Fine Tune 4DTV 920

[linuxman]

Ok Guys,

Help me out a little here.

I have replaced the 10 foot Winegard with a 7.5 foot Perfect 10 that I refurbished through the winter. Pictures will follow a little later.

I am attempting to tune the 4DTV 920 unit using only the 4DTV. I could take the Pansat up to the roof, hook it up, and fine tune it that way, but I'd rather do it this way.

I have setup a few satellites, and have a few numbers to put out here for comparison.

I started with G1/G15, and have random channels:
channel 160 55Q
channel 115 35Q
channel 165 80Q
channel 103 28Q saw the picture briefly ITC

C4 channel 120 76Q

X4 channel 159 90Q this is the first Ku channel
channel 603 85Q

GB channel 402 47Q
channel 410 71Q

AMC3 Doc Scott TP 20 S90 analog

AMC6 NASA Feed TP5 S90 analog

Haven't been able to hit the test card on AMC2 yet.

Haven't found anything live on SBS6 analog Ku to try it either.

Do these numbers look pretty good so far.

All I have done is put it on the mast, made sure the Elevation Axis angle, declination angle, F/D ratio was set correctly, the Feed-horn pointed smack on into the middle of the dish, and the Focal Distance was set correctly.

My building lies almost straight N/S, so it is pretty easy to sight down the wall of the building and put this dish on 91W. But it may need to be fine tuned a little.

Not getting anything in the way of Ku on the East side kind of worries me a little. I have always gotten the test card on AMC2, but have read the thread where it sometimes is down.

If you have something Ku that I can try East of B6, help me out a little please?

Also, if you can compare the numbers I have and post them, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Here is the first picture of the refurbed Perfect 10 7.5 foot mesh pointed at G1/G15.

It got cloudy and dark out, so this picture didn't turn out very well. It is a little dark. I'll take better pictures tomorrow.

 

[Lynskyn]

There's a wild feed right now on AMC6 KU (K6) channel 9. That's 2 degrees east of SBS6

 

[Lynskyn]

SBS6 has a feed on channel 12 right now also

 

[Lynskyn]

They just now cut the K6-9 feed. SBS6-12 just dropped too. Bummer

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Lynskyn,

Didn't pull in either one.

I know I am on AMC6 - K6 because of the NASA feed on the right channel, so that tells me what I need to know.

I need to turn the assembly on the mast a little one way or the other.

That will probably increase the signal on the West side too.

Thanks for your quick response.

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Finally got a Ku signal I can work with on the East side. More at the top than East, but it is 4 degrees East of my TS satellite.

K3 640 with a 40 Q.

When I go up tomorrow, I'll change to that channel, and push up or down on the dish. That should tell me which way to turn it.

Can't go right now. Storms all around.

Thanks again Lynskyn for helping me out.

Fred

 

[gabshere]

fine tuning
now when your making adjustments are you using the bolts or are you still adjusting the dish left & right ? is this part of your tuning to fine tune to the TS & the east & west sats to gain a common SQ for the 3 ??


my problem and i didn't realize it will be this my dish is tuned to g10 and receives most all the sats in the arc (this was before changing the feedhorn out) now and i haven't checked other sats yet. but how do i know if i got the new feedhorn back to its correct position every little twist changes the direction . is there a tool or something that gives you the feedhorns correct angle ? thanks bunch more reading for me .

 

[linuxman]

Hey George,

I am not adjusting the elevation and declination at this point.

This will be loosening the bolts on the cap and twisting the whole assembly towards the West or East depending on what pushing up or down on the dish tells me.

I suspect that I need to turn the whole assembly to the West just a smidge!

I say that from looking down the side of the building.

It doesn't look to my eye like the N/S axis of the dish is far enough West. I'll know tomorrow.

Fred

 

[truckracer]

quality on G-1 seems a little low on the HBO/Max stuff

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Truckracer!

That would also indicate that the dish is not quite tracking the arc correctly.

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Had a little set back today.

Really the setback was yesterday, just didn't reveal itself until today. As I got on the roof and started pulling up and down on the dish, I tried pulling sideways, and thought, Oops. I don't remember that dish having any slop in it on the original actuator.

