Harmonic Encoder Improvements? (Feedback Need it)
- Thread starter SmiGump
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Come on Voom! This so called tweaking is going on 3 weeks now. If you can't get it right, go back to the old encoders until you can get the new ones fixed. Or at least until you can hire someone that knows what they're doing.
I tried to watch the penguin show on Equator last night and gave up. Motion aritfacs were the worst I have seen yet. And to be completely honest, my progressive scan DVD player now looks better than your HD. I am really questioning why I am still paying for crappy PQ. E might only have 5 HD channels but at least the PQ is good on them and I can actually stand to watch them.
I tried to watch the penguin show on Equator last night and gave up. Motion aritfacs were the worst I have seen yet. And to be completely honest, my progressive scan DVD player now looks better than your HD. I am really questioning why I am still paying for crappy PQ. E might only have 5 HD channels but at least the PQ is good on them and I can actually stand to watch them.
Is there a light on the dark side of HDTV.
I'm so mad at my self for going HD so early in the game!! I loved the idea of NFL HD and Baseball HD but no one ever said that you can only get them from IO digital cable from New York, now I'm DOOM to sit out the rest of the season 05' because I dont have Fox Sport Network NY SD or HD or MSG SD or HD, I'm starting to believe that HD is going to take me to the grave. NO HD DVD's just yet NO SPIEKE HD, no USA HD, no TBS HD and now pixel problems damme what did cable already forgot that we spent so much money in the HDTV monitor's and we spend MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year for service we are not asking for free stuff just better QP.
Is there a light on darkside of HDTV.
I'm so mad at my self for going HD so early in the game!! I loved the idea of NFL HD and Baseball HD but no one ever said that you can only get them from IO digital cable from New York, now I'm DOOM to sit out the rest of the season 05' because I dont have Fox Sport Network NY SD or HD or MSG SD or HD, I'm starting to believe that HD is going to take me to the grave. NO HD DVD's just yet NO SPIEKE HD, no USA HD, no TBS HD and now pixel problems damme what did cable already forgot that we spent so much money in the HDTV monitor's and we spend MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year for service we are not asking for free stuff just better QP.
Is there a light on darkside of HDTV.
gordo87: what does your post have to do with the subject of this thread? I suggest you remove it and re-post it in a new thread.
gutter said:
Something's not right with your receiver/installation.
PM me with your telephone number and we can go through all the possibilities (or at least the one's I can think of)
Just to start, try doing a hard boot (unplug unit from power for 30 seconds and plug it back in. Don't change any channels for around 30 minutes for the program guide to load.
Come on Voom
PQ tonight is terrible if there's any type of movement. I've went to various channels, world sport, rave, rush, the NBA game on TNTHD and they all are totally crap if there's any sort of movement.
Usually the NBA games on TNTHD are pretty good. Still PQ is great but even minor movement splotches and heavy up close movement create major pixelization groups.
Went over to Fox News to watch a little O'Reilly and the picture noise was so bad I had to change the channel.
I won't be happy until Voom HD channels match the PQ of OTA HD channels. It used to be great until those damn encoders. Don't know if it's the new encoders or the additional channels but somethings got to give here.
PQ tonight is terrible if there's any type of movement. I've went to various channels, world sport, rave, rush, the NBA game on TNTHD and they all are totally crap if there's any sort of movement.
Usually the NBA games on TNTHD are pretty good. Still PQ is great but even minor movement splotches and heavy up close movement create major pixelization groups.
Went over to Fox News to watch a little O'Reilly and the picture noise was so bad I had to change the channel.
I won't be happy until Voom HD channels match the PQ of OTA HD channels. It used to be great until those damn encoders. Don't know if it's the new encoders or the additional channels but somethings got to give here.
This is my second post on this subject..........I'm hoping for the best but the PQ is still not up to what it was before and I'm losing my interest. I got voom and watch voom for a reason..................the good PQ and if I don't have it, what's the purpose?
PQ is really not an issue right now and voom knows it! I say let the PQ be crap in the interm. when voom started the PQ was great and month later crap for a few days but they always fixed it. We all know the PQ is going to be sub par before moving to MPEG4, and voom knows it!!
i will live with a bad picture for as long as voom needs it bad. They have superior technology and are fully aware of the discerning eyes of its 50k subs.
i will live with a bad picture for as long as voom needs it bad. They have superior technology and are fully aware of the discerning eyes of its 50k subs.
KostaVan said:
your ranting this way will not do anything about the improvements that need to be made. Great post
I don't know if anyone is still looking seriously at the specific problems placed on this thread since it has gotten so long ... but .....
Is anyone watching KungFu right now? I am watching the "The Hidden Fortress" and for a awhile there the picture would do this weird stobe effect. For a few seconds the signal didn't seem to be moving at the normal fps rate and would "skip". Like a high compressed video stream that is dropping every other frame. Is this an example of "micro-stutter" or just a another symptom of the new encoder?
It looks like it cleared up now but a shame to happen during such a great movie. Annoying.
Is anyone watching KungFu right now? I am watching the "The Hidden Fortress" and for a awhile there the picture would do this weird stobe effect. For a few seconds the signal didn't seem to be moving at the normal fps rate and would "skip". Like a high compressed video stream that is dropping every other frame. Is this an example of "micro-stutter" or just a another symptom of the new encoder?
