Grounding

slick1ru2

slick1ru2

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 29, 2004
626
21
The South
Had DirecTV via one of their local contractors install a system last week. Had Voom do an install yesterday and the Voom guy told me the new line DirecTV installers put in wasn't grounded. So the guy comes out today and grounds it to an outside faucet. Now I have read that you aren't supposed to do that, it doesn't meet The National Electric Code. I tell the installer that and he says it meets code, they do it all the time, and that they wouldn't let them do if it it wasn't. Of course I am going to call the local building inspectors office Monday and make sure, but anyone else have the same experience?
 
PSB

PSB

On vacation
Nov 5, 2003
1
5
Wow! I was just reading about this issue over at dbsinstall.com they have a great document all about it, it is OK to ground to the faucet ONLY IF IT IS WITHIN 5' feet of the water pipes point of entry (where it comes in from the street, or up through the ground in my home, many are), other than that it should not be done. Tell them you will report them to the state Electrical board and they will be right round to put it right : ) If they can, thats often the problem some locations just cant be ground to code, and the installer WANTS to get the system installed $$$$$$$$ And if the customer REALLY wants satellite TV, thats when its often done! When I worked for the local DirecTV HSP, we were NEVER to use a faucet, ground to code or walk away! If everyone checked their installers license (if needed in your state) and SBCA 1+2 certification alot of these issues would never come up, tell them when you schedule you will be doing it and they will send round their best installers : )
 
slick1ru2

slick1ru2

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 29, 2004
626
21
The South
Thanks Pete. The grounded cable box is maybe 6 feet beyond the faucet. My water main comes into the house in the center by the hot water heater, maybe 20 feet from the faucet. I'm calling DirecTV and telling them I don't want the same company out here again, but I want it fixed...pronto.
 
PSB

PSB

On vacation
Nov 5, 2003
1
5
That explains it, it would have cost the installer another $1 to run the ground cable an extra 6 feet, another thing to watch for is to MAKE the satellite installer run his own ground cable and clamp/ground block, as to unground the cable companies line is against the law!!!!!! Beware dont give them anything to complain about as they get mad when they loose another customer to satellite! Have fun, make them get it right : )
 
red hazard

red hazard

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Oct 13, 2003
557
7
St Louis Metro East (Illinois)
Water Pipe Ground

In this area, (southern Illinois), it's common to run blue plastic pipe from street into the house and then change to copper pipe within the residence. If one has this type of water pipe installation, it cannot be used as a ground.
 
TheForce

TheForce

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Pub Member / Supporter
Oct 13, 2003
34,337
11,298
Jacksonville, FL, Earth
PSB is essentially correct-

The 5 ft rule was adopted in the 1999 revision of the NEC but the rule is not that simple. If the building uses plastic pipe or it is suspected that the water piping system is not offering at minimum 10 ft of ground contact to all metal piping from the point of connection then the water pipe method may not be allowed. IMO, the NEC is not the only word on this issue. Because many modern building practices have been implemented using non-metallic construction techniques, reliable water pipe grounding is not assumed these days. I believe one needs to follow the guidelines of the NEC, then also fiollow the local building codes, and finally, use good engineering practice.

In my dish and antenna farm, located in the lightning capital of the world, Florida, I have each dish system (2) fed via a #10 copper wire to a 10 ft. standard copperweld ground rod driven into the ground directly below each dish system. My OTA antenna is bonded to one of the dish 10 ft ground rods as well as the mast is bonded to a cast iron sewer vent pipe which is all metal to the plastic sewer pipe under the street. It runs cast iron for 100 ft in the ground before the plastic main. Just to be sure I also bonded this mast and antenna to one of the dishes located 30 ft. using a 6 ga aluminum wire. All sat switch boxes are bonded to the ground rod. All 6 coax sat feeds are grounded with standard coax ground blocks just prior to wall entry at the 10 ft ground rod.

When the cable and telephone wires were installed. I supplied the demarcation boxes with it's own 10 ft. ground rod. Under the new rules, all home owners are responsible for all communications wiring up to and including the demarcation box.
 
B

bobj2004

SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 9, 2004
141
0
Is it OK to not Ground the Dish Its self but instead Ground further down the Coax Runs with the include Coax combiner/Grounder?

