Current Issues with VOOM's PQ

[Sean Mota]

With all the threads that have been appearing lately regarding PQ issues for SD and HD channels. I have put together a list of specific problems with specific channels that we have talked about. This list is not the final list as there maybe other issues related to PQ that I am not aware of. I have not stated to increase bandwith in any of these channels because the implication is there. Feel free to post any other issues. I want to use this list to communicate with Wilt the issues we are all seeing. In order for this work, we have to be very specific and detail about the problem in hand.

I want to keep this thread clean of any rant(s). If you want to rant about any issues, create your own thread. If you want to contribute to the issues at hand or any new one(s), post details of the problem, channel where you see this, is it random or is it constant?, did it last a day or is it more than a day?

Update: Forgot to mention that it is important to state what type of connection you are currently using and the resolution. I have DVI and most of the time I am watching either on 1080i, Native, or 720p. I have seen these problems on all three resolutions.

Update 2: All unrelated comments will be deleted.

Voom Current Issues:​

Sparklies in (According to Wilt this is being currently worked on)

• 613 History Channel
• 610 ABC Family (as of 8/12 it has been fixed)
• 509 Comedy Central
• 505 TBS
• 403 HeadLine News (as of 8/12 it has been fixed)
• Cartoon Network (as of 8/12 it has been fixed)
• TLC
• BET (as of 8/12 it has been fixed)
• NICK (as of 8/12 it has been fixed)
• CNN (as of 8/12 it has been fixed)
• VH1
• E! (as of 8/12 it has been fixed)

Constant Sound Drop (Known problem since HDnews started but no solution yet)

• HDnews

Video noise - "white strips" breakup of video

• Very random behavior on all Premium Channels

Mosquito Noise (Known problem since Equator-HD started but no solution yet)

Note: There were two programs on Equator-HD (Earth Diaries and FilmScapes) that did not show the mosquito noise. Why? Do not know. But these two shows everytime it has been shown, have been cleaned. Does it imply that the mosquito noise problem is in the source of the program? Do not know.

• Equator-HD
• Rush-HD

Pixelation & Macro Blocking (Random Behavior)

• Starz-HD West
• HBO-HD West
• Showtime-HD West

Constant Macro Blocking

• Playboy-HD

Black Screen Pops up randomly while watching a program

• TNT-HD

 

[gutter]

I don't know if something with the new software (6.0) I got with my replacement box, but the video looked better on most channels last night. On TNT-HD at about 10:53 EDT, and for the next half hour, the picture would go black for a second and then return. sometimes the PQ would be less. But on the whole, I thought I dedicated an improvement. The movie I think was RUSH something with Jackie Chan. But I noticed an improvement on most of the channels. Again, I don't know if it is something they are actively doing or is the new software and box. And I have been a critic of VOOM PQ as being soft, colors lacking detail and contrast. But it had a WOW last night. Just trying to be fair both ways, Sean.

 

[Dvlos]

Mosquito Noise and pixelation affects all channels man, although most noticeable in Equator... Watch Bad Boys II on Cinemax when they give it in HD, then wait for night time or dark scenes, then look at the background you will notice the noise and the pixelation occuring heavily. Or look at objects that are like solid deep red or deep blue, you will notice noise and mosaic effects happening at times. It's obvious overcompression as the signal is grouping similar blues and reds together and it looks like freaking crap.

 

[Sean Mota]

Mosquito Noise and pixelation affects all channels man, although most noticeable in Equator... Watch Bad Boys II on Cinemax when they give it in HD, then wait for night time or dark scenes, then look at the background you will notice the noise and the pixelation occuring heavily. Or look at objects that are like solid deep red or deep blue, you will notice noise and mosaic effects happening at times. It's obvious overcompression as the signal is grouping similar blues and reds together and it looks like freaking crap.

I am looking for consistency in problems. You mention Cinemax. Which one, East or West? I watched Cabin Fever on Saturday on Cinemax-HD East and did not see any of the problems you mentioned. I watched HBO-HD West on Sunday (S.W.A.T) and only saw the white 'strips' of video break up. There were a lot of explotions on that movie.

The problems I mentioned above you can turn to the channel and see it right away without waiting for more than 5 minutes. The ones that are random are random. So instead of all channels which I am sure it happens at random at some time, I am looking to see where problems are easily seeing.

 

[Sean Mota]

gutter,

I have seen that problem on TNT-HD as well. The black screen comes up at random. It is not constant all the time but it seems to be on and off. I have watched movies or programs on TNT-HD without problems and then one day the "black screen" hits. I will post this above.

 

[fayrich]

Also see the momentary blackout on TNT HD, and then it returns.

 

[Dvlos]

I am looking for consistency in problems. You mention Cinemax. Which one, East or West? I watched Cabin Fever on Saturday on Cinemax-HD East and did not see any of the problems you mentioned. I watched HBO-HD West on Sunday (S.W.A.T) and only saw the white 'strips' of video break up. There were a lot of explotions on that movie.

The problems I mentioned above you can turn to the channel and see it right away without waiting for more than 5 minutes. The ones that are random are random. So instead of all channels which I am sure it happens at random at some time, I am looking to see where problems are easily seeing.

Sean,

It was Cinemax EAST feed... you can notice the pixelation and mosquito noise in one second of turning to these channels. What I noticed is that when you have an image that's real busy, like lots of trees, people, objects of varying type, the bandwidth must be dynamic enough that it raised to show all these objects clearly. It seems to happen mostly when you have an area of a similar color... like a curtain, a solid colored car, etc... if you look at the object, like stare at it not at the person talking, you can see pixelation, mosaic, and mosquito noise I'd say eight out of ten times. I thought it was my TV, but my in-laws have a 52" Philips RPTV Widescreen (mine is a 60" same style of TV) went to their place and through on Discovery HD.. they use DirectTV and I through on HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, and HBO HD, and did not see the same problems. They have some PQ problems, mainly on SD, and for some reason their image looks "softer" maybe it was also the TV size not 100% sure. Also when their is a fast shift in action, things tend to pixelate. These things just do not occur with the OTA channels like ABC/CBS and NBC (when they finally do show something in HD).

