HD Upgrade - No Self Installation Allowed???

[OHtechguy]

I've got a Quick HD question for you guys that you can hopefully put some logic to. I just got off the phone with DirecTV and two separate CSRs that informed me that I could not get HD without having one of their techs come out to my home for a Professional Installation. I am eligible for a free upgrade to HD with the usual 2 year contact and $10/month additional fee. (does that sound about right for a customer who has been with them since early '97?)

Anyway, I put the first install in and have added to it a few times over the years, and I am able to setup a new dish and multiswitch on my own. I work in IT and have all of the tools (Compression Tool, plenty of RG-6, etc) and know-how to do a simple job like this. On top of this, I am only adding a new HD receiver (not DVR), not a whole home install or MRV or anything like that.

The CSRs told me that even if I went and purchased all of the equipment on my own, I would still have to schedule a service call for one of their guys to come out and basically say "yes, it works" before they would activate my service. My question to all of you is this: Is there any way around this ridiculous requirement? I am in Central Ohio, East of Columbus (if that matters for dish type).

Thanks In Advance!

 

[kjlued]

Unless you have a proper meter and the knowledge of how to point an HD dish, you could never do it anyways.
You might get the dish close, but you would never get it dead on.
There is a lot more to pointing an HD dish then standard definition dish.
Besides, it is free.

That being said, I wish they would do this with every install as I am tired of having to go back and fix customer hack jobs because it gets too technologically advanced for them.
Especially when they offer the install for free.
It takes twice as much work for a fraction of the pay.
I am not saying that you personally are a hack but most customers are.
And yes, several techs are hacks too but not as many and they do enough QC's to fix most of them.

 

[OHtechguy]

I completely understand your point about the hack jobs. My job involves just about every aspect of IT, and a good bit of time is spent on data and phone networks that were hack jobs that barely worked when they were put in, and then I have to figure out how they got it to work in the first place and fix it. That is reasonable on DirecTV's part to insist on a Professional Install, but I don't think it should be a requirement. I liken this to being required to take your vehicle to a dealership for service. I just can't see ever doing that when I'm capable of doing and I don't have to worry about some idiot with an impact wrench changing my oil lol.

I guess my big issue with this is that this is a LOT of hassle for a simple little upgrade. I won't be using an SWM dish or anything like that, most likely just a simple 3 LNB slimline dish in place of the current install. (I might need a 5LNB, I haven't really checked what is required where yet.) I want to couple that with an appropriate multiswitch to replace the current 3x4 at the dish and put a drop to an H24 upstairs. I just don't have the time to schedule someone to come out is all. I'd like HD now, not in 6-8 months when I can schedule a vacation day to be available and hope and pray that my install doesn't get canceled or delayed. They said they can do weekends too, but my weekends are crazy already lol.

Any advice other than waiting until sometime in late 2011?

Thanks again! (And sorry about the long posts... I tend to get a little too wordy)

 

[kjlued]

Honestly, calling it a simple little upgrade tells me that you really are not able to do it as you do not know what is involved.
I am not saying you are not smart enough, as a matter of fact, you might be smarter then me.
However, you are just not trained, don't have the right equipment, and really no idea what is involved at this point.
A proper HD upgrade in reality is just as much work an install.

That being said, I am sure you would get the cabling correct and have it all properly wired in, but you will never get the dish pointed correctly unless you have been trained to do so and have a proper meter (Usually around $400+).
You might be able to research how to properly dither the dish but you will never line it up with the meters in the box or a cheap analog meter like you could with a standard def dish.

As far as it being reasonable for DTV to require a professional instalation, absolutely it is if you expect them to give you a ka/ku dish and receiver for free.
Now, if you want to buy a dish and receiver which will cost you a couple hundred dollars off ebay and spend a couple hundred dollars on a meter then spend an entire day trying to figure out how to install it, then go for it. But I guarantee you that keeping an appointment with a qualified installer will take less time then doing it yourself even if he is late.

I am not trying to be mean, and I honestly get the fealing if anyone can figure it out, it may be you, but trust me, you are getting in to more then you are aware.

 

[Tech27]

I'm an installer currently for a Directv retailer and recently left working for a
Dtv HSP (home service provider). Basically the rule of thumb is if you are getting a new receiver then you mist sign the 2 yr upgrade contract same as if you go get a new cell phone ( with the exception of prepaid). As stated before they won't let you do a self install because they want a tech to come out and make sure that everything is right in the system to prevent problems with the system.