It looks like it cleared up now but a shame to happen during such a great movie. Annoying.
well I just got voom back and I have to say that channels 102-109 are very grainy but the rest of the HD channels look good .
Not sure why everyone keeps discussing the quality issue - given the current bandwidth and the current compression technology, Voom cannot deliver all of the channels with acceptable quality. They can tweak one channel, but it is at the cost of another. Granted, they may have some space reserved for quality improvement/new channels, but if they had sufficient space they would just optimize them all and call it good. All satellite providers struggle with this to varying degrees.
Think of the bandwidth as a fixed size box with a fixed volume. You can only put so many like sized items in that box before it is full. If you want to squeeze more items in there, some will have to be made smaller. In this case, smaller equates to reduced signal quality. Unless/until they get more tranponders, adding channels and then tweaking is just a juggling act. MPEG4 compression will change this - it will provide better quality given the same bandwidth.
Almost certainly what they are trying to address - if they are smart - are the top 5 (or so) reasons that have held subscriber count low:
You can certainly add/subtract to/from this list or juggle the order, but I think that's what they are facing. Part of their problem is that until they add bandwidth or go MPEG4, the channel variety and quality are mutually exclusive. If they can address the above problems even gradually, subscriber counts will take off.
If they want to improve quality they should stop adding channels, get rid of a few lame ones, get rid of a few SD channels where there is an indentical HD channel, and then tweak everything up a bit with the priority on HD. Then get more bandwidth and then crank quality again. Then get MPEG4 and crank quality again. Then only add channels if bandwidth is increased, leaving the quality set to something above their competitors. Of course they have to survive financially too - but quality is tied to that as well.
Think of the bandwidth as a fixed size box with a fixed volume. You can only put so many like sized items in that box before it is full. If you want to squeeze more items in there, some will have to be made smaller. In this case, smaller equates to reduced signal quality. Unless/until they get more tranponders, adding channels and then tweaking is just a juggling act. MPEG4 compression will change this - it will provide better quality given the same bandwidth.
Almost certainly what they are trying to address - if they are smart - are the top 5 (or so) reasons that have held subscriber count low:
- Not enough channel variety (getting better but many still need other sources in addition to Voom)
- Ability to support multiple rooms (three is a start, but I need six)
- DVR capability (can't come soon enough)
- Quality (will suck until Voom adds bandwidth and/or goes MPEG4)
- Cost (compare cost of multiple receivers to competitors)
You can certainly add/subtract to/from this list or juggle the order, but I think that's what they are facing. Part of their problem is that until they add bandwidth or go MPEG4, the channel variety and quality are mutually exclusive. If they can address the above problems even gradually, subscriber counts will take off.
If they want to improve quality they should stop adding channels, get rid of a few lame ones, get rid of a few SD channels where there is an indentical HD channel, and then tweak everything up a bit with the priority on HD. Then get more bandwidth and then crank quality again. Then get MPEG4 and crank quality again. Then only add channels if bandwidth is increased, leaving the quality set to something above their competitors. Of course they have to survive financially too - but quality is tied to that as well.
Well said! Let's just agree the PQ is suffering after adding 20 new channels and see what happens after 1 April. Assuming VOOM is able to break free from CVC and survive, they should have plenty of bandwidth and new programming available on Rainbow-2.
I just hate to see Voom traveling down the Dish path and continue to destroy their PQ. I quit watching Dish SD programming even when I was still veiwing on a 27" TV because it was so bad. This morning I'm watching Voom MTV on my 13" monitor and the PQ is absolutely horrible even at that size. How do you people put up with this? This is not acceptable to me and I have been bombarding Voom with emails telling them how dissatisfied I am with the current PQ issues and you guys should be doing the same.
I don't think having a single thread devoted to PQ issues for the encoders where the engineers are supposedly reading our comment is cutting it because the PQ is not improving. They may be juggling the PQ from channel to channel to try and fool us, but let's face it, their bandwidth is severely limited and they keep cramming more and more SD channels up there and it's only going to get worse.
If they keep this up, I could really care less if they quit operating because I can't watch it the way it looks anyway. I gave up Dish due to PQ and it certainly won't kill me to give up Voom due to lack of PQ. RIP Voom.
I don't think having a single thread devoted to PQ issues for the encoders where the engineers are supposedly reading our comment is cutting it because the PQ is not improving. They may be juggling the PQ from channel to channel to try and fool us, but let's face it, their bandwidth is severely limited and they keep cramming more and more SD channels up there and it's only going to get worse.
If they keep this up, I could really care less if they quit operating because I can't watch it the way it looks anyway. I gave up Dish due to PQ and it certainly won't kill me to give up Voom due to lack of PQ. RIP Voom.
I also wish to add that since the haromonics went active, Disney now has the red sparklies. I record shows for my daughter and never noticed them before, plus the PQ of Disney has severely deteriorated. I used to be able to watch her shows with her on my pj but now I limit her to watching on my 13" monitor and the noise is readily apparent at that size.
DarrellP said:
This is exactly how I feel about it too. I can not watch Voom with the PQ the way it is now. So I too am starting to say "so what" if Voom shuts down. I wish they would go back to the old encoders and dump the new channels until they have the proper bandwidth.