What happened was yesterday, I took the actuator off the old Winegard, and was going to use it on this dish. Unknown to me was that the original owner had set the limit switch on the actuator for use with the Winegard. It was only coming out of the tube about 14". I didn't know any better, because the Winegard pulled in from 55.5W to 135W with it like that.

The difference is in the pivot length and the ring size. He had it set that way to insure there was enough strength in the arm to hold a 10 foot dish when extended all the way.

I had put a second 24" actuator that I got off a junk dish, and had cleaned, and lubed. So I took that one back off, and had to have a learning session in my shop on how the limit switch works.

I reset the limit switch so that the arm actually comes out a decent distance now and have the original 24" on the Perfect 10 dish. It is a much newer arm, and well taken care of. It has 600 more counts than the other one travelling the same distance, so it is a little more accurate.

Got things set back up, and pushed down on the dish on K3 (AMC3 Ku). The signal almost doubled, so I turned the whole assembly towards the West like I had thought, about 1/16", and ended up doing that twice, so about 1/8" total.

Finally got a feed on SBS6, but never have gotten the test card on AMC2.

BTW, the 920 doesn't actually have a satellite to program in for AMC2. The chart I have shows a W2 for AMC2 C-Band, and K2 for AMC Ku-band. I have been substituting K9 as the one to program in for K2. That may be the problem. Just don't know. If someone can clear that up for me, that would be helpful.

So I am tracking the arc better, but the West side, actually lost a little signal especially on G1/G15. The HBO/Max stuff is now down to 35, and the stuff I was getting 80 on yesterday, is now down to 70. X4 stayed about the same. Lost a little on T5. Like I said, I gained on B6 (G11), and on K3 (AMC3).

So I am thinking tomorrow, I need to play with the elevation/declination settings a little. I have never put one up yet that I didn't have to redo someone else's setup to get the best signal.

Took a couple of more pics today. They are better than the one yesterday. You can actually tell I repainted the dish.





Hopefully, I can get it done tomorrow. My wife sat down last night as I was programming in a few birds, and I showed her the Program Guide, and the favorites list I was building. Now she is getting impatient for me to finish her BUD, and get the 4DTV wired so she can watch it from the living room too.

Sometimes you just can't win. For months, there was no interest at all, now I can't get it done fast enough.

 

[voomvoom]

Hi Fred, let's see if I can help a little?

BTW, the 920 doesn't actually have a satellite to program in for AMC2. The chart I have shows a W2 for AMC2 C-Band, and K2 for AMC Ku-band. I have been substituting K9 as the one to program in for K2. That may be the problem. Just don't know. If someone can clear that up for me, that would be helpful.

On my 920, I use W9 and K9 for AMC2, which is W2 and K2. Actually W9/AMC9 used to be where AMC2 is now, but it's the one I use, when I go there.

Like I said, I gained on B6 (G11), and on K3 (AMC3).

I'm not sure if I understand this? On mine B6 is SBS6 and G11 is GB (C-band) while the ku side is XB. Hope this will help and not confuse?

Al

 

[voomvoom]

And Oh Yeah! Great pics!

Al

 

[linuxman]

Hey Al,

I'm not sure if I understand this? On mine B6 is SBS6 and G11 is GB (C-band) while the ku side is XB. Hope this will help and not confuse?

You are right of course. I mis-wrote. It is GB that I had the gain on.

On my 920, I use W9 and K9 for AMC2, which is W2 and K2. Actually W9/AMC9 used to be where AMC2 is now, but it's the one I use, when I go there.

Cool!! So I am using the correct one for AMC2 Ku. I think I have it in the right position, and get a signal of about 82, but not picture yet.

I will do a little adjusting today. I am going to look at the elevation/declination and see if I can fine tune it a little before the storms start this afternoon.

Thanks,

Fred

 

[linuxman]

I lowered the elevation to 39.5 degrees, by the book and with the protractor. Checked the declination (supposed to be 5.5 degrees) and it seemed to be correct with a total elevation of 45 degrees.

