H20's to delete internal RF capability?

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Rethink This

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Original poster
May 12, 2005
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We have been told by our supplier that the H20 will no longer include
RF capability along with the optional RF antenna. They are suggesting we purchase a separate RF Kit for $25.00 each. We do commercial installs and need RF! Has anyone else heard about this?:eek: :(
 
Actually, the RF remote has become an extra cost item. Look in the latest owners manuals. You can purchase the RF remote kit (with the needed RF antenna) from D* for $30. As for why it has been downgraded to a non-RF remote, consider this. The RC32 is $15. The RC32RF is $25 and the RF antenna is $5. D* saves $15 per receiver by downgrading to an IR only remote. I'd imagine D* discovered that only a small percentage of H20 users were using the RF function of the remote and decided it was more cost effective to make it an extra cost accessory.
 
Yep - makes sense. Unfortunately for us, commercial installs are preferably RF. Our supplier, Perfect 10, charges $35 for the UHF Remote Kit LRRX which includes the antenna. We're thinking of making our own antennas for the $10 difference. I'll check out the $5 antenna price you mentioned.
Thanks!
 
Removing the RF ability is a stupid move. They say people do not use it ?
BS. I for one have used RF remotes since around 1980 when I got into the C-Band sats.
Doesn't DISH have a RF funtion on thier newer receivers ?
You would think thay would want to add features not remove them.

When is this removal suppose to take place ?

Is there a link talking about this from D* or is it speculation?

Are you talking about removing the RF as in the NEW one as they come out will not have them or D* turning off the RF funtion on the existing ones ?

It seems like D* has just now managed to get RF as a possible item on alot of their receivers, and now they want to do away with it, for another way for them to make money, at least thats now a monthly option. I thnk my cable system charges you for the use of thier remote, and that is nothing special, IR to boot, but no one is going to buy it with out haveing a remote available.

Jimbo
 
Are you talking about removing the RF as in the NEW one as they come out will not have them or D* turning off the RF funtion on the existing ones ?

Neither, Jimbo. D* has just made the RF remote and antenna an extra cost option that has to be ordered separately. I'm sure this is a cost saving move as most people use the remote as an IR remote so why put a $25 Rf remote and a $5 antenna in the box when a $15 IR remote will suffice?

To restate, D* is NOT turning off the RF capability in the HD receivers... they've just stopped selling them with an incuded RF remote and antenna.. You have to buy it separately. Clear now?
 
Neither, Jimbo. D* has just made the RF remote and antenna an extra cost option that has to be ordered separately. I'm sure this is a cost saving move as most people use the remote as an IR remote so why put a $25 Rf remote and a $5 antenna in the box when a $15 IR remote will suffice?

To restate, D* is NOT turning off the RF capability in the HD receivers... they've just stopped selling them with an incuded RF remote and antenna.. You have to buy it separately. Clear now?

OK, but the HR20-700 has a built in RF antenna set up, I wonder if the next shipments will be done without the built in RF antenna ....

If I were doing it again, I would still buy the HR20-700 without it, but sure do like the idea that it has one in it already.
My old Sony HD 100 had one also.

Jimbo
 
OK, but the HR20-700 has a built in RF antenna set up, I wonder if the next shipments will be done without the built in RF antenna...

Why would they, Jimbo? Deleting the RF antenna without deleting the capability would mean adding an extra connector on the back of the DVR. That bit of redesign would negate any possible cost savings from deleting the internal antenna.

Besides, I have a suspicion that HR20 owners are even a bit more tech savvy than most H20 customers and would demand RF remote capability out of the box.

It sounds as if you are getting worked up over nothing, Jimbo.
 
Last H20 I tried to program for RF didnt do anything. I used antenna from another H20 receiver so antenna should be compatible. Menu had RF setup. But after I tried to program and followed all the steps remote didnt go to RF. In fact it just stopped working. I had to manually reset it back to IR.
As to money saving I disagree. Those remotes cost Directv nothing. Now think about this - new H20 boxes come with HDMI cable. Why would you add an expensive cable free of charge while trying to save money on remotes?
 
Think about it.

They eliminated the coax in all boxes even though people thought it was stupid, this may be true.

Honestly I see good reason to make it an option. If that is truly the cost diff. of the remote to no remote it could help them make them free/lower cost and sell more. Also, I have personally installed over 100 HD boxes in my time as an installer, only once did the RF remote capability become a necessity. I think i only ever programmed 3 to be RF remotes, 1 necessity, 1 out of pure curiosity, and 1 per customer request (they didn't need it, but liked the idea).

So if roughly 3% are using this option.... why drop the money? If it lowers the price of the box or diffuses another increase in cost elsewhere, it will pay off in the long run.

