Help EV avoid mistakes on a starter FTA system.

[EscapeVelocity]

Ive been reading but am a bit confused and still wet behind the ears. I am pretty knowledgable about OTA terrestrial systems and setup and pretty intricate details like coax loss at different frequencies and by differing wires, etc.

So Im looking to set up a FTA system, Ku band.

Id like HD in the future (but I hear its mostly on C band now). Furthermore, I like sports (especially college football). I saw where there is History and Biography channel available. RTN also floats my boat. Feeds of Fox, My TV, This TV, NBC, ABC, CBS etc welcome.

I was llooking into what satellites have the English language stuff that I like, but conflicting information is out there....so I dont even know what sats to point at.

So....

What reciever should I get? Something basic and classic like the Mercury2 or Coolsat something or other.....blind scanning.

What Dish and size should I get? Elliptical, round, 30" 33" 36" 39", how about keep it smallish like the Winegard 76?

Im at Charleston SC on the East Coast,

Latitude: 32.7763889
32° 46' 35" N
32 degrees, 46 minutes, 35 seconds North


Longitude: -79.9311111
79° 55' 52" W
79 degrees, 55 minutes, 52 seconds West

I have 2 TVs Id like to hook up, which are 42" HDTVs but Im OK with just getting SD for them.

Are motorized units for moving between sats a bad idea, difficult to set up, not accurate, etc?

Should I get 2 or 3 dishes to cover the basics? If so what size for which group of sats and how to split them to 2 recievers. Can you recommend an amplifier as well?

I probably didnt ask all the right questions, and your advice where that is concerned is appreciated.



Al

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Oh and what LNBs to get? And how many do I need?

Invacom?

 

[Inno]

Minimum dish size for reliable Ku would be 30" (larger is better). As far as receiver, there are a lot of good ones. I have a Pansat 3500SD and a Coolsat 5000 only because I got them cheap. They both do a very good job.
Motorized setups, when done correctly work very well and will help you get the best bang for your buck in a FTA system. There are other ways such as multiple dishes but if space/looks are important the motorized system is the way to go.
A lot of folks (myself included) start out with G10R (or G18 as it's now called) as there is a good variety of programming there. This will get your feet wet and get you some programming as well. Once you have tweaked one satellite (and patted yourself on the back) you'll be ready to move on to bigger and better things. It will also help you understand a lot of what you have been reading.

There is no one right answer to any of your questions as you have probably realized from your reading.
30" minimum dish
Standard LNB (linear, not circular)
Name brand receiver with blind scan (pansat, coolsat, fortec......the list goes on) essentially whatever fits your budget.
That will get you started.
As far as a motor, I'm not the best one to answer that.

Good luck!
Oh, and check out SatelliteGuys.US - TheList . It is pretty up to date and gives you a good indication of what's up there.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Looking at that list....

Galaxy 18 looks great!

AMC21 looks great too, lots of PBS.

Can I point one dish at both of those at the same time?

 

[EscapeVelocity]

What do I gain by say going up from the Winegard 76 to a 36" dish?

Thanks for your help.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

I should also mention that Im into Astronomy and have experience polar aligning telescopes.

 

[DiscoLoveGrapes]

A 36" is going to give you a little better chance at some of the weaker signals, and will help out during rain or heavy clouds. For example, the RTNs are notorious for being low and I know that I lose PBS when it starts raining with my 31" dish.

I also recommend a motor if it fits your budget. You can use one dish to get different satellite -- but be sure you've got a good clear view of the southern sky. College ball shows up all over up there

One more suggestion: go get started by looking for a used box on Ebay or around here. You may have to reset the firmware to factory standards, but you may save a few pennies. Otherwise, check out the sponsors to see if they're running deals.

 

[Tron]

The Visionsat IV-200 is a nice blind-scanning standard definition receiver with PVR capability (by adding a USB hard drive). It can even record HD channels, although it can't display them (you need to play the recording back on a PC)... You might be able to find an inexpensive Visionsat on EBay...

 

[Inno]

Looking at that list....

Galaxy 18 looks great!

AMC21 looks great too, lots of PBS.

Can I point one dish at both of those at the same time?

No, they are too close. There are some claims of 2° spacing but there are physical limitations of LNBs. Essentially you can pick up multiple satellites with one dish and multiple LNBs but that's not really a beginner's project and if the satellites are too close together (anything less than 6°) the LNBs can not physically be put close enough together to work. There are a few good threads on the topic.
A lot of folks have set up a dish on G18 and added an extra LNB for 129° to get Whitesprings TV. This works out well because the satellites are 6° apart.

 

[freezy]

instead of having a confusing array of LNBs and switches you should also get a positioning motor. That way you can get all of those satellites. If you are familiar with motorized telescopes this is a piece of cake to set up. You just need to set up true South and elevation to pick up your Clarkes Belt.

You'll want HD as many sports feeds are only available in HD.
Problem being there are a few different modes that are used and not many boxes that can receive all or most of them.
4.2.0 is normal DVB-S, 4.2.2 DVB-S2 are harder to find, mpeg4 is pretty common, HD 8skp is rare.


I have a coolsat 6100 which has a fair blindscan and good motor control. Then I have an Azbox Elite HD for its multiple modes it can receive natively. Folks say it has good motor control but I haven't seen that at all. No blindscan either

You need a good blind scanner too. Unless you sit a wait for somebody to tell you where a new feed is so you can plug in the freq/polarity/symbol rate into your non-scanning box. A good scanning box can find them for you, provided you are pointed at a satellite that has some feeds going at that time. That's where your motor gets real handy. If nothing is going on someplace, move.
So, part of this hobby is like panning for gold.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Thanks again.

