Dish Network trying to kill Pansat and Legal FTA

[magnigyro]

LOL, Good point. I have the same situtation, no circular LNB, never really needed one.

No Nasa channel? Have you bud?

Chanel 213 from DN is one of my favorites... I use Pansats, I love them and I want to keep them clean and healthy...

I have so many FTA channels and not the enough time for watching TV.

My first FTA was NASA channel when I knew its free, you know, matter of time I decided to enter to the major leagues, searching FTA is my favorite hobby.

Except the circular lnb for 119W (Nasa channel) now I use linear lnb´s for:
58W (cubavision), 72W, 74W, 79W, 83W, 87W, 93W, 95W, 97W, 101W, 116.8W, 123W, 125W and 129W (WS).

Who needs take risk with our valuable receivers with so much to watch?

 

[DSS Fan]

FTA issue

Someone should tell Ergan (if he is the one causing a stir) to pack sand.

 

[glen4cindy]

Someone should tell Ergan (if he is the one causing a stir) to pack sand.

I thought that was POUND SAND

That's what Bill Handel says on the radio!

 

[jamestheman]

Yeah, I live in a town where nobody, and I mean nobody knows anything about fta! I just bought a used channel master 1.2 meter dish and put it up and I swear I have had some crazy looks!! lol!! What I think is wrong about all this is us old school feed chasers! Has any of you every seen a wild feed on dish or direct? If you were to talk to 10 people nowdays and ask them if they even know what a live news feed is 9.5 of them will say no!

I understand not everyone is interested in what we are, we are in our own little clique, however, I would bet that if everyone knew what fta is really all about and what cool stuff they could pick up out there that they would consider purchasing the equipment and maybe dropping the providers.

The truth is you can go online and buy a nice motorized dish setup with a nice fta receiver with shipping and all and get it for under $300! With that you can get your normal channels on 123, and then catch almost all your games on feeds which I like better anyways since I can occaionally hear some good gossiping during halftime or the breaks! lol!


You guys all know what I am saying, I used to be a dish subscriber and was dishing out $110 a month for maybe 12 channels I actually watched. The providers are doing this to theirselfs. I understand they dont want everyone hacking them, and the truth is 98 pct of the fta boxes are hacked! I will not be a hippocrite and say I have never done hacking in my day, I have just like most people have.


However, what about us guys who are legit? We cant get our wild feeds without fta! I would hate to know I will never catch a good ole crazy feed again! To me the regular stuff gets boring, stalking the feeds never has gotten boring to me!

I have heard about the regular stuff being considered illegal! I had a direct tv guy tell me I better be careful, I told him he had better be careful talking to me that way because I dont have to settle my battles with fancy lawyers, I have other ways to do so!

This is a great forum guys, and now that I have more time I am going to be in here a bit. Sorry if I got too far on the hack talk, I was just trying to make a point.

Thanks

 

[Tyralak]

I thought that was POUND SAND

That's what Bill Handel says on the radio!

Bill Handel is a d*ck.

 

[glen4cindy]

Bill Handel is a d*ck.

Very true. I can only stand a few minutes of him before I have to turn the dial!

 

[Tyralak]

Very true. I can only stand a few minutes of him before I have to turn the dial!

Same thing with Dr. Laura. I don't disagree with her on most things, per se. However she sounds like a nagging, ill tempered old woman with a pinecone up her ass. I can't stand the sound of her voice.

 

[jericho07]

Does anyone know if there have been any further developments in this case?

 

[Mr Tony]

not that I've seen

 

[Cadsulfide]

On a side note, Charlie is being sued by the feds for violating the do not call registry, again.

 

[RVD420]

If Dishnetwork would get their signals secure then people would not use fta receivers for less than legitimate reasons.

Problem solved.

 

[glen4cindy]

If Dishnetwork would get their signals secure then people would not use fta receivers for less than legitimate reasons.

Problem solved.

Some responsibility should be on the shoulders of the FTA STB manufacturers to design the box in such a way as to not accept hack firmware, if this is even possible.

The program used to load the firmware should be able to see that it is not approved by the maker and refuse to load at all.

I don't know is this is even possible, or if the hackers use some kind of blacklist loader or whatever.

I guess it's like what DTV used to face until the took charge of the encryption when people loaded cards with hackware. Eventually, they seem to have made this impossible.

If the boxes would not function without valid manufacturer firmware, the problem would be addressed from the front end. The hackers would be left with card hacking if that even exists anymore.

I could be all wrong about this, but, it seems like there is blame on both sides. If E* would have chosen a different transmission format then DVB like D* did, then we would have have hackers altering the FTA intended boxes at all.

