don't get caught moving

[Jimbo]

500 feet?!!!!!!!!!!!!Are you kidding about that or what?

No I am not kidding at all.

They go by zip codes appearanty, and D* did not realize that either because they could not understand why I was not getting it, seeing I DO get the FSN D SD feed.

I hope it's just a matter of waiting till next year and they will expand the areas.

I just sent an email to the Detroit Red Wings and FSN Detroit,noting to plaese pass it along to whoever handles these issues.

I don't know if I will hear anything, I would rather call and talk to them, but phone numbers are real hard to find.

You would think they would be in the Detroit Phone book (which I don't have) but I don't know.

Jimbo

 

[ScoBuck]

Don't matter to me if people feel the need to move - but when they get caught and then try to push the blame off - that's whats TRULY ABSURD.

People cheat the IRS, go over the speed limit, etc. all the time also - but when busted, its time to admit being 'wrong' and move on.

When 'breaking laws or rules you have to accept the result if caught and not WHINE about it.

 

[Jimbo]

Don't matter to me if people feel the need to move - but when they get caught and then try to push the blame off - that's whats TRULY ABSURD.

People cheat the IRS, go over the speed limit, etc. all the time also - but when busted, its time to admit being 'wrong' and move on.

When 'breaking laws or rules you have to accept the result if caught and not WHINE about it.

I am not trying to move, I would like to speak to the people that can make these desigins, I would like to hear from someone if this will be expanding next year, or am I just screwed till the end of time !

Jimbo

 

[cj9788]

Copyright law section 122:

(f) Violation of Territorial Restrictions on Statutory License for
Television Broadcast Stations.—
(1) Individual violations.—The willful or repeated secondary transmission
to the public by a satellite carrier of a primary transmission embodying
a performance or display of a work made by a television broadcast
station to a subscriber who does not reside in that station's local market, and
is not subject to statutory licensing under section 119 or a private licensing
agreement, is actionable as an act of infringement under section 501 and is
fully subject to the remedies provided by sections 502 through 506 and 509.....

As you have already been told this is the law concerning the carrier not the customer. You can try to make the leap that by moving you are committing fraud but that is a weak and lame argument. I know of no State or Federal fraud law that covers moving to receive television. I did a quick search of Florida statues at myflorida.com and all the fraud laws cover identity theft and fraud to steal money, no where could I find a fraud law as tower guy described in his second post.

So the challenge remains can ANYONE find a law that states the customer is committing a crime by moving. I can tell you know there is not a law on the books (yet) that criminalizes moving.

 

[charper1]

already pointed it out to you; falsification of info on documents/binding agreements constitutes FRAUD; if and when they have had enough, or it is to save their asses, they can and will move to turn in fraudulent users.

If a case can be brought and won holding a retailer liable for you spilling hot coffee in your own lap; you surely can be hung out to dry for FRAUD; its just if & when they decide to press that issue or when someone decides to press it for them.

There is no sense in arguing the point; you are quietly getting away with it so shhhhh and stop trying to justify it or claim it isn't a type of fraud, just sit back and use it.

 

[cj9788]

already pointed it out to you; falsification of info on documents/binding agreements constitutes FRAUD; if and when they have had enough, or it is to save their asses, they can and will move to turn in fraudulent users.

If a case can be brought and won holding a retailer liable for you spilling hot coffee in your own lap; you surely can be hung out to dry for FRAUD; its just if & when they decide to press that issue or when someone decides to press it for them.

There is no sense in arguing the point; you are quietly getting away with it so shhhhh and stop trying to justify it or claim it isn't a type of fraud, just sit back and use it.

It is not fraud because you say it is. The hot coffe case was a civil suit. Fraud in every sense is criminal it is only fraud if it breaks a State or Federal law. Currently there is is no fraud law concerning moving. Like I said find a law state or local that calls moving fraud and I will acknowledge it is fraud and say you are right. But untill you post proof you come off like an idiot. I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE AN IDIOT. But you keep trying to make a fraud connection and it is not there.

