Dual axis navigator mount and actuators

[john_robot]

I have dual axis navigator mount for my Patriot Dish.
How can I automate it via a something like Gbox ? I know that if I use two Gbox's then I can manually do that. But I want to know how to automate it; like when I click on a channel everything getting in placed to receive the signals from that particular sat.

 

[crackt]

a picture woulda helped for those not familiar with your mount. if all you want to do is control 2 actuators it can be done. simply connect the 2 gboxes one after another (in series). so lnb input on the second is the reciever out of the first. using the remotes to position the dish. and save the same position to both controllers. (would be awkward with 2 similar controllers as both gboxes would respond, but a gbox and vbox2 use different remote codes). now when you change a channel the reciever calls for the position and both controllers will reciever the request and move accordingly. a little bit of work to setup but a lot less after it is running.

crackt out,.

 

[FaT Air]

Think you'd need a third something to mechanically adjust the skew. Don't think a servo feed (Chaparral) has enough probe "swing" to be used across the arc.

 

[greg47]

Your not going to find something reasonably priced, unless you find a old Chaparral analog reciever and even then it would not be automatic anymore. Most of the Patriot dishes like you have use a commerical $1500 to $2500 positioner. They are installed in most of the SNG trucks these days and I have seen a few sell on Ebay in the $600 to $900 range.

 

[Lone Cloud]

I have dual axis navigator mount for my Patriot Dish.
How can I automate it via a something like Gbox ? I know that if I use two Gbox's then I can manually do that. But I want to know how to automate it; like when I click on a channel everything getting in placed to receive the signals from that particular sat.

I have been considering this from time to time. I do not know whether a Gbox can control a Patriot set up. Let's assume it could theoretically move the dish, whether east to west or low to high elevation. Suppose two Gboxes using the same remote.

I have the Gbox. I program it with the last two digits of whatever longitude the satellite is at. Let's assume you had one Gbox for east and west and another for up and down. So after you peak the dish on both axes, you set the positions for that satellite. (03 for 103 west. for example)

You use the same remote. When you hit the power button on the remote, it turns one Gbox on and the other off. You set the satellite peak for whatever axis you are on. For east and west you set 03 then you hit the power. One turns off, the other on and then you hit 03 again.

I have not done this but I can't see why it wouldn't work

 

[FaT Air]

I actually can't see why you couldn't have both GBox's running at the same time. The power to run the actuator(s) comes from the power line, not the receiver. But a third will be needed to skew the feed.
Programming would be a b**ch, because you'd have to shut off all GBox's but the one you're adjusting. Personally, I think it's too complex, to just track the satellite arc. 3 times the probability of failure. 3 actuators to do what can be achieved with just one. on a polar mount. Now, once we establish communications with beings that are not in the clark belt, that's a different story.

 

[pendragon]

I went through a similar thought process last winter when I rescued a dual axis 1.8m Prodelin. The technical solutions were fairly straightforward. I would have used two GBOXes for the azimuth and elevation actuators, but would have run them via computer control and a DiSEqC switch. With regard to skew, I had no interest in polarotors because of their crippled performance. Instead I considered getting a single mode motorized feed for adjusting skew, but that is quite expensive. All-in-all it sounded like a lot of fun, but not worth the time and money to me.

I found a rusted, junker Ajax HH motor, refurbished it and converted the reflector mount into a polar mount. It wasn't hard at all and only cost about $60.

 

[Hermitman]

I'm using a Chaparral Monterey 140 on my dual actuator. It controls both actuators and polarizer setting. You just select the satellite you want and it moves there and adjusts polarity. I'm running it on a 10 foot Orbitron with a Corotor. The 140's are hard to find but worth it, in my opinion. Good luck.

 

[Likvid]

Can't do, you need a professional antenna controller used in commercial systems to control two motors these days, in the old days you could use the Monterey 140 for this, if you can get a cheap Mont140 that would be ideal.

