Dual LNBF upgrade questions

[james55]

This is my first post. I could really use some 'forum' help.

One year ago, I traded my DirecTV satellite for a GEOSAT AMC-4 system from AdventistSat.com. Components: GEOSAT pro DVR1000ci receiver, 36-inch GEOSAT pro dish {with Azure Shine stamp} and one std FTA LNBF-mini.

I essentially get 3 channels: 3ABN, Hope and LLBN. 'Quality' on 3ABN is 98 {about 75 on LLBN}.

I discovered glorystar.tv when attempting to re-visit adventistsat.com. There I discovered 'a bunch more' free channels {aka: Galaxy 25}.

On Glorystar's website, I see two options:

Option # 1 - consists of an upgrade kit for $48.00. Glorystar appears reluctant to offer this option. They seem to be saying: "Good Luck Pilgrim - you'll need it to re-program your receiver. We do NOT provide ANY configuration information. You're one your own."

Option #2 - consists of the upgrade kit PLUS an already programmed receiver for $154.00. If I were to opt for this option, I would call glorystar and ask if they'd substitute a 'programmed' DVR1000ci receiver {another $124-150}.

My questions:

1) Is it easy/doable to use my existing DVR {with AdventistSat.com's AMC-4 programming} - and 'add' the Galaxy 25 channels myself? If so, what's the best way to do this? {another words: anybody got instructions?}.

2) Or, does 'conventional wisdom' suggest I purchase an already programmed unit as part of the upgrade? {which contains all the necessary instructions and information}.

3) I'm thinking: when I attempt to reach two satellites via one dish and two LNBFs, there will be some 'compromise' - and ALL 'Quality' levels will take a hit {especially LLBN on AMC-4}? But, if enough 'tweakin' is done, maybe they will all come in ok {enough}.

4) I downloaded the installation guide for the DVR. Page one contains a box with places for Dish Elevation, Compass Azimuth AND Skew Angle. I've no idea how to compute 'Skew Angle.'

5) I visited GeoSatFinder and came up with two sets of settings:

AMC-4 Compass: 136.6; Elevation: 45.6; LNBF Rotation: -24.4
Glorystar Compass: 133.7; Elevation: 44.7; LNBF Rotation: -26.7

No hint of Skew Angle. I'm currently set for AMC {above}. Either {logically}, one would seek to split the differences, OR: the 4 degree clamp compenates {??}. Do I start from the AMC setting? Or, do I begin with some initial aiming of the dish {before looking for a Quality signal on AMC?

My ZIP code is 93060 {Santa Paula, CA}. Based on the above information, how do I come up with some initial settings as defined in #4 above?

As you can see - I really do need help.

Thanks - James

 

[lumpkin666]

James, I suggest you spend a little time reading the FTA section of these forums. Although you can certainly buy all the equipment necessary to achieve your purpose through Glorystar, you have most of the components already. I am not familiar with your particular receiver, but I'm certain that you can add the channels to your receiver either by blindscanning, or a combination of scanning and manually entering any channels that do not show up after a scan.

Hardware-wise, you have many options. Probably the cheapest option for you would be to purchase a dual lnbf holder, a 2nd lnbf, and either a diseqc or 22k switch to add to your existing setup. After doing a bit of reading on the forums, I'm sure you'll find that setting up the 2nd lnbf and programming your receiver will not be that tough/expensive. However, there are plenty of options (ranging from easy/pretty tough&time consuming) that you can choose from. I wouldn't count out buying an entire new system from Glorystar though, as you may end up wanting 2 systems after you find all of the great stuff that is available

There is plenty of help available on the forums to aid you through all of the steps you need to to take, when you're ready to take them.

 

[bonscott87]

As for your current receiver, all you gotta do is add a new channel with the proper specs or scan each transponder/sat and add which channels you want.

 

[Mr Tony]

James
Since you already have the dish, I would recommend getting the "Upgrade" kit (option 1). this is the best way to get both satellite. The LNB's are small enough to obtain 4 degree separation with minimal degrading of signal. I use one and love it. See the review at the top of the section

1) Is it easy/doable to use my existing DVR {with AdventistSat.com's AMC-4 programming} - and 'add' the Galaxy 25 channels myself? If so, what's the best way to do this? {another words: anybody got instructions?}.

very easy to add. All you would do is remove the LNB holder that is on the existing setup and add the 4 degree bracket (this bracket hold both LNB's with no issues). You will probably have to redo the elevation on the dish but that is minimal. the 4 degree bracket actually looks at 99W...the 2 LNB's are off by 2 degrees from dead centre.

