FM over HD Antenna and indoor vs outdoor

[jlabsher]

Can I use a UHF HD antenna to pickup FM stations too? I seem to remember something from my distant past about an FM antenna being more like a VHF antenna than a UHF one.

Also I checked TVFool and the FCC site and I'm at the edge of the limits for a lot of channels (Zip 20653), but really want the antenna in the attic of my two story house. If I spring for the strongest amplified antenna and, assuming my attic is 40' aboveground is it doable? Or should I hire some crazy guy to climb up on my roof?

 

[boba]

FM radio is broadcast between CH6 & 7 VHF so a UHF antenna could work in a strong signal area.

Best antenna reception is always going to be outside the roof but real life usage has to be tried. Set it up in the attic and see how your reception is. If it isn't good enough for your needs move it outside and try again.

 

[bnaivar]

The rule of thumb on attic antennas is that placing an antenna in your attic will cut the reception distance in half. If you can live with that, fine.

 

[CowboyDren]

At your range, trying to use an in-attic antenna is a waste of time. Your noise figures are good, but your distances are too great. What you really need is to pick a market (DC, Baltimore, PA, whatever), and then pick your antenna and mounting system based on that.

 

[Houston]

Fellas, let's talk about this a minute....

boba,
I'm not all that sure that a UHF is going to pull in FM for jlabsher.
That's asking a lot of an Antenna which only gets down to Ch 14, to reach farther down and pick up a Freq between Ch 6 & 7.

Now, if he would get a Modified VHFhi/UHF Antenna (Ch 7-69) that might work depending on the Antenna, and, if he were to select a Full Range Ch 2-69, just about all of them pull in FM very well.
But, you could be right, there may be a UHF somewhere, that will work.

jlabsher,
Just took a look at Your Chart.
And to tell you the truth, I've seen better !

I think you putting an antenna in your Attic, would be a waste of time !
In fact, you're going to need a BIG antenna to reach out, plus a hefty Amp on it, to even get those first three stations.

Now, if you want to spend some money, biggest Antenna, HD Pre-Amp and a Rotator, you might get 1 one more channel. That'd make 4 you could receive !

My choice for you would be a...
AntennaCraft HD1850 Heavy Duty VHF UHF FM HD Antenna
with an Amp like the...
Antenna Craft 10G212
Now, mount that monster Antenna and Amp on a good HD Tripod like the...
Channel Master CM-9003
That'll hold up a good Rotator to, like the...
Channel Master CM-9521
If you want to spend that kind of money, for the additional channel.

Of course there's some additional parts, Mast, Wire, hardware, that kind of stuff in addition to the major equipment.
So, run some numbers up on the cost of this, and decide what you'd like to do.

Have a good day !
S.W.

 

[CowboyDren]

That's waaaay too much work. A UHF-only antenna will outperform that monster FM-VHF-UHF combo at an eighth the size and a quarter the cost (Antennacraft U4000). You wouldn't have the VHF source for WJLA ABC7 (Baltimore) or WBAL NBC11 (DC), but you may get lucky and have SD versions of those channels on a UHF sub-channel.

Take an Antennacraft U4000 and an FMSS FM antenna, with a good UHF preamp (like a Channel Master 7777), and use a pair of UVSJs to combine and then split the FM signals. (Side note, I wouldn't use that $25 Antennacraft amplifier if they paid me; stick with Channel Master for that item.) You'd still want this rig to be as high in the air as you can get it, but a dedicated UHF + dedicated FM antenna will give your homeowners' insurance agent a LOT less of a heart attack when he sees it. All of the other masts, wiring, and connectors can be purchased at Radio Shack or Lowe's.

If you choose to use a rotator, the omnidirectional nature of the FMSS antenna means that it won't matter where the TV antenna is pointing; you'll get excellent FM reception and good FM-HD reception.

