D* Newbie w/questions on setup

[ggw2000]

I have been with Dish for many years and maybe it's time to look at other options. I know alot about Dish receivers/dishes/switches, etc but next to nothing about Directv stuff. I would like to outline what I am looking at and maybe someone could outline all the equipment involved in the installation for me. Would appreciate it muchly..

I want a HMC (hr34) hooked standalone to my main big screen tv in living room and this would be 5 tuners? (this can be done?)
I want 2 HD DVRs - one in each bedroom and they would be standalone also (HR24?) Are these single tuner receivers ?
I live in the Binghamton, NY area if it makes a difference.
What dish would they install for this? (slimline something)
I believe that there is a max tuners supported on the slimline dish and maybe some sort of switches would have to be installed?

Would Direct agree to this type of install without any hassle?

Thanks in advance,

Gerry

 

[raoul5788]

I'm sure Directv will install what you want, but you will have to pay something for it. New customers get the best deals, so make sure you get what you want initially. Usually a new customer gets the HR34 for $99, an hd dvr for free, and the second one for either $99 or $199, I'm not sure which. The dvrs are all dual tuners. They will have to give you a Slimline dish with a swm setup since the HR34 requires it. The other equipment you need will come with the install. You should call and ask exactly how much it would be. You will also get programming discounts being a new customer.

 

[jdspencer]

If yoou go with two additional HR24's DirecTV will install a non-SWM LNB with the SWM16 to allow for the 9 tuners you need.
You could reduce that to 8 tuners if you just get an HD receiver for one of the bedrooms.
To share programming between receivers/DVRs you' need the MRV equipment.
Your installation isn't anything special that DirecTV would give you any hassles over.

I'm also in the Binghamton area, welcome to the DirecTV family.
Your location says Fingerlakes, which lake?
Do you commute from Binghamton?

 

[ggw2000]

If yoou go with two additional HR24's DirecTV will install a non-SWM LNB with the SWM16 to allow for the 9 tuners you need.
You could reduce that to 8 tuners if you just get an HD receiver for one of the bedrooms.
To share programming between receivers/DVRs you' need the MRV equipment.
Your installation isn't anything special that DirecTV would give you any hassles over.

I'm also in the Binghamton area, welcome to the DirecTV family.
Your location says Fingerlakes, which lake?
Do you commute from Binghamton?

Thanks for the info! I haven't done anything to this point as I have been busy during week and out of town on weekends. I live in the southern tier but go up to our camper on cayuga lake on the weekends. That season is winding down however as the weather will be changing before long .
You mention getting down to 8 tuners by getting one HD receiver. Is it possible to put an external HDD on this receiver to turn it into a DVR like dishes 211k that I currently have
two of? If so, what is the model number of the HD receiver?
Thanks and sorry about the late response,
Gerry

 

[texasbrit]

No, you can't add an external drive to a receiver.
You might also consider the new C31 client for the HR34 server, when it becomes available in your area (no idea when that will be). The C31 is a very small box that sits next to your TV and gives access to the HR34 tuners, so you can watch live TV, set up a recording or watch one. You can have up to three C31s associated with each HR34.

 

[Mr Tony]

The reason sometimes we mention going to 8 tuners is the install cable wise is much easier

one cable from dish to splitter
one cable to each receiver
a simple 8 way SWM splitter is used

If you have more than 8 tuners its 4 lines from the dish and a huge SWM16 (think DPP44+ size) in the house somewhere

 

[BobStokesbary]

Gerry,

You show a lot of DVRs in your configuration. You may not need all these separate units. Once the HR34 is connected to your feed from the satellite dish it does not take any additional wiring to share its contents with other receivers connected your dish. This is done via the Whole Home DVR setup that works with Directv's SWM setup (which as noted is required for the HR34). You can control recordings from other rooms on the HR34 with a standard HD receiver. So you get a lot of recording power with just the HR34. Plus, there is a new unit (C-31) due out next month that can control your HR34 via Whole Home DVR and does not have a tuner in it. It works via the HR34.