Business is a cold world sometimes, but it makes sense.

Let's say of the 3 I installed...

the curiosity one wouldn't have mattered
the customer request although it isn't needed instances would likely not result in a canceled order, but let's say some people are picky and draw it at 20% cancel rate. (roughly .2% of all HD customers)

The needed portion, let's say it is a 35 dollar option.


let's break it down....

70% of these type customers
businesses are already paying a LOT for d*, so they have to be making money back on it (PPV WWE nights, Football ticket, general TV) so is $35 bucks gonna be a deal breaker when they are already looking at a large bill to install and program the things? Probably not, but there are some that will so let's be generous and say another 25%

So 25% of 70% of 1% is roughly 17.5% of 1% so .175%

15% of these type customers
Home Theater and high dollar setup
customers... these guys buy 100 buck monster cables for a vcr, MAYBE 10% of them would cancel... MAYBE 10% of 15% of 1% is .015%


15% of these customers
Joe Six pack with a picky wife or a "custom" made entertainment center
Ok, these guys will cancel at the highest rate for the extra charge, let's say 66%, or 2/3 for another cum of 5% of 1% or .05%


so 0.24 % of customers would cancel. let's round that to .25% for fun.

15 million customers, and let's say 1 million of those have HD (that is VERY generous)

1 million boxes, with a savings of 25 bucks a box would be a 25 savings per say

now the loss of customer side of things....

1,ooo,ooo x .25% = 2500 customers

AVG lost HD customer monthly bill, lets say 120 bucks (not all have premier pack, but a lot)

Let's say 50% of that is profit, so 60 x 12 is 720

720 x 2500 = 1,800,000 a year lost

IF the cost was $20 a box, not the $35 given earlier... they buy in bulk, that would, at 1 million HD customers, save them 25 million

at that rate, the loss of customers cost would take over 13.5 years to exceed the savings, and those are with my bias towards cancellation numbers.

Now, if that down the road means lower box cost, that would mean more customers without the RF so the difference is null and void.

It isn't bad customer service because the option is there and is not very expensive to add.

SO why would it matter again?
 
Last H20 I tried to program for RF didnt do anything. I used antenna from another H20 receiver so antenna should be compatible. Menu had RF setup. But after I tried to program and followed all the steps remote didnt go to RF. In fact it just stopped working. I had to manually reset it back to IR.
As to money saving I disagree. Those remotes cost Directv nothing. Now think about this - new H20 boxes come with HDMI cable. Why would you add an expensive cable free of charge while trying to save money on remotes?

because more people will want and use HDMI cables than RF remotes?:eek:
 
Think about it.

They eliminated the coax in all boxes even though people thought it was stupid, this may be true.

Honestly I see good reason to make it an option. If that is truly the cost diff. of the remote to no remote it could help them make them free/lower cost and sell more. Also, I have personally installed over 100 HD boxes in my time as an installer, only once did the RF remote capability become a necessity. I think i only ever programmed 3 to be RF remotes, 1 necessity, 1 out of pure curiosity, and 1 per customer request (they didn't need it, but liked the idea).

So if roughly 3% are using this option.... why drop the money? If it lowers the price of the box or diffuses another increase in cost elsewhere, it will pay off in the long run.
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Just because you did not set the RF funtion up for your subs, does not mean they don't use it.
I had to show my installer that the HR20-700 actually had RF capablity.
He was unaware of it.
But then again, I had to let him know that the OTA antenna did not work either, (when I got mine, it was still turned off)

I have always used mine , when it was available to me.

Jimbo
 
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Why would they, Jimbo? Deleting the RF antenna without deleting the capability would mean adding an extra connector on the back of the DVR. That bit of redesign would negate any possible cost savings from deleting the internal antenna.

Besides, I have a suspicion that HR20 owners are even a bit more tech savvy than most H20 customers and would demand RF remote capability out of the box.

It sounds as if you are getting worked up over nothing, Jimbo.

Newshawk,
I just don't think this is a real wise idea.
this is the 1st time I have heard anything like this coming. Maybe it's just a rumor, I hope.

Jimbo
 
I realize that this is an old thread but I wanted to relay this tidbit. I called d* the other day for an unrelated reason and while I was waiting for the csr to bring up something on her computer, I ask her what was the deal with my h20 that the rf function wouldn't work. She ask me what remote I had, and after telling her, she said that my only problem was that I had the wrong remote. She also said that I should have been sent the rf remote in the first place and lo and behold, I received the new remote w/antenna in 24 hrs at no charge. I didn't pitch a fit or anything, so maybe all you have to do is ask. Or maybe I just got lucky. :)
 
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