 

[Splicer]

15 foot length by over 9 feet wide by over 3 feet tall, that is a serious monster antenna! Personally, I wouldn't consider putting that thing on the roof of a 2 story building when you are wanting it to top out at 40 feet. Nothing less than a tower will be required. And that would also be the only likely method that will pull in more channels, IF the height is increased.

According to the tvfool plot, you would seriously benefit from satellite or cable, if cable is even available in your area. Your location for OTA is just not very ideal. An attic antenna might be good for FM reception, but not for video, so if you want more than FM, buy and erect a tower. Even with that I think you're really playing Russian roulette. I mean, I'm an adventurous kind of guy, but I don't think I would even attempt OTA at your location. The equipment Houston suggested is just the beginning. You could have satellite for a long time for all the money that would be required for everything.

Finally, I see you are using the term 'HD Antenna' in your title. I like to correct people that use this terminology as soon as possible before they become accustomed to saying/thinking that it is correct. The correct term is just 'Antenna'. No designation of 'HD' is necessary since any antenna, from one made 50 years ago, to 50 minutes ago, will be capable of reception of DTV signals. The only reason you see/read about 'HD' antennas so much today is not because todays antennas are any more special than they have ever been, but because the marketers (advertisers) realized that adding those two letters (HD) sells a product better. Put the 'HD' in front of almost any product if you want guaranteed sales.

Merry Christmas and if you need to ask about anything else, don't hesitate. Great group of folks here glad to help if they can.

 

[No Static At All]

jlabsher,

Unless you are just interested in the Salisbury, MD stations, you will likely need a state of the art antenna system for "reliable" reception. (The attic is pretty much out of the question)

Salisbury offers most of the networks with a few exceptions. No NBC or UPN, & the FOX affiliate is only offered as an SD subchannel. I recommend the Winegard HD8800 or 91-XG for Salisbury. Adding a rotator should bring in one or maybe both of the FOX & UPN HD affiliates from DC or Baltimore.

NBC Baltimore will only be possible with a larger antenna such as a Winegard YA-1713, but can be mounted beneath the rotor since it won't require turning. (You may get NBC from DC with one of the smaller UHF antennas, but it would be a stretch)

Not sure how many TV's you will be running, but a pre-amp will most likely be of great benefit regardless. I recommend the Channel Master 7777 .

As far as FM goes, the UHF antenna will not do any better on FM than the dipole antenna supplied with the radio. Which stations are you trying to recieve/improve?

 

[jlabsher]

Well thanks for all the input, the main reason I was looking into an antenna was for daughter who claims that none of the locals play "good music". Since I was going to get an antenna I figured I'd swing for one to pick up HDTV on PBS. I've got Dish which doesn't have PBS on HDTV.

I'll probably just get a cheap VHF in the attic to pull in some FM choices for her rather than go the whole route of roof mount/pre-amp, etc.

I remember growing up about the same distance from STL as I am from DC now and we had no problems with FM or VHF, UHF was sometimes a problem. Of course the stations outside the coast seem to broadcast at a greater strength, some days I can pick up STL AM and can't get DC ones. The Salisbury networks may be available since the signal is coming across water instead of over land, some days I could get Norfolk FM loud and clear before I got satellite in the truck. Looks like I'm out of luck unless I want to spend a lot of money or Dish gets its act together and adds PBS HD to its lineup.

 

[phlatwound]

jlabsher, have you considered putting up a Ku-band dish? It would need to be a minimum of 30" (36"-39" might be better).

There are several free-to-air HD and SD PBS channels/feeds on the AMC21 satellite @ 125W.

I'm not real familiar with them, but I know there's also a lot of radio channels that you can receive for free with that same dish (on various satellites), not sure what your daughter wants to listen to (I have a 15 year old so I might have an idea though ).

If you motorized that dish you could scan your viewable arc and get all kinds of free tv (news and sports feeds, etc.) and radio.