Otherwise a antenna controller range in price between $2000-3000

 

[Smile]

There is an other option for controlling two 36V motors and a 5V skew motor. It can be done with a Fibo-Box V3. The Fibo-Box is controlled by pc. I myself build these boxes, but it is also possible to optain just the pcb and build it yourself.
http://www.fibo-box.comhttp://www.fibo-box.com

See also my dish controlled with a Fibo-Box on Youtube. YouTube - Fibo 120 with skew control mounted on a Jaeger SMR 1224-EL driven by a Fibo-Box V3

 

[Smile]

For anyone interested I have also a few professional antenna controllers that I don't use anymore. I have a few FSI Research RC2000 and a Seatel HDT91.

 

[merkin]

There is an other option for controlling two 36V motors and a 5V skew motor. It can be done with a Fibo-Box V3. The Fibo-Box is controlled by pc. I myself build these boxes, but it is also possible to optain just the pcb and build it yourself.
http://www.fibo-box.comhttp://www.fibo-box.com

See also my dish controlled with a Fibo-Box on Youtube. YouTube - Fibo 120 with skew control mounted on a Jaeger SMR 1224-EL driven by a Fibo-Box V3

This is a neat project. Very interested, but few questions
What if we can etch our own PCB's, could you provide gerbers?
What PIC is used?

Also do you have any signal comparisons with and without the gregorian feed. I wanted to try that on my 90" prime focus dish, but didnt want to waste my time if the extra db's werent there.

Thanks for sharing the project.

 

[Smile]

Thanks for the compliment. I can not give a PCB layout. The founder of this project, spend a lot of money in developing this positioner. Giving away the layout and schematics is therefore not an option. The copyright of this project and all of its components is with Ron Eberson (info@fibo-box.com). I only build these boxes for him. Also the program in the PIC is not public. The PIC used is PIC18F2455.

What an option is is that only the PCB without components and a programmed PIC can be obtained.

In the early 1980s a synthesis method for offset dual-reflector antennas was developed by Norwegian Telecom Research (NTR), and 3.3 m and 1.8 m antennas were produced by Raufoss. Although the main focus of Fibo-Støp was on the automotive industries it successfully produced and marketed from the late 1980s offset dual-reflector antennas of the same type for use of satellite TV reception.

The goal of the method was to obtain a prescribed aperture distribution, giving the wanted radiation pattern with high gain, low sidelobes, or a combination with rather high gain and quite low sidelobes. This goal was obtained by shaping the sub- and main-reflectors, and in this way let them have small deviations from the original confocal system (with parabolic and elliptical or hyperbolic surfaces of revolution). The method also gives a low cross polarisation. The synthesis was based upon Geometrical Optics (GO), and when using this method the diffraction effects were not included. The radiation pattern including these effects could be found by a Physical Optics (PO) analysis.

The first offset dual-reflector antenna was built in 1981, and a few years later production started at Raufoss. Their production technique was based on composite materials on an aluminium honeycomb structure. The technique fulfilled the requirements and Raufoss produced several 3.3 m and 1.8 m antennas up to 1987, but the production method was too expensive to produce antennas in large numbers. In 1988 the production was transferred to EB-NERA (later ABB-NERA). The reflectors were produced at Ticon in Drammen. They used polyester with glass fibre as material, and were able to produce the antennas cheaper. At that moment, they only produced 3.3 m antennas.

These antennas were intended for Ku-band (11/14 GHz), but with a modification of the feed horn they could be used at other frequency bands (12/18 GHz or 4/6 GHz). With a modified sub reflector, the 1.8 m antennas were also used at Ka-band (20/30 GHz). The large antennas (D > 1.5 m), were only produced in a limited number, but smaller antennas were mass-produced for the consumer and professional market at Fibo-Støp, Holmestrand.