2) Or, does 'conventional wisdom' suggest I purchase an already programmed unit as part of the upgrade? {which contains all the necessary instructions and information}.

nah. Reprogramming your unit is not that difficult. If all you want is the Glorystar stuff, you need to program in like 4 transponders and it will scan for the new channels

3) I'm thinking: when I attempt to reach two satellites via one dish and two LNBFs, there will be some 'compromise' - and ALL 'Quality' levels will take a hit {especially LLBN on AMC-4}? But, if enough 'tweakin' is done, maybe they will all come in ok {enough}.

AMC4 is actually the stronger of the 2 satellites for channels. With the small LNB's and only being 2 degrees off dead centre, the "hit" is minimal

4) I downloaded the installation guide for the DVR. Page one contains a box with places for Dish Elevation, Compass Azimuth AND Skew Angle. I've no idea how to compute 'Skew Angle.'

5) I visited GeoSatFinder and came up with two sets of settings:

AMC-4 Compass: 136.6; Elevation: 45.6; LNBF Rotation: -24.4
Glorystar Compass: 133.7; Elevation: 44.7; LNBF Rotation: -26.7

No hint of Skew Angle. I'm currently set for AMC {above}. Either {logically}, one would seek to split the differences, OR: the 4 degree clamp compenates {??}. Do I start from the AMC setting? Or, do I begin with some initial aiming of the dish {before looking for a Quality signal on AMC?

skew is the same as LNB rotation. The top set of numbers is if you are doing JUST AMC4....the 2nd set is what you would use when you add the 2 LNB bracket

Here is my review (now take into consideration the setup I was using at the time was temporary...its more permanent now)

http://www.satelliteguys.us/glorystar-support-forum/93282-glorystar-dual-lnb-upgrade-kit.html

 

[james55]

Iceberg,

I appreciate your detailed reply. I think it's enough to point me in the right direction >{option #1 - $48.00 kit}

If I read your reply correctly, I'd 'begin' with my current compass/elevation settings {AMC} and adjust {if required} towards the Glorystar settings - with skew set to -26.7 - and wing it from there.

I do have one question - and it's really gonna show my lack of experience in this arena. Earlier today, while waiting for replies and having discovered I could add Gospel Music and Miracle TV {11860/28.138} - I 'accidentally' added'em. I don't know if I could go it the second time.

I've read and re-read the info in the User's Manual and Installation Guide. But, I still feel lacking in 'know-how.'

Could someone either direct me to some 'Adding Channels for Dummies' materials - or briefly explain the basics, so that once I add the dual set-up, I'll be able to add the Galaxy 25 channels.

Thanks - james

 

[Mr Tony]

If I read your reply correctly, I'd 'begin' with my current compass/elevation settings {AMC} and adjust {if required} towards the Glorystar settings - with skew set to -26.7 - and wing it from there.

the difference isnt much between the two
AMC-4 Compass: 136.6; Elevation: 45.6; LNBF Rotation: -24.4
Glorystar Compass: 133.7; Elevation: 44.7; LNBF Rotation: -26.7

so you would replace thre LNB holder with the new 2 LNB holder. The LNB holder does the skewing for you. Your azimuth is only 3 degrees off...that is like if you put a mark on the mast maybe 1/32" move...thats how fine it is. The elevation needs to go down a degree....again very minor moves. Since you already have the dish at AMC4 the moves are very minor versus someone starting from scratch

I do have one question - and it's really gonna show my lack of experience in this arena. Earlier today, while waiting for replies and having discovered I could add Gospel Music and Miracle TV {11860/28.138} - I 'accidentally' added'em. I don't know if I could go it the second time.

I've read and re-read the info in the User's Manual and Installation Guide. But, I still feel lacking in 'know-how.'

Could someone either direct me to some 'Adding Channels for Dummies' materials - or briefly explain the basics, so that once I add the dual set-up, I'll be able to add the Galaxy 25 channels.

Thanks - james

from reading the manual above from page 22 to log channels what it loks like you went into was
menu, installation, satellite scan and you must have scanned that transponder to get the extra channels.

I don't have that receiver so I really am just reading off the manual. Let me read a little more of it and see how that happened

 

[james55]

Thanks Iceberg,

I'll click on Glorystar's website and order the $48.00 kit.

THEN {when it arrives}, the fun will begin.

I'm sure - 'I'll be back' with "Now, what do I do? I'm stuck."

Thanks - james

p.s. I'm still welcoming any/all help on 'Making Adding New Channels Easy.'

 

[james55]

My Dual LNB Upgrade Kit should arrive tomorrow. I went to LNB Configuration and observed the following:

On AMC, DiSEqC is set to ---- {I guess that's blank}

On IA5, DiSEqC is set to #1.

What should they be?

I also noted the 'Position' on IA5 was set at 097.0W. I changed it to 099.0W. Did I do right?

james

 

[Mr Tony]

you dont need to touch the position as you will physically move the dish.