Check this this out to see some of the 24/7 tv stuff that is available:

SatelliteGuys.US - TheList

Of course this gets back to the money issue, depending on how much of the installation you can do yourself...and how much of the equipment you can scrounge, you could probably put up a fixed SD-capable system in the range $100-$200, HD capability will add another hundred or 2........and a motor will add another $100 +/-.

I can tell you that the picture quality is far superior to anything you will get on Dish orDirecTv.

If you are interested check out the FTA forums here at SatGuys, lots of people willing to answer any questions you have.....just like the smart and helpful fellers here at the OTA forum.

 

[No Static At All]

Looks like I'm out of luck unless I want to spend a lot of money or Dish gets its act together and adds PBS HD to its lineup.

You could try this low cost Radio Shack antenna for getting HD PBS from Salisbury. If it doesn't work, you can easily return it.

 

[CowboyDren]

City-to-city, Salisbury is around 80 miles from Lexington Park, at about 230°. Why would you spend time trying to grab that, versus the PBS in Baltimore, which is less than 50 miles away at 350°? There's another PBS that's less than 60 at 325° (DC)...actually, most of the stations in DC are less than 50 miles away, and most are UHF, to boot. The only station that's not UHF is ABC. This only reinforces the 4-bay + Preamp option I offered before. If you're handy, you could cobble that together for under $200 and have it functioning in a long afternoon.

Out of curiosity, what local channels does Comcast or Verizon offer on your cozy little peninsula? With the Dish Welcome Pack + Locals, you could get good TV service from either market via satellite, and PBS in HD from the OTA tuner section on any VIP series receiver...for about $35 per month. Certainly, that's half the cost of Comcast digital cable, and still a bit less than FiOS.

 

[No Static At All]

Salibury's PBS`is closer (46 vs 57 miles) & much stronger (LOS vs 2 edge) to the OP's location than the Annapolis PBS affiliate. The DC & Baltimore stations are also much weaker than Salisbury.

 

[CowboyDren]

I'm almost totally unfamiliar with the terrain out there (I spent a couple of weeks in Shady Side back in '95), so I'm just a guy looking at maps on the internet. I will say, though, that a 4-bay bowtie has a higher, more even gain curve than that flying wedge does, but you can't just source one locally for $35.

 

[Peter Parker]

That's waaaay too much work. A UHF-only antenna will outperform that monster FM-VHF-UHF combo at an eighth the size and a quarter the cost (Antennacraft U4000). You wouldn't have the VHF source for WJLA ABC7 (Baltimore) or WBAL NBC11 (DC), but you may get lucky and have SD versions of those channels on a UHF sub-channel.

T.

WJLA is in DC and WBAL is in Baltimore. Neither has an SD version in the UHF band.

 

[CowboyDren]

Sorry. Once again, trying to put three screens' worth of data into one sentence.

 

[Houston]

CowboyDren,

HA !, I agree with you (almost) completely !

I was expecting to go into the smaller Antenna setups, when the OP bauked at the one mentioned first. Also was expecting him to modify his criteria, omitting the need for a couple stations, and the addition of the separate FMSS.

That (almost) being where I'd suggest going with (as you) with the UVSJ to combine, but, using a...
Winegard CA-8800
to separate them inside.

Other than that, the original proposal would have gotten him ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in sight !

Have a good Day !
S.W.

 

[Splicer]

Other than that, the original proposal would have gotten him ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in sight !


S.W.

You mean all 4 stations?

 

[dodge]

easy solution
winegard HD8200u will get fm, all tv and a rotor on a 5' ttripod on the roof and pair it with a winegard ap8275 preamp will get you everything, one antenna less complicated all services, just make sure to set the fm trap out on the preamp!!!

 

[CowboyDren]

There is nothing "easy" about wrestling an antenna that's nearly ten feet wide with a fourteen foot boom. 12-14dB of UHF gain is impressive, but over a third of that antenna doesn't do any good for the OP. And then he'd have to use a rotator if his favorite FM market isn't his favorite TV market. Multiple, smaller antennas will perform on par with this for about the same money, and have a much lower PITA factor.