Fuzzy Picture (1 Viewer)

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kslates

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Aug 22, 2004
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I have a 57" Sony TV rear projector and I just got 1 3room system on Saturday but my picture is really fuzzy and isn't clear at all. I got the Directv d10 receiver. Is it my TV, cords, or receiver that is messed up? What should i do? Thanks for your help
 

Alvarez

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 19, 2004
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Brownsburg, IN
I thought the same thing when I got my 65" widescreen. What I came to find out is that it was compression. Satellite compresses the signal and you notice this on a big screen to where you wouldn't notice it on a smaller tv.

This has improved since the addition of other satellites to open up some bandwidth I believe though.
 

justsatellites

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Feb 5, 2004
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If it is worse than a compression issue, the the problem is a bad cable somewhere. Unlike the old C-band days, or the use of an off air antenna, a "fuzzy picture" is not possible with a digital receiver (unless it is a bad connector on the receiver). With DTV or E* you either have (1) Good Picture (2) Pixelization <sp> (3) No Picture. I would start replacing cables.
 

Lem52

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 18, 2004
249
1
Cookeville, TN
I don't think any cables is going to cure the problem. The problem is the satellite companies.

You can see the compression on some channels with backgrounds jumping around as the pictures are just horribly overcompressed. Directv and Dish have put out this crap for so long that its accepted by anyone who gets their servicies. They keep getting more and more subscribers, adding more and more locals in order to keep pulling in new subscribers and keep turning that knob of compression higher and higher.

No it isn't the cables!

Lem52
 

shappyss

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 26, 2004
200
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LI, NY / Boston MA
The big screen will never show SD channels as well as smaller screens because of the compression but you can make sure that you are using the best connection available for your reciever and your tv. I dont no what connections your box has but use them in this order- DVI, Component, S-video, Composite, and aviod standard RF cable. Hope this helps, but the picture will always look worse on a bigger screen. Think about getting a HD box and you will never want to watch SD channels on your big screen again!!
 

Mike Greer

SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 10, 2004
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justsatellites said:
If it is worse than a compression issue, the the problem is a bad cable somewhere. Unlike the old C-band days, or the use of an off air antenna, a "fuzzy picture" is not possible with a digital receiver (unless it is a bad connector on the receiver). With DTV or E* you either have (1) Good Picture (2) Pixelization <sp> (3) No Picture. I would start replacing cables.

I have had Dish Network in the past and currently I have DirecTV. I have yet - in all these years - to see ANY SD picture I would consider to be a 'Good Picture'.

Neither Dish Network nor DirecTV care about picture quality. I am about to go back to C band for SD because DirecTV is going the wrong direction and Dish Network isn't far behind. Even my neighbors analog cable looks better than my DirecTV "100% Digital Quality" crap.
 

Lem52

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 18, 2004
249
1
Cookeville, TN
The only thing about going back to c-band is most programmers are going to digital using the digicipher 2 signal or something else. The drawback to that is there isn't much you can subscribe too because they are not making it available to people who have the equipment. Most of the movie channels, you can get, but other stuff like TBS, TNT, etc. some still in analog, but they are going to be unavailable soon. They are going slowly but they will be gone!

Lem52
 

slacker9876

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May 20, 2004
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Spokane, WA
kslates said:
I have a 57" Sony TV rear projector and I just got 1 3room system on Saturday but my picture is really fuzzy and isn't clear at all. I got the Directv d10 receiver. Is it my TV, cords, or receiver that is messed up? What should i do? Thanks for your help
First of all let me say I disagree with everything that has been posted in relation to compression. This is simply NOT TRUE. Yes the signals are compressed, however, kslates likely has a poorly crimped connection or a pinched cable somewhere in the chain.

I currently have DirecTV, Comcast Basic and OTA setup on my 55" WS RPTV and DirecTV is far superior to any of these mediums except for the DTV OTA transmissions.

Kslates, providing you have a wide screen TV, try shrinking the picture to 4:3 ratio for SD viewing. In line with what I said above all programming looks somewhat grainy on 16:9 TV's unless, you do this. It is because you are stretching the image to fill your screen. There are in fact defects in all programming signals (including digital) and these effects are blown up the larger your screen, the worse the problem. However, stretching the image from 4:3 to 16:9 only makes it worse.

If your TV is 4:3 and not 16:9, I would first question coax crimped connections, pinched or bent cable, then dish alignment, then line of sight (LOS) issues. If you can provide in your next post your dish type, location, cable routing, cable length (guess) and other details you may think of, that will help.