Since you are upgrading to hd you definately need a trained professional to do it. The slimline (hd) dishes have to be right on spot on the signal or you will have trouble out of your hd channels. Also if you are using a 3x4 multiswitch you will be getting a slimline 3 dish or a swm 3 which ever the installer is supposed to use per his work order. 3x4 switches are used with the 18" round dish. You would also notice two lines off the dish coming from a dual lnb to the 3x4 switch. If this is the case you are currently just using 101 satellite and will be adding 99 and 103 for hd.

Regardless even though it might be tough to schedule in, it is in your best interest as a customer to have an installer do the upgrade. "the only" way around it will be to "purchase" the leased receiver(s) and dish equipment and multiswitch if needed online and hope you can install it good enough to not have to much trouble out of it (I wouldn't do an hd dtv install without a good digital meter and proper tools and education to save my life and I do this for a living).

 

[Jimbo]

Unless you have a proper meter and the knowledge of how to point an HD dish, you could never do it anyways.
You might get the dish close, but you would never get it dead on.
There is a lot more to pointing an HD dish then standard definition dish.
Besides, it is free.

That being said, I wish they would do this with every install as I am tired of having to go back and fix customer hack jobs because it gets too technologically advanced for them.
Especially when they offer the install for free.
It takes twice as much work for a fraction of the pay.
I am not saying that you personally are a hack but most customers are.
And yes, several techs are hacks too but not as many and they do enough QC's to fix most of them.

Did you REALLY just post that ?

There are PLENTY of people that can do the correct HD set up and be spot on.

I do all my own work normally.
Last time I had a tech out top upgrade a recvr, for some reason they wouldn't just send this one out to me.
We got done with the swap and I asked him to check the dish while he was here, he said Sure, was very cool about it.
We went up to the dish and he put his meter on it and said, you don't need any adjustment, your as good as we get using his Birdog.

Were not all hacks just because we don't all work for the company.

Fwiw, I don't own a meter anymore.

 

[OHtechguy]

I'll be dropping the 3x4 multiswitch for this install (my understanding has always been that you needed something with 4 satellite inputs for the newer HD-capable dishes and HD receivers. Am I wrong in thinking this?) I would like HD locals via satellite as well (which may require the SL5 from what I've read). I can't really use an SWM, as that would be a pain from an installation and upgrade standpoint with my current setup (all legacy stuff that'll be here until it dies lol).

On the contract note, I understand that you have to sign a 2-year agreement. That doesn't bother me at all. I've been with DTV for over a decade now, and I don't plan on changing that anytime soon.

How long does it usually take you guys to do one of these installs? I really only need the dish installed if someone comes out, and I'd handle the rest of course.

I hope no one thinks that I am saying something bad about any of the installers out there. I just don't have much time available and don't feel like wasting an installer's time by having to reschedule 50 times because of issues at work. Maybe I could just tell them where the dish is at and have them replace it?

Thanks again everyone. I appreciate all of the input so far.

 

[kjlued]

Yeah, I just posted that, and still stand by it.
Your dish could be properly pointed, dunno.
You might have lucked in to having it right.
Tech could have been blowing smoke up your butt.

However, I do know that I would never have to go up to the dish to check as I would just have to look at the transponders through your TV at that point.

As a well experienced tech though, I would bet you any amount of money that you could not successfully keep repeating setting up a ka/ku dish first time every time without some knowledge of how to dither it and a proper meter.

 

[Jimbo]

OP, you CAN do the job yourself, but why would you want to have to buy the equipment when D* will supply the correct stuff free of charge ...
You'll need the Slimline dish of your choice, SWM or not, I prefer not personally, depends on your set up.

Anyways you need a DISH, a WB68 multiswitch IF you have more tuners than what the dish handles, again, depends on your set up.
If you go with a SWM, you'll also need to get a Power Inserter and a SWM splitter (again depending on your set up.)

If your doing the normal Slimline, you'll want 2 lines run to each location that you have a DVR.
There are a variety of Slimline? SWM set ups out there, some use 4 lines from the dish to the ground block others only need one line to the block.

To answer your question, Yes, you can do it yourself, it will cost you running down the parts and the money for them.

D* would like to send out an installer so that when they get everything up and running, they KNOW the Signal strength is right on and the system is all up and running properly.

 

[OHtechguy]

kjlued:
I know there's quite a bit involved in this install. I just use the term simple pretty loosely these days with some of the crap I've had to deal with in the past with my line of work.