For my TV it's not "OMG CLAW YOUR EYES OUT EW!!" but it's not total HD hotness and it IS distracting. What I want Wilt, Voom, whoever makes the big dawg decisions in this company to know is, YES the average person can see these issues. No, you can't get away with twinkling down the bandwidth PQ to minimal levels and "no one will notice SHHH!!!".

 

[ChetK]

LOL...Still at it huh Sean?

 

[Dvlos]

LOL...Still at it huh Sean?

Aren't you a Dish subscriber, please move out the way so I can log some actual issues and hope they get resolved.

 

[ChetK]

Nope, not yet, but good luck getting those issues "logged" and "resolved".

 

[craigs2553]

I have seen the pixelation of deep reds on some of directv's channels, hd & sd channels.

 

[Dvlos]

I have seen the pixelation of deep reds on some of directv's channels, hd & sd channels.

WHich channels craigs? Judging by how some shows look crystal clear even with deep blues, and heavy reds, and don't pixelate as much, I take that as something that can be corrected. If it's bandwidth up it, I don't think it's the Moto STB or my TV because if it was an issue with rebuilding the digital signal, then OTA shows wouldn't exhibit this problem.

Also I've seen the ads for movies on Monsters and Equator on Voom's 999 then seen pieces of them on their actual channel and seen pixelation (not comparing same scene for same scene unfortunately just same movie to same movie.

Which is wierd because a channel like Gallery, which has a guy sitting in a room with solid bright colors running around white walls has NO pixelation what'so'ever. The artwork that is shown can often exhibit deep reds and blue, and the image is so detailed that you can see brush strokes, oil paint cracking, even freaking dust. What's the difference though is it because auction and gallery are slow moving and often hold a section of art or whatever frozen for a while almost like a still frame? That's another thing Auction and fashion never had pixelation issues, why?

 

[StingyScotsman]

Don't forget the low volume on Fox News Channel

That low volume attenuation is problematic. They must think that conservative thinking makes your ears extra sensitive.

 

[GadgetRick]

Other stuff

I'm sure we all know about the sound INCREASE on ESPN/ESPNHD. I think this may just be ESPN, however, since the same thing happens on DTV.

Also, was watching the Action Movie Channel the other night. Tried to watch The Big Red One but it was totally unwatchable. Looked like there was a screen in front of the camera. The compression was horrible. This WAS, "Ewww, claw you eyes out bad." I watched about 15 minutes of it before giving up.

Oops, I forget, did you mention the sparklies on Comedy Central?

The Rickster

 

[Sean Mota]

I agree about the sound variation but it looks like it comes from the providers. I wonder if there is a lot of variation in the 21 exclusive channels.

This is Wilt's response to the sound issue:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=145602&postcount=26

We found a few that are off quite a bit from reference. Those will be
adjusted, however, the vast majority of the services are pass through as
received and we have little control over.
Thing is, the dynamic range of the various feeds is also different, which
yields a difference in perceived loudness as well, so there will always be
some noticeable differences.
Having said that though, there were a few that are significantly off and
we'll do what we can to "normalize" those.
Thanks,
Wilt

 

[Dvlos]

Too bad ESPN doesn't broadcast in Dolby 5.1 ... oh well let's get back on topic, I noticed the bigger your TV set the worse SD channels look Gadget, you just can't fix that, that's where HDTV comes in.

 

[DarrellP]

Sean, I get the black picture blank out for about 1 second on any channel I watch and it happens with any connection: DVI, Component, S-Video or Composite. It happens on both my boxes.

 

[GadgetRick]

SD not a problem

Other than the sparklies, I have no problems with Voom's SD. Overall, I think it's very good. The problem I saw on Action wasn't something I'd ever seen before. I checked back yesterday and didn't notice the same thing.

The Rickster

 

[gammadude]

Got Voom last Sat. with v6.0 receiver.
Set-up: component, 1080i fixed, Toshiba CRT RPTV
A few PQ observations:

I've noticed severe pixelation watching an action movie on HBO-W that was minimal during the same film on HBO-E. Looks like the west feed may be sent at a reduced data rate than east since pixelation occurred during light to heavy motion. It was very distracting.

Add VH-1 to the sparkle list. Worst I've seen so far.

 

[Tvlman]

Since I also have DirecTV for NFL ticket I can state with certainty that I see these same problems mentioned with the Premier channels on DirecTV. I mean, they seem to be problems at origination points in many instances. When CBS for example has a problem via my OTA reception I switch to channel 81 on DirecTV and 9 of 10 times they are having the same problem. And many OTA problems are simply the local station transmission. Locally, ABC forgot to simulcast the Academy Awards in HDTV via OTA but it went out to cable and satellite. As far as the VOOM channels are concerned, I switched to component Monster cables and the "mosquito" noise went away. As far as "hanging" I can do that with my computer or cell phone if I give it too many commands in a short time. People who are used to SD changing channels rapidly have to be more patient with HDTV because you are essentially changing something the bandwidth of 4 SD channels. Since I first got HDTV in 2002 I have seen similar problems described with Time/Warner cable (blackouts & pixelization), DirecTV and VOOM. Weather, program origination problems, compression and the state of one's Home Theater all contribute.
I would like to see someone go into the nature of each complaint and tell us if it is more likely to be at the origination point, transmission, satellite, compression, STB or Home Theater but I am not an engineer. Thanks for asking, Sean.