 

[cj9788]

Don't matter to me if people feel the need to move - but when they get caught and then try to push the blame off - that's what TRULY ABSURD is

People cheat the IRS, go over the speed limit, etc. all the time also - but when busted, its time to admit being 'wrong' and move on.

When 'breaking laws or rules you have to accept the result if caught and not WHINE about it.


No truer words were written. If you choose to break the rules then you have to accept the consequences.

If you have moved or are planning on it be sure you keep your stories straight. You are your own worst enemy. I know that the signal integrity unit at E* has bigger fish to fry than movers. Hell at least a mover is a paying customer. What the DBS Company does not know can not hurt them.

Moving is not what it used to be I "moved" to a true white area in my DMA to get DNS. I have (until E* shuts them off because of the injunction) NY/LA DNS and my lil pack. (Before SHEVRA went into effect you could have and keep DNS and LIL if you are in a true white area) It is great. Am making plans for the shut off and am thinking about moving to Tampa or Orlando. Those spots can reach North Florida. I am still trying to find out if the Miami spot reaches North Florida South GA. Why some are asking because the Jacksonville Locals SUCK THEY REALLY REALLY SUCK. The lower down on the DMA list the worse the end product is.

 

[charper1]

It is not fraud because you say it is. The hot coffe case was a civil suit. Fraud in every sense is criminal it is only fraud if it breaks a State or Federal law. Currently there is is no fraud law concerning moving. Like I said find a law state or local that calls moving fraud and I will acknowledge it is fraud and say you are right. But untill you post proof you come off like an idiot. I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE AN IDIOT. But you keep trying to make a fraud connection and it is not there.

FRAUD - Learn the meaning of the word. You are committing FRAUD regardless if there is any specific law on a book regarding "movers". You ARE perpetuating FRAUD by the purist definition if the word. Regardless of the fact that DirecTV finds no time to audit you yet, or catch you yet because of bigger priorities STILL does not mean your act itself is not a FRAUD. Knowingly lying about where your service is, is a FRAUD; however minor. Your justification is that until they catch you, or specifically spell out "movers" that there is no foul. We will agree to disagree.

Pronunciation: 'frod
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English fraude, from Anglo-French, from Latin fraud-, fraus
1 a : DECEIT, TRICKERY; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value; an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : TRICK 2 a : a person who is not what he or she pretends to be : IMPOSTOR; also : one who defrauds : CHEAT b : one that is not what it seems or is represented to be


I also notice in the DirecTV user agreement we all read and stated we understood that you agree to provide and maintain true, accurate, current and complete name, telephone, and address information and must notify them immediately of any changes. So that can easily be interpreted that not doing so or knowingly lying about this info would violate their license agreement. In fact they say: If you breach any term or condition of this license agreement, this license agreement will terminate immediately upon notice to you.

 

[Tower Guy]

but that is a weak and lame argument.

Yes, your honor, I did lie, but please don't find me guilty because I didn't know what fraud meant.

 

[dishcomm]

Okay. Let's take a small leap of faith here...

DirecTV is removing this guy's ability to have both a service and a billing address, because the remote was returned from his billing address. I don't think DirecTV wants separate addresses anymore because...

Dish Network just lost a lawsuit where they will have to cut-off 900K subscribers. What happens if many of them figure out how to move? Well...

The next list Dish Network provides to the "local" channels will increase. Quite a bit. Enough to note there is a pattern...

So, let's say that the "local" take on WNYW, the FOX affiliate in New York, goes up. FOX now has the list of people that were to be cut-off (from the original lawsuit), and can match up names to the new "local" lists. Find enough of them, and guess who will be sitting in front of a judge?

This is easy......Many retirees have two homes..If they wanted the locals of their primary residence, sa in NY at their home in say, FL. They could simply open an account in NY and install the EQ at their home in FL..
Here's an example of what I have done on DNS installs...The customer has a home in the Charlotte DMA.....They have lakefront weekend homes about 50 miles away and want to be able to receive sat programming while at the second home on weekends..The weekender is in another DMA but they want the Charlotte locals..They simply open their account at the primary residence and on weeeknds take the system with them..
I imagine dish would like them to open a second account at the lake house too...But anyone who does that is not very economically savvy...
Now to all of you law and order to a fault types, is this what you would consider fraud?