Did you REALLY just post that ?

There are PLENTY of people that can do the correct HD set up and be spot on.

I do all my own work normally.
Last time I had a tech out top upgrade a recvr, for some reason they wouldn't just send this one out to me.
We got done with the swap and I asked him to check the dish while he was here, he said Sure, was very cool about it.
We went up to the dish and he put his meter on it and said, you don't need any adjustment, your as good as we get using his Birdog.

Were not all hacks just because we don't all work for the company.

Fwiw, I don't own a meter anymore.

This seems to be what I'm seeing quite a bit of when researching this upgrade. Some people are saying it's easy, just takes a while, and others are saying impossible. It sounds like a moderate install without a $400+ meter.

 

[kjlued]

Go for it then.
Maybe Jimbo will come help you since you are both in Ohio. lol

 

[OHtechguy]

OP, you CAN do the job yourself, but why would you want to have to buy the equipment when D* will supply the correct stuff free of charge ...
You'll need the Slimline dish of your choice, SWM or not, I prefer not personally, depends on your set up.

Anyways you need a DISH, a WB68 multiswitch IF you have more tuners than what the dish handles, again, depends on your set up.
If you go with a SWM, you'll also need to get a Power Inserter and a SWM splitter (again depending on your set up.)

If your doing the normal Slimline, you'll want 2 lines run to each location that you have a DVR.
There are a variety of Slimline? SWM set ups out there, some use 4 lines from the dish to the ground block others only need one line to the block.

To answer your question, Yes, you can do it yourself, it will cost you running down the parts and the money for them.

D* would like to send out an installer so that when they get everything up and running, they KNOW the Signal strength is right on and the system is all up and running properly.

I actually asked DTV if they could just ship the equipment to my house (and I offered to pay the shipping costs too). The entire setup is done for SD, and has been working for years. I don't want the SWM equipment because that is entirely unnecessary for adding a standard HD receiver. I've got 2 drops to each receiver now, so it's pointless IMO. (3 SD DVR's and 1 SD Receiver).

As stated above, my choice comes from scheduling issues primarily. I can pick a day when there isn't much going away and do it myself, or schedule a vacation day, hope that nothing happens at work, and hope that the installer is able to show up on time and with all of the required equipment. I'm a fan of sitting back and having someone else do it (especially for free), but that just doesn't work very well with my everyday life. And from what DirecTV was telling me, even if I do purchase the stuff out of pocket, they still won't activate it. Sounds like I may never end up with HD at this point lol.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[charper1]

I am a plain end user and have installed numerous (headed toward 70+) advanced HD units with MRV and Slim-line dishes with nothing more than the hardware, household tools used to mount the dish and a $15 compass. And DIY can be done.

This job is FAR from being impossible for even the average DIY'er.


All that being said; it comes down to them wanting someone "qualified" so in the event something goes wrong its not YOU that did the instal and they should have some SOP's in place to make sure what is supposed to be done during an install is ACTUALLY done. When a DIY'er does the work, they have no way to verify any SOP was followed; method or material.

 

[OHtechguy]

Go for it then.

I wish that were an option. I can't cost-justify spending all of that money on equipment to accomplish something like this.

I can handle the possibility of not being able to aim the newer dishes and admitting defeat, but admitting defeat because my hands are tied behind my back? That just sucks lol.

 

[kjlued]

Your choices on this matter are simple.
Buy a slimline dish.
If you have more then 4 tuners, buy a 6x8 multiswitch
buy a HD recvr

You can obtain all this for around $200 and do the install yourself.
As far as them activating it, if they give you a hassle then threaten to cancel.

Or call them up and schedule an appointment and have it done for free.
In many cases, this can be done within 24 hours of the call.

Keep in mind, any adult 18 or older can be there.
This includes a friend or neighbor.
If you feel the tech hacked the job then go back and fix it yourself.

Weather or not you are able to do it yourself is a moot point as you can not do it yourself and get the equipment for free.

 

[Jimbo]

Go for it then.
Maybe Jimbo will come help you since you are both in Ohio. lol

Hey, I'd be glad to head to the Columbus area to help out.

 

[OHtechguy]

Hey, I'd be glad to head to the Columbus area to help out.

At this rate, I'll probably just do without HD until I get some vacation time and works slows down a bit and someone can come out to do it. I don't have hours upon hours to argue with DirecTV over something that I really don't need anyway. (This wouldn't be so bad if HD was available OTA here so I could at least have some shows in HD.) I know that I probably sound like an idiot saying this, but it's a shame that I have to have a free installation lol.