FWIU, the new HD boxes are still in flux with no clear winners yet.

Hey freezy, that is an interesting looking antenna. How well does it work?

 

[EscapeVelocity]

So,

Im going to try a motorized mount

and

at least a 30" dish, but 36" is better.

Question: Does the 36" dish have a tighter beamwidth than a smaller 30" dish? (I dont know if that is the appropriate term) Thus it would make pointing necessarily more precise and difficult.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Which recievers are particularly good with motorized mounts?

 

[meinename]

Question: Does the 36" dish have a tighter beamwidth than a smaller 30" dish? (I dont know if that is the appropriate term) Thus it would make pointing necessarily more precise and difficult.

Not enough that you are going to care.

A 30" dish will have a beam-width around 2.4 degrees. You'll have bleed-over from adjacent satellites. Has the effect of killing your signal.
A 36" dish will have a beam-width around 2 degrees. If you are dead on you shouldn't have bleed-over.

My first dish to try Ku on was a 8.5 Footer. Ku Beam-width of 0.69 degrees. Would not recommend that to anyone new to satellite-dish-pointing. Exercise in frustration. :rant:


I recommend a Coolsat 5000 or 6000 for a reliable motor experience.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Im thinking Winegard 2076 (or maybe a 36") Who makes a good 36" dish?

Invacom LNB Is it worth it to get an Invacom?

Motor Whats a good motor? SG2100?

Reciever Whats a good reciever? HD, good motor control, good blind scanning

 

[gillham]

Im thinking Winegard 2076 (or maybe a 36") Who makes a good 36" dish?

Get the SatelliteAV 36" eBay special. About $95 shipped and is a solid dish with LNBF support arms which are very nice to have if you get an Invacom.

Invacom LNB Is it worth it to get an Invacom?

Absolutely, in my opinion. Sure it costs a few bucks more than a cheap linear, but you're hopefully buying it once and using it for several years. Having circular is great for NASA and the occasional freebie from Dish. Basically the Invacom gives you the ability to scan more satellites, for only a bit more cash. You don't have to do things like strap a circular to the side and adjust the location of all the circular sats etc. Mine is a rock solid LNBF and frankly well worth it.

Motor Whats a good motor? SG2100?

No! The originals were solid, the ones you find on the market today are pretty much all clones and have plenty of issues. Search the forum and you'll read about USALS flat out not working right and the manufacturer saying it is "user error" and shipping the motor back.

Look at Sadoun's DG280 or DG380. I would suggest the DG380 myself. It is heavier built, has auto slack adjust and greater precision.. I've setup a DG280 for my brother and it is a good motor as well, but the next one will be a DG380. (for me!)

Reciever Whats a good reciever? HD, good motor control, good blind scanning

My opinion is you really want two if you want HD. One being a simple, basic blindscan unit that works well. I would suggest a Coolsat 6000 because they are cheap and work really well. The Coolsat 5000 is about the same guts, just a different case. Also the Fortec Mercury II or Dynamic is a great blindscanner as well. I have both and frankly prefer the Coolsat 6000, but I like some of the additional blindscan options on the Fortec.

For HD I would only consider the Azbox Elite (or Premium if it is orderable) at this point. While it doesn't have DVB-S2/8PSK blindscan like some other units, in fact is has NO blindscan at all, it does have 4:2:2 playback. Only the QualiTV supported 4:2:2 and then only on DVB-S/QPSK. The Azbox is much more flexible. Read the review thread, but it sounds like it will play just about anything, with only a few limitations dependent on the uplinker's encoder. At some point, hopefully in the near future, the Azbox should have blindscan support and should be the only receiver you really need.

I recommend two receivers because some of the newer HD units are a little buggy and have numerous quirks. Relying on them as your only receiver can be a challenge. Having a cheap Coolsat 6000 ($30 used around here) to do DVB-S/QPSK blindscanning, switching, dish moving, is a reliable way to operate. I use a Coolsat 6000 with a Coolsat 8100HD slaved off it and frankly couldn't function without my beloved 6000.

The 6000 will find QPSK transponders and you can add them manually to your HD box to scan the HD channels the 6000 can't play.

 

[freezy]

Thanks again.

FWIU, the new HD boxes are still in flux with no clear winners yet.

Hey freezy, that is an interesting looking antenna. How well does it work?

indoors I got 85% signal on a 6' long rg59 cable at a distance of 38 miles to the tower. outdoors on 200' of a non-amplified 3way split rg56 I got nothing. Note: on a combo bowtie/reflector grid antenna you must isolate all parts from earth ground or it doesn't work. In your hand it works pretty good.

I made it in my garage out of aluminum flashing hoping I could give it to this retired lady that helps out with our boy scout troop.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Ill look for a coolsat 6000 or 5000, and/or a Fortec Mercury II or Dynamic....to start off with.

Thanks, again!

 

[EscapeVelocity]

I was looking on Sadoun, and they have bundles with Winegard 76 inch dishes, Invacom LNBs, and DG280 motors, but with Fortec Star Platinum recievers. Are those receivers as good as the Mercury II or Dynamic? Can I upgrade to the 380 motor drive?

 

[meinename]

I was looking on Sadoun, and they have bundles with Winegard 76 inch dishes, Invacom LNBs, and DG280 motors, but with Fortec Star Platinum recievers. Are those receivers as good as the Mercury II or Dynamic? Can I upgrade to the 380 motor drive?

Mercury II, Dynamic, Platinum
Same guts, different outside

Almost the case with the Coolsat 5000 and 6000.
Similar guts, different case
(6000 has more RAM for Guide information, but we don't get that much here in NA)