 

[charper1]

This is easy......Many retirees have two homes..If they wanted the locals of their primary residence, sa in NY at their home in say, FL. They could simply open an account in NY and install the EQ at their home in FL..
Here's an example of what I have done on DNS installs...The customer has a home in the Charlotte DMA.....They have lakefront weekend homes about 50 miles away and want to be able to receive sat programming while at the second home on weekends..The weekender is in another DMA but they want the Charlotte locals..They simply open their account at the primary residence and on weeeknds take the system with them..
I imagine dish would like them to open a second account at the lake house too...But anyone who does that is not very economically savvy...
Now to all of you law and order to a fault types, is this what you would consider fraud?

LOL. I like that: "economically savvy"- that reminds me of garbage men that prefer to be titled sanitation engineers; no matter what you call it, it still stinks!


Yes, because there is a easy remedy for vacationers; and maintaining two separate addresses with the same account is a EULA violation.

Just install a dish at both places and take your receiver(s) to the temporary 2nd location and back when you leave; if its just an extra receiver, just suspend it till you visit again. Too easy!

As far as the NYC - FL example, under normal circumstances the spot beaming will eliminate that being possible for the 99% of all the other DMAs. I assume the NYC and LA DMAs big 4 nets are still CONUS beams, but that would be all, so they would still not be getting all their locals.

 

[cj9788]

Ok because I have an openmind I will concede that moving is a form of fraud BUT and it is a big BUT a mover will never be hauled in front of a judge because moving is not criminal fraud for which a person can be prosecuted. A satellie company will not bring civil fraud charges against a user because once the satellite company finds out a sub has "moved" they terminate the locals ASAP before the DBS company is in violation of SHVA.

So there I can tottaly see your point. Are you open minded enough to see mine?

 

[dishcomm]

LOL. I like that: "economically savvy"- that reminds me of garbage men that prefer to be titled sanitation engineers; no matter what you call it, it still stinks!


Yes, because there is a easy remedy for vacationers; and maintaining two separate addresses with the same account is a EULA violation.

Just install a dish at both places and take your receiver(s) to the temporary 2nd location and back when you leave; if its just an extra receiver, just suspend it till you visit again. Too easy!

As far as the NYC - FL example, under normal circumstances the spot beaming will eliminate that being possible for the 99% of all the other DMAs. I assume the NYC and LA DMAs big 4 nets are still CONUS beams, but that would be all, so they would still not be getting all their locals.

Yep..The NYC DMA is still conus...Except for the must carry chs..There are several..But the core channels, 4 nets plus CW 9 and the the other one it's CH 11
are CONUS as well..

 

[joedekock]

It is really a shame so many people have forgotten how to use a TV antenna. I have only CBS and NBC affiliates in my DMA but by using a TV antenna I can add about another 20 digital channels that are clearer than my satellite delivered channels. I don't have to pay a monthly subscription fee for them either.

That is not always true. I live in a DMA that competes with Chicago's DMA. But because we are in a different state, if the two channels are on the same frequncy, there can be interference.

For Example, My DMA's CBS is Channel 3. Chicago has a Network using Channel 3 as well. Because of interference reasons with these two channels, the FCC sets a limit to how much wattage they can put out. So my local CBS on channel 3 only puts out 6,900 watts. An average wattage output for television stations would be 130,000.

I have a guy I work with that lives within 10 miles of the antenna putting out 6,900 watts, and he can not recieve any of its digital sub channels. It is simply too weak.

 

[fluffybear]

I didn't forget I moved I forgot I ordered the remote. I was making sure I wasn't adding to my already high $350 bill and wasn't paying attention when she asked me to confirm my address. It doesn't matter now as I may never go back to directv again. I may sell my directv equipment and go with dishnetwork or wait til i get my own house and then decide what to do since my dad hates that tin on the roof anyways.