Thanks again for the input everyone, and thanks for the offer Jimbo.

(Oh, and if someone hears of a way around this requirement while still getting free equipment, please let me know )

 

[kjlued]

Ways to do it for free
1) as mentioned above have somebody else be there for you and hope he does a good job.
If not, fix it yourself at your leisure.
2) run all the cabling yourself before the installer gets there (he will love you for it) then have somebody else be there for you. I would only do this if you have a fairly open sky a couple degrees to the to the left and to right of where dish currently is as not all HD dishes can go exactly where the SD dish is.
3) set a PM appointment and ask the installer if he can route you last. I will do this if it doesn't put me way out of my way on my route. You could even ask if he will be there after a certain time. If you do this, I would offer him some cash. Keep in mind, I am usually done with my day by 4 or 5pm so if you ask me to show up after 5pm you better be prepared to offer me some money to end my day 2-3 hours later as I am not an hourly employee ($50 will probably do it). Also, this time of year, I am less likely to be willing to do that as it gets dark sooner and is much colder at night but if you have to get it done, cash talks and BS walks. (I know this defeats the "free" purpose but it is fair and it is cheaper then buying the equipment).
4) Wait till daylight savings in the spring and schedule a 4-8 appointment. (this means you need to be there at 4 not you show up anywhere in that time frame).
If you can't be there at 4 and need the installer to show up a little later then refer back to #3

 

[Jimbo]

At this rate, I'll probably just do without HD until I get some vacation time and works slows down a bit and someone can come out to do it. I don't have hours upon hours to argue with DirecTV over something that I really don't need anyway. (This wouldn't be so bad if HD was available OTA here so I could at least have some shows in HD.) I know that I probably sound like an idiot saying this, but it's a shame that I have to have a free installation lol.

Thanks again for the input everyone, and thanks for the offer Jimbo.

(Oh, and if someone hears of a way around this requirement while still getting free equipment, please let me know )

Why can you not get HD OTA where your at ? You should be able to get the networks anyways.

 

[OHtechguy]

Ways to do it for free
1) as mentioned above have somebody else be there for you and hope he does a good job.
If not, fix it yourself at your leisure.
2) run all the cabling yourself before the installer gets there (he will love you for it) then have somebody else be there for you. I would only do this if you have a fairly open sky a couple degrees to the to the left and to right of where dish currently is as not all HD dishes can go exactly where the SD dish is.
3) set a PM appointment and ask the installer if he can route you last. I will do this if it doesn't put me way out of my way on my route. You could even ask if he will be there after a certain time. If you do this, I would offer him some cash. Keep in mind, I am usually done with my day by 4 or 5pm so if you ask me to show up after 5pm you better be prepared to offer me some money to end my day 2-3 hours later as I am not an hourly employee ($50 will probably do it). Also, this time of year, I am less likely to be willing to do that as it gets dark sooner and is much colder at night but if you have to get it done, cash talks and BS walks. (I know this defeats the "free" purpose but it is fair and it is cheaper then buying the equipment).
4) Wait till daylight savings in the spring and schedule a 4-8 appointment. (this means you need to be there at 4 not you show up anywhere in that time frame).
If you can't be there at 4 and need the installer to show up a little later then refer back to #3

#3 might be the best idea, considering that #2 is already done. If they'd ship the stuff to me, I'd mount everything and just let him do the dish. I've got a clear view of the entire Southern sky from where it is mounted now, and from several other possible mounting spots as well. I guess one of my other issues is that they make it seem like he will need to see every little bit of the setup. I don't feel like making access to all of the cable runs as they are ran through walls and what/not, and a multiswitch that's hidden behind a heavy piece of furniture. I've got all 3 DVRs setup and the SD receiver, as well as some other runs for future use (not connected to the multiswitches as I deemed it would be an unnecessary source of interference). Everything runs great with good signal strength on each box (of course that is a bit of a moot point).

Why can you not get HD OTA where your at ? You should be able to get the networks anyways.

I'm far enough from Columbus to qualify as being in the boonies. I don't get any OTA coverage (I even used one of those online antenna selectors, which showed absolutely no signal from a roof mounted or higher antenna), and I never had analog reception back when you could still get that. I can't even get cell coverage here. I have a Samsung Airave (Sprint) to provide cell service so that I can use my cellphone in the house and on most of the property.