But, rather than just discuss equipment, it would be more helpful if you described what you are trying to accomplish with your setup. This would allow a better answer to your questions. In realistic terms it is almost impossible to watch all the programs you can store on an HR34.
Bob

 

[ggw2000]

The reason sometimes we mention going to 8 tuners is the install cable wise is much easier

one cable from dish to splitter
one cable to each receiver
a simple 8 way SWM splitter is used

If you have more than 8 tuners its 4 lines from the dish and a huge SWM16 (think DPP44+ size) in the house somewhere

Iceberg, I wouldn't like the four lines coming in but it could be done. One line would be real nice! I currently have a dpp44 so I know about size. One plus is that everything is in unfinished basement and ran down the rafters. RG6 is also run to bedrooms and main tv from dpp44. Thanks for info. Gerry

 

[ggw2000]

Y

Gerry,

You show a lot of DVRs in your configuration. You may not need all these separate units. Once the HR34 is connected to your feed from the satellite dish it does not take any additional wiring to share its contents with other receivers connected your dish. This is done via the Whole Home DVR setup that works with Directv's SWM setup (which as noted is required for the HR34). You can control recordings from other rooms on the HR34 with a standard HD receiver. So you get a lot of recording power with just the HR34. Plus, there is a new unit (C-31) due out next month that can control your HR34 via Whole Home DVR and does not have a tuner in it. It works via the HR34.

But, rather than just discuss equipment, it would be more helpful if you described what you are trying to accomplish with your setup. This would allow a better answer to your questions. In realistic terms it is almost impossible to watch all the programs you can store on an HR34.
Bob

Bob, you are correct, I need to explain what I am trying to accomplish. With Dish I have always had standalone receivers. On the main tv in lr we do a lot of recording especially prime time. My 722k only has 2 tuners and I'm continually running into situation where I need more tuners. In the one bedroom my wife has a computer setup along with a 211k w/ext hdd. She records all her soaps on it, etc and it is hooked to a small tv next to her monitor. The 211k w/ext hdd that is in the spare bedroom is not normally used a lot but we take it to the lake on weekends in the summer. This is why I need a standalone hddvr there. I suppose if a regular hd receiver could access the hr34 for watching tv and recordings with pause functions etc then that might work for the wife. Does that setup require any extra cabling or is communication done over the rg6 cable? Suggestions ?
Gerry

 

[harshness]

Whole Home DVR service can happen across just the RG6 and the professional installation will come with everything required. The difference from the ViP211 setup is that you have to be more diligent with it about recording what you're watching if you want to do trick play stuff as a receiver won't allow that unless the content is being (or has been previously) recorded.

Your camper setup should also be running off of an SWM dish to make setup less painful. It would be very beneficial to have the dish mounted permanently as aiming it is more finicky than with a DISH dish. I'll assume that you've already evaluated the line-of-sight situation towards the DIRECTV satellite constellation from both locations.

 

[ggw2000]

Whole Home DVR service can happen across just the RG6 and the professional installation will come with everything required. The difference from the ViP211 setup is that you have to be more diligent with it about recording what you're watching if you want to do trick play stuff as a receiver won't allow that unless the content is being (or has been previously) recorded.

Your camper setup should also be running off of an SWM dish to make setup less painful. It would be very beneficial to have the dish mounted permanently as aiming it is more finicky than with a DISH dish. I'll assume that you've already evaluated the line-of-sight situation towards the DIRECTV satellite constellation from both locations.

The first paragraph is painful to say the least! In other words you cannot pause live tv from a hdreceiver that is running off the HR34 if I reading you correctly. This just won't work for the wife . That means 2 HDDVRs and 9 tuners from what i'm hearing.
I believe the sats are at like 101 & 103 if I remember correctly? Are the HD locals for Binghamton DMA also on these locations?
I have to do some looking at the lake as I currently have a 1000.4 dish permanently mounted but of course this is hitting 61.5 to 77. A SWM would be considerably to the west as far as pointing.
I do appreciate everyones knowledge here for sure! Will research more and discuss with wife after labor day to see what would make the best scenario for us.
If anyone has any more pointers I would appreciate it.
Thanks, Gerry

 

[texasbrit]

....but if you wait for the C31 client, that CAN pause live TV from the HR34....

 

[BobStokesbary]

Gerry,
Unfortunately, your question comes at a time where some of D*'s technology is about to change. So, unless you need to drop the hammer this month, waiting a bit might well work to your advantage. You are quite correct noting that a program cannot be paused on a receiver; it takes a DVR for this. But as texasbrit points out, D* is about to release a new "unit" that apparently will allow you to interact with an HR34 like it was a local receiver. What is really nice about this new unit is that it does not contain a tuner so it does not add to the tuner count.

But, if you made the decision to go forward today, do not be intimidated by talk about a SWM-16 unit. On a new install it is included when necessary. And the four wires mentioned earlier only go from the LNB to the switch which is usually installed under the eves which leaves only two lines that come into the house. (The power source uses one of the coax lines to run power from inside the house to the switch.)