In other words dont have to ground the dish itself, but ground the Coax feeds?
 
silversurfer

silversurfer

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
1,147
1
Las Vegas, Nevada
Since this covers grounding concerns that affect any satellite provider it is being moved to the general satellite forum....
 
PSB

PSB

On vacation
Nov 5, 2003
1
5
Its better than nothing but the dish has to be grounded also to follow the NEC code. There are some good diagrams here about grounding....

www.dbsinstall.com
 
cdru

cdru

Just another yahoo
Supporting Founder
Dec 4, 2003
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Fort Wayne, Indiana
bobj2004 said:
Is it OK to not Ground the Dish Its self but instead Ground further down the Coax Runs with the include Coax combiner/Grounder?

In other words dont have to ground the dish itself, but ground the Coax feeds?
Both should be grounded. The coax shield, what ultimately is grounded, ever makes contact with the metal dish. A seperate messenger wire is usually ran fron the dish to any necessary switches to a grounding block to ground. If you just have a single multiswitch such as the DP34, you can use that in place of a ground block if the switch is situated near the entry point of the house. If not, a ground block should be used near that entry point.

In some houses, the cold water line has it's own grounding strap, usually somewhere around the water meter. My house as well as my parents house is that way. This puts the entire cold water system at the same potential, hopefully none. It is still preferential to run a decent guage wire directly to the grounding rod.

Remember that the grounding wire isn't used for lighting protection, it's used in lighting avoidance. It allows the static buildup to discharge instead of accumulating, potentially attracting lightinging. If lighting hits, that little piece of copper is going to vaporize quickly.
 
P

peteranton

Member
Feb 10, 2004
10
0
..outside of having DOUBLE the lines coming from your dish to ground (it may, or may not be a problem for you....my D* installer was one of the lazy ones), you have many other options to protect your equipment.
 
Mike_H

Mike_H

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
770
5
Twin Cities, MN
cdru said:
Remember that the grounding wire isn't used for lighting protection, it's used in lighting avoidance. It allows the static buildup to discharge instead of accumulating, potentially attracting lightinging. If lighting hits, that little piece of copper is going to vaporize quickly.


Static building up on satellite dishes certainly plays little if any role in "attracting" lightning.

The purpose of proper grounding of the Coax is to ensure that there is a single point of ground within the electrical service of the home, preventing ground loops. The dish itself is electrically isolated from the LNB and the coax so any electrical potential on it should not impact the lnb, or the cable into the house.

Proper NEC grounding is about protecting humans, not electronic devices. If the goal is to protect equipment from lightning strikes, there are other tacts that need to be taken.

Regardless, in general, grounding to a water pipe is not the recommended method to ensure a single point of grounding. It may be sufficient in someone's house but in general it should not be relied upon.
 
H

HDTV Rookie

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Dec 1, 2003
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Texas
PSB said:
Wow! I was just reading about this issue over at dbsinstall.com they have a great document all about it, it is OK to ground to the faucet ONLY IF IT IS WITHIN 5' feet of the water pipes point of entry (where it comes in from the street


Ok I need some clarity on this issue, b/c I had Dish out at my house today about grounding issues. They installed 2 dishes and then ran a grounding wire into my house between 6-10 feet to the pipe for the water spicket that leads to outside. Now they attached it to a clamp basically a few inches from where the pipe enters the house.

So please clarify, if by 5 feet, you mean the distance the grounding wire is ran from the dishes to the pipe can not be more than 5 feet,

or the position on the pipe you attach the grounding wire to can not be more than 5 feet away from where the pipe enters the house. meaning, you could not attach to the middle of a 20 foot pipe

By the way, my main pipes and the water meter are on the other side of my house. Also, not sure if it matters, but I have a gas pipe and gas meter right next to the pipe they attached the ground to. Do I have a reason to be concerned if I get a static or electric charge on that grounding wire being within inches of my gas lines.
 
Mike500

Mike500

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 7, 2003
1,338
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Thiepval
In the 2002 NEC, the master ground to a water pipe within five feet of entry is no longer sufficient. An eight foot ground rod completely with at least a #6 copper conductor is required, even if the water pipe ground exists. The easiest method is to run the ground cable from the buried rod to to the watthour meter box.
 
D

dishjockey

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 2, 2004
115
0
Mike correct me if I'am wrong but I don't think we're talking about a master ground here.
I haven't seen anything in the code that says we can't bond to a properly grounded water system.
 

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