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cyuhnke said:
I have a 1080i/540p display, and it does the same thing. Many 1080i fixed displays have trouble with the Cinema 10s when STB is in native mode, b/c cin. 10 are all 720p. Hopefully, next firmware will fix this. For now, I just use 1080i all the time on STB.
I have a 1080i/540p display as well. And the future of HD is not 720p it is 1080p. Just ask Mark Cuban.

The following is a quote from Cuban. It is NOT on the topic of 1080p being the ultimate standard, but rather, it is on the topic of the trap of stations selling off bandwith to USDTV. But read it carefully and you can see that 720p is just dismissed as it should be and 1080p seems to be the next logical step. IMO 720p offers no benefit over 1080i.

"Quality is always relative. One of the ATSC options is 1080p. We will see TVs that support 1080p natively before we see codecs that support it and we wont see it in 5 to 7mbs ever. If a network, regardless of delivery goes in that direction, or an MSO/Sat starts restricting bandwidth to 5 to 7mbs, they are going to find themselves in a very bad position. Its a reason why I can never understand why a network goes 720p.. Even if you think there is a good technical reason for it, you wont ever get that bandwidth back, and you are the first to get shoved into a compressed codec for delivery.


As capture devices improve to 1080p and beyond, as TVs and display devices improve to 1080p and beyond, as codecs are capable of offering HDCam and then D5 quality in full bandwidth but certainly not in 5 to 7mbs, distributors or stations that chose to reduce bandwidth per station/network are going to find themselves caught in a trap."
 
R

ratam

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May 11, 2004
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San Francisco
Are the Voom SD channels broadcast in 480p? I am using a direct-view set that displays only 1080i and was not sure if it would make a visible improvement.
 

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