Compression does play a factor in image quality, I am not disputing that. I am only saying that this is not his issue. There are millions of us watching and if the picture was that bad not only would we have cable but D* would never quit getting calls (like Voom). I personally play with this 2 years ago when I went WS, because I was like WTF!??! Believe me, the images on my 55" WS RPTV are just as good now as they are on my 24" Sony Wega.
 

kslates

Thread Starter
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Aug 22, 2004
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OK, first of all my TV is a 57" widescreen Sony. My other 2 TV's are 19" and 32" and the picture is fine on those. I went to the settings on my directv menu and changed it to 4:3 for viewing, is that what you are talking about?

I have a Funai Oval triple LNB dish and it came with 3 Directv D10 receivers. The dish is mounted on my roof and there is a tree nearby but it doesn't affect the other 2 TV's. The cable goes from my roof to the basement and then back up to the living room on the main floor. I would say the cable is about 50 feet.

Like I said, it was a very good picture with just my rabbit ears when I watched a football game on Friday night, got the dish installed on Saturday and then this happened. I am pretty upset because I was expecting a much better picture.

If you have any other questions I will be happy to answer
 

slacker9876

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May 20, 2004
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Spokane, WA
kslates said:
OK, first of all my TV is a 57" widescreen Sony. My other 2 TV's are 19" and 32" and the picture is fine on those. I went to the settings on my directv menu and changed it to 4:3 for viewing, is that what you are talking about?

I have a Funai Oval triple LNB dish and it came with 3 Directv D10 receivers. The dish is mounted on my roof and there is a tree nearby but it doesn't affect the other 2 TV's. The cable goes from my roof to the basement and then back up to the living room on the main floor. I would say the cable is about 50 feet.

Like I said, it was a very good picture with just my rabbit ears when I watched a football game on Friday night, got the dish installed on Saturday and then this happened. I am pretty upset because I was expecting a much better picture.

If you have any other questions I will be happy to answer
Your Sony TV has a mode to change aspect (Wide, Zoom, Normal, Standard) something like that. You will want to find the mode that gives you an actual 4:3 ratio ... it will put black or grey bars on the sides of the picture. Usually you can set them to black as grey can be distracting to the picture. Some receivers do this also, like the Hughes HTL-HD.

I would leave your receiver set at 16:9 unless this is HD receiver, I am not familiar with the D10 model, and adjust the modes with the TV. If the D10 is an SD receiver I would set it at 4:3 and make sure you have the bars for all broadcasts ... yes it kinda stinks looking at the bars but as with a WS DVD on a 4:3 TV you get used to it very quickly. This will take care of what you are seeing as far as degraded picture quality. If you get it setup and it still looks like crap let us know ... I could be wrong but I doubt it :)

You have the good dish and your cable lengths are fine. Are the cables home runs to the receivers or do they tie into you "cable box" outside your home? If they tie in outside are they RG6 or RG59? The cables will be labeled. You may want to keep the rabbit ears handy if you are able to get DTV (not DirecTV) programming with your TV. Do you know if your TV has a built-in ATSC tuner?

Anything I can do to help! This is a great site for stuff like this but sometimes you need a grain of salt too. Most here are VERY good when it comes to advice too. We have a lot of installers and sat company reps that are members. I could not stand that PQ was blamed on the compression ... makes me fussy :) Voom has compression related PQ probs, but mostly D* has superior PQ as does Dish, I prefer D* to E*, that is all.
 

kslates

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Aug 22, 2004
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The cables are RG6.


Thanks for your help! I don't think it helped too much when I changed my TV to get the 4:3 picture but it was a little better.
 

slacker9876

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May 20, 2004
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kslates said:
The cables are RG6.
Thanks for your help! I don't think it helped too much when I changed my TV to get the 4:3 picture but it was a little better.
That is because the image is not stretched, so inherently there are less defects. You did have bars on the sides of your screen when you changed it to 4:3 right?

Just as the last question, in your setup or installation menu you can view the signal strength. What is your signal strength on the 101 Satellite, on Transponder 1?
 

Mike Greer

SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 10, 2004
103
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Mr. Wolf... I hate to disagree but...

You must be looking at your picture through rose colored classes. Cable problems between the dish and or switches will cause you to have either NO picture or a block filled picture - not a fuzzy picture. If there is a cable problem it would have to be between the TV and the receiver.

I don't doubt that you think you have a great picture but unless you have seen either an over-the-air broadcast or even better a broadcast over C-Band satellite you have just been 'trained' by Dish and DirecTV and cable co's to think you have a great picture.

DirecTV is cramming way too many channels into too few transponders to get a 'good picture'. If you have a small enough TV then fine but if you have anything bigger than 27" the over-compressed "100% Digital Quality" crap served up by cable, Dish Network, DirecTV or Voom is still 100% crap!

The easy way to know if there is a cable problem is to just look at any of the menus from the receiver. If the picture is good there then you don't have a cable problem. If the picture looks like crap when you have live TV showing then you have DirecTV, Voom, Dish Network or Digital Cable.