 

[melgarga]

The real liability lies with Nagravision, and with Echostar itself. It is an (intentionally?) mismanaged and insecure system and the FTA design/mfgrs simply exploited a lucritive market. Is that right, no, and I'm not saying that makes piracy justifiable, but it is human nature. Capitalism at it's best. Who said the Asians cant learn anything from western civialization?
Nagra had four different main itterations of the Nagra1, with half a dozen bug fix patches each. Three main itterations for the Nagra2, several sub variants, for ExpressVu and embedded CAM IRDs and at least 9 bug patch updates for Nagra2 alone and they still didnt get it right.
If Echostar wanted to take FTA down, it could have done so with current technology. That would still leave the traditional 'card bangers' and the PC based emulation SW developers, to deal with, but the potential for dynamic rotation of ECMs would have kept those users frustrated.
The question arises, does Ergen want the security enforced. Indications are no, implying a twisted bussiness sense logic. Every PPV or premium teir program that is obtained without cost, is a loss for every provider, Comcast, DTV etc. as well as DN. Initially that worked well for Dish since most in that scene were subscribers to begin with. Everything they got from Charlie for free, meant a program the competition didnt get to sell at all. Churn rate for non DN providers was rising. More marketshare losses for the competition. Now, enter DVB equipment (FTA rx's) that can be and are specifically designed to be programed to DECODE the Echostar signals and everything changes.
Now Charlie is loosing subs, because one no longer needs Echostar equipment to capture Echostar signals. (Some might profess he deserved it) The flourishing FTA market has forced a complacent and indifferent DN to finally act on the piracy issue.
We as True FTA user have benifited indirectly as well, in the way of feature rich DVB units at a reasonable price. With out this driving force, this nitch market would be underdeveloped, with no motivation to develop or improve features, and equipment would be very pricy. I suspect we will continue to enjoy the next few months in the way of clearance prices IF Nagra 3 doesnt become compromised. If it does, all bets are off.
BTW, DSS is proprietary, but no less 'hackable' than DVB. The FTA designers have shown no consideration for proprietary property, so there is no reason to believe they would for DTV. What keeps DTV secure is the allegedly sound CAM, yet a disgrundled or greedy insider's release of expoitation info out the back door, like with VCII, or a competition driven RE project, like with N1, would put DTV in the crosshairs of the same guys that have exploited Echostar's poor security and questionable business practices.

 

[Claude Greiner]

As a satellite dealer, I have been around this industry long enough to see through this scam.

I tried to get into selling FTA satellite before we had the problems with illegal software, and the problem was that nobody wanted anything to do with it. It was at the point back then you couldn't even give the equipment away to the average customer who only speaks english. The only customers in my area even slightly intrested in it where the Arabic customers since there was some Free Arabic channels available on Telstar5.

The biggest issue for people was the cost, and eventually the equipment prices came down to the point where it was affordable for more people. Still, American (English only speaking) customers did not come to me looking for equipment, the only people who wanted FTA satellite where the ethnic customers and I was not a part of that side of the business since to generally get those customers you need to work off referals from their friends and family and I just never got into that loop to get those customers.

The intrest in FTA satellite from "American" customers started around this time in 2005 when the black bird FTA receivers came out which was the first hacked FTA receiver. Eventually, Pansat, Coolsat, and Viewsat got wise to this scam and decided to come up with their own version of equipment that could be easily hacked.

What a scam the FTA manufactures have going on, they sell a product that can easily be re-programmed with illegal software, and then hire programmers to crack the code, write illegal software for their product and release it through the back door on the internet so they can continue to sell more boxes, yet claim their product is intended for ligitiment purposes only.

As a dealer I see this go on every day, I get emails and phone calls from people asking me what type of Dish and or switch to use with their Pansat receiver so they can pick up 119, 110 or 61.5. Usually I just tell the customer I can't help them and tell them to have a nice day, but seriously what the hell is in the clear on any of the primary DISH Network satellites worth investing in a Dish, Switch and FTA receiver unless your planning on stealing signals.

Maybe for every 100 emails or phone calls I get for people asking for my help to buy dish approved accessories so they can steal programming (which I won't help them) I might get maybe 1 or 2 people asking for a 30 inch Dish with an FSS LNB to pick up true FTA.

For those of you who think there is this big FTA community out there, your looking at it right here. Beyond the members on this forum, there is nobody out there intrested in doing ligitiment FTA.