The 55 cm and 90 cm antennas have been produced for some years and obtained a good reputation both in Norway and in other European countries. They were shaped for high gain, and their efficiencies are higher than 80%. The 55 cm antenna has also obtained a price for good design. In 1991 Fibo started also manufacturing the 120 cm version. The 120 cm antenna was intended for both the receive-only consumer market and for the business communication market in the 11/14 GHz band. It is shaped to have rather low sidelobes and still having high gain. Like the other antennas produced at Fibo-Støp. The 55 cm, 90 cm and 120 cm antennas were sold in large numbers as brand Fibo-Støp and other brands like Philips, Grundig, Delta Star, Kreiselmeyer, Master Focus, Nokia, Mediagate and some others.

more information about Fibo dishes at Fibo-Owners

 

[merkin]

Thanks you only mentioned selling the PCB above, so I figured you supplied us with firmware to burn to the PIC. Well than lay it on us. What is the cost of programmed PIC and PCB shipped to continental U.S.?
Also will you provide us with a complete bill of materials?

Wow I was just going to cut an 8" (inch) circumference out of the center of my dish and put it where my scalar ring is currently mounted. Then turn the lnb around like in your pictures hoping to get some extra gain. Wishful thinking on my part, eh?.....You actually manipulate the dishes and take them out of there true parabolic/eliptical form.

Has anyone else tried this gregorian (or similar) setup on their prime focus cband dish?

 

[Snuffer]

We can selling a set with programmed PIC, PCB and PC Software. only this in combination no PIC or PCB only's sorry.
And yes you get a list with materials.

Ron / Snuffer

Info for it by e-mail.

 

[Pixl]

I went through a similar thought process last winter when I rescued a dual axis 1.8m Prodelin. The technical solutions were fairly straightforward.
I found a rusted, junker Ajax HH motor, refurbished it and converted the reflector mount into a polar mount. It wasn't hard at all and only cost about $60.

Pendragon,

So when you say dual axis is that the same as elevation over azimuth, a standard fixed dish setup? And then you mounted this dish on a polar mount? Was it originally for C-band dish. And can you put up a few pictures? Sound like something I'd like to do with a Prodelin I'm working with.

Jim

 

[Smile]

The costs are 31$ for the PCB and the programmed PIC together. I also advice you to get the PCB of the optional optocoupler board (for 6$). This optocoupler board measures the voltage over the motor limit switches and then sends that info to the Fibo-Box PCB. One optocoupler board is good for two motors. Postage is 8$.

 

[pendragon]

So when you say dual axis is that the same as elevation over azimuth, a standard fixed dish setup? And then you mounted this dish on a polar mount? Was it originally for C-band dish. And can you put up a few pictures? Sound like something I'd like to do with a Prodelin I'm working with.

A dual axis mount is usually different than a basic AZ-EL mount. The latter usually has something like a threaded rod that is adjusted and locked for elevation, with azimuth set by rotating the mount's collar on a pole and locking it. A dual axis mount collar is typically locked onto the pole, but the mount is still free to rotate in azimuth and in elevation. Two actuators are employed to independently adjust each. Converting a AZ-EL mount to polar isn't impossible, but it likely would take more effort than a dual axis.

In my case the Ajak motor provided the means to clamp to the pole. I had to adapt the azimuth rotation part of the dual axis mount to the motor, and I changed the elevation part of the dual axis mount into a declination adjustment. When I get a chance, I can take some pictures, but my procrastination for such tasks is legendary.

 

[Snuffer]

Now i can tell you how nice and good this fibo-box system are, you can use it with H to H system that follow the clarkbeldt every motor works in a single system so when you use a clarck belt motor he turns only this if you will use the elevation you use the 2e motor.
All is posible to do and the software store the positions.
So a bisac system is posible and also a el-az system can be use.

 

[merkin]

OK that price is acceptable, but I got a few more questions.
Do I get a license for the windows executable and future updates with this kit purchase?
Where is the version 4 product documentation?
Dont really understand the octocoupler board either, could you explain a real world situation?
To confirm, v3 of fibobox can control two 36volt H-H/actuator motors and one 5volt servo motor at once?
Really would like to get the BOM so I can estimate the total costs. Cant imagine why it is not public. Componants are worthless without programmed pic, pcb, and windows executable anyway.

@pendragon
Let me know when you snap a few pics. I am using ajak180 HH also. Hooking an actuator to the pole and elevation bolt seems trivial at best.