I am totally confused by all of this, you are pissed at DirecTv because you lied to them and could not keep your story straight? It does not matter you forgot you ordered a remote, etc. just that you were caught in a lie and DirecTv terminated services you were not legally entitled to have.

What did DirecTv do wrong? Do you really fell like you entitled to have something which you are not. Go in to a bank and rob it and when you are caught, Ask them if they will forget about it and let you keep the money.

"If you can't do the time, Don't do the crime"

 

[Tower Guy]

That is not always true. I live in a DMA that competes with Chicago's DMA. But because we are in a different state, if the two channels are on the same frequncy, there can be interference.

For Example, My DMA's CBS is Channel 3. Chicago has a Network using Channel 3 as well. Because of interference reasons with these two channels, the FCC sets a limit to how much wattage they can put out. So my local CBS on channel 3 only puts out 6,900 watts. An average wattage output for television stations would be 130,000.

I have a guy I work with that lives within 10 miles of the antenna putting out 6,900 watts, and he can not recieve any of its digital sub channels. It is simply too weak.

6,900 watts on DTV channel 2 should get 10 miles just fine, especially with a rooftop antenna. If he can receive the main channel OK, the subchannel should be fine too. It sounds like there's something else wrong.

Channel 2 antennas do need to be higher than other channels because the antenna interacts with the ground. That interaction steers the main beam of the antenna up toward the sky, not toward the transmit antenna. Now if your co-worker just happens to live on the side of a hill that faces Chicago and WWMT is over the top of the hill, that would be the worst possible situation.

The FCC limit on power for low band DTV channels varies in different parts of the country. They vary from 10,000 to 40,000 watts. 130,000 watts is not the right number.

 

[REDANDBLACK]

If someone got caught "moving" wouldn't D* just cancel the DNS channels and maybe put a big red check mark on your account, so you couldn't move again.

Why would they cancel your account and charge you with a crime ? Why not just keep you as a paying customer ?

 

[cybrsurfer]

Ignorance is not an excuse to break the law...

Yes, your honor, I did lie, but please don't find me guilty because I didn't know what fraud meant.

The courts could not possibly let off every Tom, Dick & Harry that walks into a court room and claims "I didn't know". You will still be held accountable for fraud regardless if your simply stupid of the laws. Unless your feeble minded or mentally ill, you may get some leniancy, but it's no guarantee.

 

[cj9788]

The courts could not possibly let off every Tom, Dick & Harry that walks into a court room and claims "I didn't know". You will still be held accountable for fraud regardless if your simply stupid of the laws. Unless your feeble minded or mentally ill, you may get some leniancy, but it's no guarantee.

Because moving is not a crime there is no federal or state law that makes it a crime for the customer who moves. THEY CAN NOT BE CHRGED WITH FRAUD! The only person guilty of a crime is the dbs customer that allows a customer to keep locals dns or other wise based on a fradulant address after the dbs company catches said mover. Do nott say it is criminal fraud without posting an actual section of law that states the customer is guilty of fraud for providing a false address. It just is not true. I can not post a law that does not exist. SO THE CHALLENGE REMAINS> can anyone out there find a state or federal law that makes the mover guilty of a crime fraud or otherwise. YOU WONT FIND ONE

 

[cybrsurfer]

I didn't say legit movers committed fraud...

Because moving is not a crime there is no federal or state law that makes it a crime for the customer who moves. THEY CAN NOT BE CHRGED WITH FRAUD! The only person guilty of a crime is the dbs customer that allows a customer to keep locals dns or other wise based on a fradulant address after the dbs company catches said mover. Do nott say it is criminal fraud without posting an actual section of law that states the customer is guilty of fraud for providing a false address. It just is not true. I can not post a law that does not exist. SO THE CHALLENGE REMAINS> can anyone out there find a state or federal law that makes the mover guilty of a crime fraud or otherwise. YOU WONT FIND ONE

I am referring to dishonest customers who lie about where they really are. For instance you want NYC locals but really live in CT, but you use a family members address that your not physically at.