After doing that, the signal changed on all the sats, so I moved the whole assembly back East to halfway back to the original position. About 1/16" from the start point. That helped, so I moved it back to the start point, but that didn't seem to help a lot either.

Here is What I have so far from East to West

K6 (AMC6) a feed with 88 S
B6 (SBS6) a feed with 78 S, another with 76 S, and another with 88 S
K5 (AMC5) a feed with 84 S
K3 (AMC3) 640 with 60 Q
GB (G11) 402 with 63 Q
T5 (G25) 600 with 30 Q
X4 (G16) 603 with 99 Q
G5 (G14) 100 with 99 Q
G1 (G15) 100 with 37 Q
115 with 37 Q
165 with 68 Q
C4 (AMC10) 120 with 73 Q

Before anyone gets excited, I didn't necessarily see picture on all these channels, but you can still measure quality readings.

Still haven't been able to find/pull in the elusive test card on K9 (AMC2). It is always fuzzy anyway even with a 10 foot dish.

The only thing I haven't done is try moving the Co-Rotor in and out at the mouth of the Feed-Horn. Might try that next.

I will probably move the whole assembly back to the middle point, but not today. It has started raining, and is supposed to rain and storm the next couple of days.

I don't know whether I can squeeze much more out of the 7.5 foot dish. If I already hadn't gotten it last fall, and put so much work in it over the winter, I would find another replacement, and may do that by Fall. I'd like a nice 8.5 footer for that spot.

Failing that, I will put the 10 Foot SAMI dish there. I haven't ruled out putting the 7.5 foot solid that I still haven't gone to pick up, but am now wary of that one for being undersized. It might have a better parabolic shape than the Perfect 10.

The programming from the guide would indicate that the satellite T7 in the setup menu should be in the position of G13/H1 more so than the real G27 (IA7).

If that is the case, what satellite do you program to put in the position for G27/IA7?

I know there are some feeds that show up there occasionally.

Thanks for everyone's help,

Fred

 

[linuxman]

I will probably move the whole assembly back to the middle point, but not today. It has started raining, and is supposed to rain and storm the next couple of days.

It quit raining about 15 minutes after I posted that, the sun came back out, and heated everything up, but also dried off the roof.

Went back up and moved the whole assembly back to the half way point, so I am about 1/16" from where I started.

Tried moving the Feed-horn in about 1/8", then out about 1/8", it seems I am getting the best signal I can by that experiment.

Not much else to do to get anything more. Just program all the sats in and see how it goes.

Unless one of you can come up with a better suggestion, I am going to call it quits on this one.

Fred

 

[voomvoom]

The programming from the guide would indicate that the satellite T7 in the setup menu should be in the position of G13/H1 more so than the real G27 (IA7).

If that is the case, what satellite do you program to put in the position for G27/IA7?

I know there are some feeds that show up there occasionally.

Thanks for everyone's help,

Fred

Hi Fred, the reason for this being like this is, T7 C-band failed a few years back and everything was emergency switched to IA13/G23 @ 121.0w and the Motorola people re-named it T7 in the 4dtv. So 4dtv'ers only had to re-program the sat position for T7. G13 @ 127.0w used to be G9 and is listed as such on the 4dtv. The real T7/IA7/G27 is @ 129.0w and I use X9 as a locater position and scan with a DVB receiver slaved (actually split) from the 4dtv. I never look for analog on that sat.

Al

 

[voomvoom]

And for the 4dtv, on T7 @ 121.0w, you will find some Digicipher II channels. The main one being B-Mania (800), which I think is called M-2 now. It's a B-movie channel and I think it's ITC in Fixed Key Mode for a 4dtv with previous subscriptions.

Al

 

[linuxman]

Hey Al,

Thanks a million for the explanation.

I read your post, and already got it done.

I'll have to figure out a different Satellite to program into the 129W location for analog. Last summer, I saw some Cardinal feeds in that position when I first started out and the old Drake was the only thing I had to play with.

As to my signal strength being what it is. I may be a little too hard on this dish. It receives everything I want to watch. I more than likely won't ever subscribe to HBO/Cinemax. I think I am just an over-achiever, and want all signal I can get whether I watch it or not.

Thanks for the help Al,

Fred