First Look: Dish Network's DTVPal Digital Converter
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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Smith, P. is the electronics expert - NOT me!
All I did was post a picture on AVS of the screen that Smith, P. accessed by inserting jumper J9. There was too much "no way this thing will update OTA" talk going on, and I went for shock value. Unfortunately, I didn't credit Smith, P. either - just put the picture link up - so I fixed that screw-up!
BTW, I think that chip is to decode the software updates. Would think it would have a SmartCard slot for pay TV. Don't you think that Dish values their fine programming
too much to just send it out without encryption?
All I did was post a picture on AVS of the screen that Smith, P. accessed by inserting jumper J9. There was too much "no way this thing will update OTA" talk going on, and I went for shock value. Unfortunately, I didn't credit Smith, P. either - just put the picture link up - so I fixed that screw-up!
BTW, I think that chip is to decode the software updates. Would think it would have a SmartCard slot for pay TV. Don't you think that Dish values their fine programming
too much to just send it out without encryption?
Last edited:
Nope, all FW spooling without encryption,
anyway who need it protected if it process just FTA OTA signals ?
It's Trojan Horse of Dish for OTA users. I mean the smart card chip.
anyway who need it protected if it process just FTA OTA signals ?
It's Trojan Horse of Dish for OTA users. I mean the smart card chip.
Pardon my asking, but how do you know that for a fact?
Aren't many of these boxes using the same components? Don't you think someone could use their software (and hopefully improve it) somewhere else? Isn't Dish's guide far and away better than the competitions'?
Just for close our speculation before TR40 cames up - now, after getting it in our hands, it's the SAME device as DTVPal ( not counting latest FW F1.03 ).
Found in Internet some info about the embedded smart card [U602]:
- S20 xxxx xxxx-xx
- DNASP 243
- Rev DshH80
So, guys - that's real Dish smart card !
Perhaps G3 type.
- S20 xxxx xxxx-xx
- DNASP 243
- Rev DshH80
So, guys - that's real Dish smart card !
Perhaps G3 type.
Sounds like PPV on sub-channels (think wrestling) is coming. Some independent stations could go to a pay model as well.
After the final nail in my uncertainly, I'm scratching my head - how the Company, always milking from our packets nickel and dime for a fee and that fee and more additional fee, selling to us replacement card for $50 in case of damaging,
giving for FREE same newest card ( doesn't matter if it embedded ) with OTA ATSC receiver ?
Trojan horse ?
Or those smart card had practical value a penny and Dish as usual bulling us with that PR about high cost of it ?
giving for FREE same newest card ( doesn't matter if it embedded ) with OTA ATSC receiver ?
Trojan horse ?
Or those smart card had practical value a penny and Dish as usual bulling us with that PR about high cost of it ?
maybe the embedded card represents the whole cost of the Pal? I know doesn't make sense but nothing else seems to either. More then likely what they are thinking is that at some point, down the road, most people will have HDTVs and the Pal could then be used for some other purpose. They are losing money like crazy, today, in hopes of making a profit later...
sounds too long term to be true.
sounds too long term to be true.
Cards cost very little to produce; more of their initial cost would have been in research & development. Even so, I doubt they're really all that much of the value of the unit, or even of what they'd charge for a replacement. The reason they charge what they do is because people will pay it. And as we all know, generally speaking, new technology always runs higher, then costs drop as an item becomes more common. Please note that I said, 'generally speaking.' We don't know how long DTV converter boxes will be out on the market, and that makes some difference. Depends on how long the manufacturers are willing to make them, which may partly depend on how long our analog tvs last. Personally I only have one tv, but got both my coupons & used them both, so if my tv outlasts my first box I'll have a backup.
Another technical tidbit of the TR-40 ( I'd like the original name):
- all your settings and channels info storing in a same chip where FW resides - in a flash memory;
while other manufacturers using separate (cheap) serial EEPROM chip.
Kind of scary - if something will go wrong, FW code section(s) could be corrupted beyond of repair.
- all your settings and channels info storing in a same chip where FW resides - in a flash memory;
while other manufacturers using separate (cheap) serial EEPROM chip.
Kind of scary - if something will go wrong, FW code section(s) could be corrupted beyond of repair.
DTVpal Plus
There's now another new version of the DTVPal, for $10 more than the standard one. They're calling it the DTVPal Plus, and calling it the second generation of DTVPal. According to the web site it just has a better tuner. No mention of the flawed timer problem. Their web site says: "DTVPal Plus has the same features and functionality of the DTVPal but includes an enhanced digital tuner. This tuner enables consumers to get even better reception in weak signal conditions such as with indoor antennas or for distant TV signal transmitters."
There's now another new version of the DTVPal, for $10 more than the standard one. They're calling it the DTVPal Plus, and calling it the second generation of DTVPal. According to the web site it just has a better tuner. No mention of the flawed timer problem. Their web site says: "DTVPal Plus has the same features and functionality of the DTVPal but includes an enhanced digital tuner. This tuner enables consumers to get even better reception in weak signal conditions such as with indoor antennas or for distant TV signal transmitters."