One LNB would be set up as diseqc 1 and one would be diseqc 2. When you hook up the switch make sure to turn off the receiver on the back with the switch. This prevents anything shorting out and frying the switch

page 16 and on from the guide will explain how to set it up
http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=15508&d=1175113301

 

[james55]

Iceberg, forgive my ignorance here {and I am ignorant in this arena}. If I understood your reply - the 'physical' settings on the dish are the ones that count - not the ones appearing on the screen under LNB Configuration?

The fact that I changed the setting from 97 on the screen to 99 - should I not have done that - or does it not matter, since I will be adjusting the physical setting at the dish?

The setup in the Guide shows LNBF #1 is for AMC and LNBF #2 is for IA5. Based upon this physical setup: should I change to settings on the LNB Configuration screen to math this ?

In other words, I should change the ---- on AMC to read #1 and change IA5 from #1 to #2? This will make my LNB config screen match the actual setup.

Have I got this right? - james

 

[Mr Tony]

sorry...was at work so I was limited at the time with what I could answer

Iceberg, forgive my ignorance here {and I am ignorant in this arena}. If I understood your reply - the 'physical' settings on the dish are the ones that count - not the ones appearing on the screen under LNB Configuration?

the only thing on the receiver you need to change is Diseqc...everything else is physical on the dish

The fact that I changed the setting from 97 on the screen to 99 - should I not have done that - or does it not matter, since I will be adjusting the physical setting at the dish?

I would set it back to 97. Changing that wont hurt anything unless there was a motor involved (which in this case there isn't)

The setup in the Guide shows LNBF #1 is for AMC and LNBF #2 is for IA5. Based upon this physical setup: should I change to settings on the LNB Configuration screen to math this ?

In other words, I should change the ---- on AMC to read #1 and change IA5 from #1 to #2? This will make my LNB config screen match the actual setup.

Have I got this right? - james

yes I would do that. Right now sicne there is no switch involved that is moot but once you get it setup then yes it is important. Basically it tells the reciever "hey when you go to a channel on IA5 that switch internally should be on side 2" (or something like that)

-Once you get the setup what I would do is set the 2 LNB holder to what the rotation says "-26.7" and attach it to the dish (remove the old bracket)
-power off the receiver with the switch on the back and hook up the cables to the LNB's and the switch. If you are standing in front of the dish facing it, AMC4 will be on the one to the RIGHT.
-POwer box back on and dial up AMC4 on the receiver per the instructions (page 22 on manual). You probably will not have any signal quality (and no picture). Loosen the bolts on the dish so you can move it east west and barely move it east. With the elevation only off by a degree the 3ABN channels should come in fine right now. 2 degrees is not much. Heck if you lean into the dish it might move that little bit

-Then make sure IA5 works. This may be where you will need to move the elevation every so slighly as AMC4 is much stronger than the IA5 satellite.
Make sure to set up Diseqc to port 2 for IA5. You may have to push the LNB in towards the dish for IA5 (I had to). This will optimize signal

(also the reason I keep referring to the manual is I have never seen that receiver so I am pretty much going off the manual)

 

[james55]

Iceberg, thanks for the comprehensive reply. The focus on my mental screen is beginning to clear up.

I will set skew to the IA5 setting of -26.7. I was thinking maybe I'd initially lower the elevation from AMCs 136.6 down to IA5s 133.7 - but again, if I read your reply correctly, I might begin with only the skew setting and see what {if anything} appears on AMC4. Then, expect to make adjustments {lower elevation} and east/west on azimuth.

Thanks - james

 

[Mr Tony]

correct...Skew the LNB holder per the instructions to -26.7 or so and install it on the dish.

elevation is the 44.7...this is the up and down. I wouldnt mess with that until the end to fine tune or if you do not have any signal. The azimuth is swinging the dish east west and right now is at 136 in the sky (on a compass) and needs to go to 133 which is minimal.

 

[james55]

Thanks Iceberg, I 'skewed' myself on my last reply. I meant to use the elevation numbers.

I fully comprehend your reply. I'm as ready as I'm ever gonna be. Now, FedEx, bring on the package - james

 

[Mr Tony]

it's just like x-mas waiting to come....hopefully you have some good weather when you work on it

 

[james55]

Well, Santa arrived shortly after my last post. Small package. It was good you suggested I may need to push the IA5 LNB in more. Turned out - I kinda had to. The Guide instructions showed positioning both LNBs at .750. I discovered that would have been nigh-on impossible. The dual clamp positions the LNB like two barrels of a dble-barrel shotgun - right close together.

The white LBN 'caps' have flared lips. I found if both LNBas were both .750 - the flared lips bumped into each other.

So, I pushed the IA5 inwards towards the dish {more}. It's nearly .900 - just enough to clear lip interference.

It's all hooked-up. Nothing on screen - except 'bad/no' signal. Course, my neighbor lady who assists me in the 'dialing-in' is out-and-about somewhere. So, I'll wait til she gets home.