Sorry - this is just the way it is...
 

slacker9876

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May 20, 2004
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Spokane, WA
Mr Greer :)

I am saying that I have taken note of the issues that he is seeing. When I change to 4:3 on my 16:9 TV for SD programs, my picture is substantially better. Not saying is is without defect. About 40% clearer. Problems in your connections will cause this .. ask the installers here.

I do know a good pic when I see one. I have OTA DTV & sometimes HDTV ... now those are plain gorgeous .. but I did say that before too. BTW: My D* locals are far clearer than anything I get analog ... it is simple math 400 horizontal lines "looks" better than 225 horizontal lines :yes OTA unless it si DTV is plain horrid here in Colorado.

Have you seen Pulp Fiction? Just checking ...
 

Neutron

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Nov 7, 2003
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One thing you will have to learn about a big screen TV is since SD programming wasn't intended for a large screen you will see artifacts (imperfections) in the picture.
 

DaveO

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 3, 2003
172
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Neutron said:
One thing you will have to learn about a big screen TV is since SD programming wasn't intended for a large screen you will see artifacts (imperfections) in the picture.

I've seen people say this before, but I just don't see them on my Toshiba HDX82 model. Maybe it's the line doubling or something? Very happy with my reception!
 

Mike Greer

SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 10, 2004
103
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slacker9876 said:
Mr Greer :)

I am saying that I have taken note of the issues that he is seeing. When I change to 4:3 on my 16:9 TV for SD programs, my picture is substantially better. Not saying is is without defect. About 40% clearer. Problems in your connections will cause this .. ask the installers here.

I do know a good pic when I see one. I have OTA DTV & sometimes HDTV ... now those are plain gorgeous .. but I did say that before too. BTW: My D* locals are far clearer than anything I get analog ... it is simple math 400 horizontal lines "looks" better than 225 horizontal lines :yes OTA unless it si DTV is plain horrid here in Colorado.

Have you seen Pulp Fiction? Just checking ...

I agree with you that the picture gets worse if you stretch it out. If an installer here says that a cable problem between the Dish/Switches and the receiver will cause a "fuzzy" picture then they shouldn't be an installer! Cable problems between the receiver, dish and switches will cause things like no picture, intermittent picture drop outs and the world famous 'blocking' of digital pictures.

A cable problem between the receiver and the display could cause a "fuzzy" picture but like I said before it is easy to diagnose this... Just hit guide or go into one of the setup menus - if the picture is crisp and clear there is not a cable problem!

The problem with your math comment on 400 lines is that there are no DBS providers that allow sufficient bandwidth use to get anywhere close to 400 lines. If they had static pictures rather than video they could come close but not in the real world! Have you ever tried to read the fine print in those lovely commercials? You may have a chance with analog 200-300 lines but with over-compressed digital you don't have a chance.

I'm more than willing to shut my mouth and admit I'm wrong but unless you have some new technical info on how/why a cable could cause these problems... I'll just have to keep rambling on and on! :)

I did see Pulp Fiction but it was on DirecTV so it's all kind of a blur to me - what was it about again? :D
 

slacker9876

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May 20, 2004
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Spokane, WA
okay then, lets keep this simple. I understand what your saying on the cable ... I am more analog the line of bad connections ... bent broken cable WOULD cause loss ... even if just a few TP's, so we agree.

BUT

Why does cable look so crappy and satellite so good then? I have BOTH and the cable looks like CRAP, please help me to understand why my SAT looks twice as good as my cable.
 

directvrep

SatelliteGuys Family
Aug 5, 2004
54
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True Digital Quality

To qualify ourselves as " 100% digital quality picture " and " CD quality sound " we must provide no fewer than 400 lines COMPRESSED, up to 512 lines uncompressed quality picture. D* has dropped below 400 lines 1 time in 10 years :shocked ... that was the 1st year of operation when the sat went completely down. Compression ratio does not cut down on the amount of lines PQ provided. The further data is compressed the more it tends to sque... or merge data causing pixelization. We must also continuously provide nothing less than 128 bt/ 16 ccm audio, which as well has only gone down 1 time. If for some reason the data transfer of PQ from your DTV IRD to your TV is " crappy" then I suggest you contact us :yes , we would be more than glad to t/s or have a replacement IRD sent to you.... at the very least we would be glad to send a service call. ( as a tip, using RCA jacks, or S-vid cables really improve the pic quality )
Feel free to call, we are tole free and open 24/7 for customer service or tech support call 1-800-531-5000 and if you don't want to wait for the menus, chose option 0 then option 4. :smug

Your Friendly DTV Res Spec
white_knight_2010@yahoo.com
 
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