My 2nd coupon was expired on 10/2, so I had to call Dish to order a TR-40 (website wouldn't let me order as a Dish Network customer) which arrived yesterday. Set up was as easy as you could expect. Here are some observations:
1) Picture Quality: The picture through the composite video connection is softer than my Zenith DTT901. It also seems to shift when video overlays appear and disappear.
2) EPG: My DMA (South Bend, IN) does not appear to have TV Guide, or if it does, my Low Power digital stations do not appear to be contributing EPG data at this time. I think the TR-40 is picking up the PSIP data, though, as my Toshiba HDTV is missing the same program Information.
3) Power: Every time I turn the TR-40 on after it's been off for a while, it downloads the EPG. Fortunately, this does not take more than ten seconds or so, but it seems silly given that the manuals states that one of the reasons to turn off your TR-40 is to allow it to download program information.
4) Tuner: Since I'm under 5 miles away from our TV transmitters, I don't expect any problems pulling in stations. Comparing the TR-40 to the Zenith, they seem roughly the same. YMMV. Speed-wise, it tunes in the channels very quickly.
5) Packaging: Small, compact, and lightweight. It's nice that when you shut it off, it goes dark. The Zenith has a red LED that indicates it's off, blue when it's on, which seems silly. You could tuck it away in almost any location. The case gets mildly warm, but nothing I'd worry about.
6) Price: Dish was going to charge me $5 extra, but they waved it when I said that the website would not let me order it that way. The shipping, handling, and tax (7%) amounted to $13 after subtracting the DTV converter box coupon.
7) Remote: I like the TR-40 remote with some reservations. It feels familiar to my hand (as well it should; it is a Dish remote, after all). It does not control my ViP 211, but my ViP remote works with the TR-40. I'm not sure how that works. But, you tune the TR-40 like a Dish ATSC receiver, so 22-1 is tuned by typing a leading zero, or "0221". Dish should have taken the "*" or "#" key and made it the "-" instead. Also, it can not control a TV, so unless your TV remote can control a Dish receiver (not likely for most NTSC-only TVs), you're dealing with two (or more) remotes. The Zenith DTT-901's remote will control a TV's power, but that's it.
Final resting place? Probably on the Sony 27" set in the guest room. However, I wish the DTT901 or the TR-40 had S-Video out to eliminate chroma crawl on the Sony.
1) Picture Quality: The picture through the composite video connection is softer than my Zenith DTT901. It also seems to shift when video overlays appear and disappear.
2) EPG: My DMA (South Bend, IN) does not appear to have TV Guide, or if it does, my Low Power digital stations do not appear to be contributing EPG data at this time. I think the TR-40 is picking up the PSIP data, though, as my Toshiba HDTV is missing the same program Information.
3) Power: Every time I turn the TR-40 on after it's been off for a while, it downloads the EPG. Fortunately, this does not take more than ten seconds or so, but it seems silly given that the manuals states that one of the reasons to turn off your TR-40 is to allow it to download program information.
4) Tuner: Since I'm under 5 miles away from our TV transmitters, I don't expect any problems pulling in stations. Comparing the TR-40 to the Zenith, they seem roughly the same. YMMV. Speed-wise, it tunes in the channels very quickly.
5) Packaging: Small, compact, and lightweight. It's nice that when you shut it off, it goes dark. The Zenith has a red LED that indicates it's off, blue when it's on, which seems silly. You could tuck it away in almost any location. The case gets mildly warm, but nothing I'd worry about.
6) Price: Dish was going to charge me $5 extra, but they waved it when I said that the website would not let me order it that way. The shipping, handling, and tax (7%) amounted to $13 after subtracting the DTV converter box coupon.
7) Remote: I like the TR-40 remote with some reservations. It feels familiar to my hand (as well it should; it is a Dish remote, after all). It does not control my ViP 211, but my ViP remote works with the TR-40. I'm not sure how that works. But, you tune the TR-40 like a Dish ATSC receiver, so 22-1 is tuned by typing a leading zero, or "0221". Dish should have taken the "*" or "#" key and made it the "-" instead. Also, it can not control a TV, so unless your TV remote can control a Dish receiver (not likely for most NTSC-only TVs), you're dealing with two (or more) remotes. The Zenith DTT-901's remote will control a TV's power, but that's it.
Final resting place? Probably on the Sony 27" set in the guest room. However, I wish the DTT901 or the TR-40 had S-Video out to eliminate chroma crawl on the Sony.
I am planning on purchasing a TR-40 when my coupons arrive. I have a question about the timer feature. Will the timer turn on the TR-40 at the set time or does the unit have to be left on and it will only change channels if you are watching another program. I was looking at the manual online and it made it sound like it only channels when it is on. Not very helpful for unattended recording.
Thanks
Thanks
OK, there is simple mod by your wish: desolder old proprietary connector and install regular one after triming a window for it on back side.
Attachments
or buy a couple of male female plugs and attach inline. then all you have to do is unplug the ac adapter and plug in the car one. if you're interested i can try to post a drawing