With her not present to help, all I did the turn on the telly for a quick peak. I'll start tweaking when she's looking at the screen {we communicate via cell phone}. I guess I'll begin first with azimuth - then elevation {I think that was your last direction(s).

I did do a satellite scan. All it sacnned was AMC4. I'm wondering if I need to do anything special to let the receiver know that it needs to scan for IA5 channels??? - james

[Oh, I turned off power on rear of receiver - then even unplugged it before commencing hookup]

 

[james55]

I've got good news - and I've got no so good news.

The good news: I'm seeing 130 channels {total}. Most in a who knows what language. Some {many} have a '98' quality. I will need to filter out most. So, the system works.

The not so good news: I'm looking at what I'd call 'inconsistencies.' On AMC4: 3ABN is a 98; LLBN is a 71 {so far so good}. Hope Channel {11983} was over 90 - now it's the lowest AMC4, coming in at 33.

Two days ago, I added 11860/28.138 {Gospel Music and GNC} to AMC4. They came in good. Now, they've totally disappeared - can't find'em on either AMC4 or IA5. I located'em on a scan - and the quality was about 15. I guess that's why they disappeared off the screen.

On IA5: 12177 {TBN} is 98. 11966 {Miracle} is 67.

The 'dialing in process' wasn't linear and logical as it had been with DirecTV and AMC {only}. The process soon got frustrating.

I'm guessing I need to do more 'tweaking.' BUT, as per Installation Guide - using the strong and weaker channels for each satellite, the end result would warrant a 'pass.'

But, Hope Channel took a big hit on quality {picture looks ok}. The weird part is that LLBN scores a higher 'quality' than Hope Channel. That seems illogical.

Also, it seems I totally lost 11860/28.138 {the channels that recently moved from IA5 to AMC4.

Any suggestions? {for tomorrow?}

James

 

[Glorystar1]

The signal inconsistencies are due to the way that the LNBFs have been placed in the dual LNBF bracket. The face of both LNBFs need to be set at 3/4" forward of the dual LNBF mounting bracket towards the reflector. The signals from the two satellites will not converge at the proper position if the LNBFs are not set in this approximate position.

The two LNBFs will sit side by side very tightly. Do not try to set one LNBF in front of the other. Set the LNBFs exactly as the pictures show in the instructions.

Once you peak the signal qualities in this position using the lowest quality signals on each satellite, you can adjust the individual LNBFs skew and slide forward/aft to peak the signal quality for the weakest transponder on each satellite (AMC4, 11983 and Galaxy25/IA5, 11966).

LLBN has a much stronger signal than the Hope Channel. About a year ago they increased their link budget and the signal is much stronger throughout the main footprint. They are still quite difficult to receive on many receivers due to the signal being SCPC with a very low Symbol Rate.

 

[james55]

Thanks Glorystar. That's my tack for tomorrow - james

 

[james55]

Neophyte james55 checking in with results and final thoughts.

After the reply from Glorystar, I removed the business end and repositioned the LNBs to exactly .750. I readjusted skew as per instructions included in the kit {splitting the difference between AMC and IA5} -25.5.

The end result after adjusting dish: AMC4 improved - IA5 deteriorated.

So {not really knowing which way to turn}, I followed Iceberg's instructions of setting skew to -26.7 {Glorystar} and pushed IA5's LNB inward - maybe an additional .050 {offset}.

A very little azimuth tweaking brought a compromise, I can live with for now - maybe permanently. I can always try again. But, there is a time to say: "If it ain't broke - don't break it."

Hope {11,983}: 50; LLBN {12,020}: 79; 3ABN {11,822}: 98; TBN {12,177}: 98; Russia Today {11,966}: 66. [picture quality is quite OK on all I've selected as 'Favorites']

The above DOES represent a compromise. With only the singular AMC4 LNB, Hope Channel was a tad higher in quality.

What did I learn? {IMHO} 'Dialing-in' two satellites to one dish ISN'T easy! Too many 'variables.' And each variable effects the others.

Compared to my two previous experiences of dialing in DirecTV and AMC4 - this one was MUCH more difficult.

I still think it's got to be a compromise {quality wise}. I don't think it's possible for all the channels to be as high as if done separately.

I 'lost' 11,860/28.138 {GCN, Gospel Music}. Quality was 12-20 - no real picture. I can live without these. They did come in quite clear on AMC4 - just prior to my dual install.

Would I do it again? Yes. I was getting burned out with only three channels {3ABN, LLBN, Hope}. I would not pay for the full-package {install kit + programmed receiver}.

Hopefully, others will fare better. I'm am presently satisfied - it was worth the $48.00 for many added channels - some of which will make me appreciate LLBN, Hope and 3ABN {more}.

Thanks for all the help Iceberg et al.

James