This is one of the reasons I always try to understand what people are trying to accomplish because being too exact with a CSR usually gets you what you ask for and not what you really wanted. With your recording requirements you do appear to fall into the HR34 as a central server, and an possibly an additional HR24 for some of the other programming. Plus, if you want to take a receiver along on your camper trips, I find it very nice to have a DVR along on trips in our RV. After all, I don't want to have to be back at the rig just to see a show. It takes a bit more equipment to carry a SWM setup along on RV trips, but I find it worthwhile.

On edit: I stand corrected. Solid Signal just released a "first look" video on the C31 unit. You can see it here.
Food for thought,
Bob

 

[fs2685]

This thread has been helpful to me since I just ordered new D* service, switching over from Dish after ~10 years.

I'm getting an HR34 plus an additional HD DVR. As I understand from above, there will be

"one cable from dish to splitter
one cable to each receiver
a simple 8 way SWM splitter is used"

My question is how is the system connected to the internet. I'd like to connect by ethernet rather than wireless if possible. I have a router with a couple open ports easily accessible. Does the network cable go to each receive or to the splitter, or somewhere else?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[BobStokesbary]

If your router is close to where you have the HR34 installed the "best" solution is to run a cat-5 cable from your router directly into your HR34. The HR34 can act as a connection point for internet services. This will make internet services (on demand) available to all DVRs on your system. Short of that the installer will connect a box called a CCK (Cinema Connection Kit) into your coax line that will do the same thing for all your HD DVR units.

And you are spot on with all your other assumptions.

 

[harshness]

"one cable from dish to splitter
one cable to each receiver
a simple 8 way SWM splitter is used"

There's obviously no need for an 8-way splitter if you're only going to have two boxes. The fact of the matter is that you can only have up to four boxes (if one is an HR34) as the SWM dish will only support 8 tuners and the HR34 has five. Given your configuration, there's literally room for only a non-DVR in addition to what you're ordering. A four-way is all you need and anything bigger is a negative.

It is also notable that the splitters are DIRECTV proprietary.

 

[raoul5788]

There's obviously no need for an 8-way splitter if you're only going to have two boxes. The fact of the matter is that you can only have up to four boxes (if one is an HR34) as the SWM dish will only support 8 tuners and the HR34 has five. Given your configuration, there's literally room for only a non-DVR in addition to what you're ordering. A four-way is all you need and anything bigger is a negative.

It is also notable that the splitters are DIRECTV proprietary.

Why would using a swm8 be a negative? If you terminate the unused ports, there would be no signal loss.

 

[harshness]

Why would using a swm8 be a negative?

Since we're talking splitters, I'm going to assume that you meant SWS8.

If you terminate the unused ports, there would be no signal loss.

First and foremost, termination provides for balanced impedance that yields maximum power transfer. Secondly, it prevents signal leakage. Both are very good things.

Termination doesn't impact insertion loss which, for a SWS8 is remarkably high. According to the specifications on the Solid Signal website, the maximum loss on a SWS2 is 4.5dB (crappy as conventional splitters go). That means that a minimum of 35.48% of the incoming signal is coming out of each port. The drop on the SWS8 is 13-18dB which yields an output signal percentage in the single digits.

Apples to apples, the signal coming out of an SWS2 is about 20 times that of the signal coming out of a SWS8 given the same input signal.

Note that this loss impacts both the satellite signal and the DECA signal.

 

[raoul5788]

Since we're talking splitters, I'm going to assume that you meant SWS8.First and foremost, termination provides for balanced impedance that yields maximum power transfer. Secondly, it prevents signal leakage. Both are very good things.

Termination doesn't impact insertion loss which, for a SWS8 is remarkably high. According to the specifications on the Solid Signal website, the maximum loss on a SWS2 is 4.5dB (crappy as conventional splitters go). That means that a minimum of 35.48% of the incoming signal is coming out of each port. The drop on the SWS8 is 13-18dB which yields an output signal percentage in the single digits.

Apples to apples, the signal coming out of an SWS2 is about 20 times that of the signal coming out of a SWS8 given the same input signal.

Note that this loss impacts both the satellite signal and the DECA signal.

Yes I meant sws8, not swm8. As to your assertion that there is a significant enough signal loss to call it a negative, you of course have experienced this first hand, yes? Wouldn't those same numbers you just quoted affect any receivers/dvrs connected to a sws8?

 

[ggw2000]

I'm sure that back in Feb timeframe I had checked and all 4 networks (CBS,abc,NBC,fox) were available in Binghamton, NY in HD. I was just on their website and it appears that FOX is no longer there! This will not work for me after all. I guess I'll just wait awhile at this point but I have learned a lot and appreciate it! Gerry