Nobody just walks in off the street and decides they want to get a ligitiment FTA system, unless they want ethnic channels or want it because their friend has a FTA receiver that gets all the DISH Network channels and they want the same thing

Also I have heard every excuse in the book as to why FTA is ligitiment, its almost as bad as the Canadians telling me that they would subscribe to US satellite if it was legal for them to do so in their country.

As far as the case with Pansat, look at what happened to Viewsat they ended up paying DISH Network $5 Million dollars to settle the lawsuit.

But it really does not matter anyways, they are going to Nagra3 in the next 30 days and as long as there is no hack available the whole FTA industry that has evolved over the past 4 years will end up going away. Get ready to see alot of cheap receivers available on ebay.

 

[gordonkearse]

This thread should be reproduced and sent to every state legislator in the US. We live in a land of so much greed. Poor people are denied information because a few others need more cash now.

Its not enough to make it big in America. A few must see how fast they can get rich!

Please tell others what fta really is. We are giving up so many of our own rights with no fight.::: Chomp, chomp, chomp.

 

[gordonkearse]

I forgot!!!

3 Fortec ultras, 2 Buzz 2010F's (no bootleg support available), 3 CW 600P's, 1 Viewsat lite, 1 10 foot Perfect 10 with BSC621, 5 primestar ovals, 1 superdish, and 1 18 inch dish

Go FTA!!!

 

[skewed]

Claude, I got into FTA because an old C-Bannder told me about the wild feeds and back hauls. If I had someone show me the channel line up for FTA at that time and said thats all they was to watch I would have never gotten into this. And I feel like you were right on with the new technology that has become available to us over the last few years. The more people that got into hacking drove a market and out spat better recivers. I feel like it is the same with True FTA. I feel like it is our duty to educate people about exactly "whats up there". If people only knew there were so much more available than what on the list we may even be able to resurect c-band again. But I understand of course, there will always be the doom and gloomers who who will be happy with there current recivers and content with the quality of the FTA programing and choose to keep everyt hig private. I myself would like ot see FTA progress to what it has become in europe. I still need someoen to explain to me what I should have to pay for a channel I dont watch, or pay for a channel whos programming has already been paid for by sponsors.

 

[melgarga]

You make some good points Claude. Interest in True FTA programming has been less than stellar, yet I place that indifference here in the western hemisphere on Echostar, Newscorp and our governments. The only full featured satellite 'free enterprize' choices here has been between the big corporation pizza delivery boys, and the only real competition they had for subbers until telco's were allowed to enter the market was cable.
European FTA and pay TV market are structured completely different. There is lots of relevant content for free, and value added is available from a variety of providers via a Conditional Access Module [card] for one's FTA DVB rx that can be used legally to get the premium service for a fee.
The LSD guys, in concert with govt 'sheephearding' have make great efforts to blind the unwashed masses and lead them to believe there are no other options for your tv viewing pleasure. They have essentially cornered the market and price fixed thier way to become the dominant forces eliminating any cheaper and more versatile options. It would be unfair to wholesale blame them for the comming demise of 4DTV, but they have had a hand in it. Unfortunately Motorola is doing a pretty fine job of it without any help.....lol
I too get asked about 'hacking' when newcommers look at my antenna farm. I suspect there are many of us that have to field similar questions in similar situations. I respond by saying no, these are for legal tv receiption and you can just see the awe in their eyes, like 'I had no idea such things were possible'. It is truely amazing to see how little the rank and file public know (or even care?) of available satellite tv programming. If pressed about any illegal activities, I simply tell them, I cant help them, try Google.
WE are a dwindling few of nitch hobbist and will eventually be overun by the LSD mentality monopolies and it's fellow conspiritors. They do not want us to have free access to quality programming or uncensored reports of world news events. The best and most effective way to control any population is to remove any hope or thought that there is anything better than what is already being offered. Dictators and oppresive govt's have used these tactics for millennia.

 

[magnigyro]

...

...but seriously what the hell is in the clear on any of the primary DISH Network satellites worth investing in a Dish, Switch and FTA receiver unless your planning on stealing signals...

Only the NASA channel on 119W (12368 V 20000) deserves a dish, circular lnb, cable and the best FTA equipment I can find... if you`re religious man ANGELTV could be appreciated for you.

With those DishNetwork FTA channels we admire the sky and no Hell..:up

 

[Smith P.]

Just check how Charlie start his business - selling BUDs and receivers for obtain HBO and other premium channels while they was unencrypted. He was fired for counting cards in casino, now he is gambling with Nagrastar and the waves of 'weak card-strong cards' to pull ppl from unknown status to addictive to sat programming, dangling free TV, then turn switch off and loop video at PirateTV channels. All this things is parts of big picture and FTA market is heating by reason: MONEY from all participants.