How bad is it going to get?

[rad]

To me you need to start hurting D* with the money. It is the only voice that they will hear.

Sean, that's the same logic I used when I left E*. Yep, their PQ is better but their hardware s*cks. What is PQ is you can't watch shows because you're busy rebooting the box, running switch checks or your DVR totally missed recording a show you wanted or you got a ZLR. IMHO, all the services have issues and there is no perfect one out there. So you need to look at what's important to you and based your decision on that. In miy case I'll take the lower PQ for something that works just about 100% of the time.

 

[Sean Mota]

Sean, that's the same logic I used when I left E*. Yep, their PQ is better but their hardware s*cks. What is PQ is you can't watch shows because you're busy rebooting the box, running switch checks or your DVR totally missed recording a show you wanted or you got a ZLR. IMHO, all the services have issues and there is no perfect one out there. So you need to look at what's important to you and based your decision on that. In miy case I'll take the lower PQ for something that works just about 100% of the time.

I think you need to look hard on the Dish Network Hardware. I had the 6000u which was very bad in terms of the software it used yet it is a very stable box. I have a 942 now which I will put head to head with directivo. Never had a problem with the 942 very stable box. On the cable side the 8300 is also very stable and quite good. All these boxes are very stable and not the headache that you are describing. The provider that provides the best PQ will get my money and right now D* is not doing it at all for me on the HD channels. This is why I decided to vote with my pocket although I heavily invested in D* equipment. If in the future D* proves to fix the PQ problem with the HD channels (which I doubt), I will transfer my money back to them. In the meantime, my money is going to Cable and Dish Network. If Fios ever comes to my neighborhood, I will also consider them and try them to see if the PQ is the same or equal or better to Dish Network/Cable. I have no loyalty to any provider. The loyalty lies with whom provides the best PQ for my three HDTVs whomever does will get my money and support. I have quite a few people who had asked me about PQ on different providers and I give them my experience with DirecTv, Dish Network and Cable. In the past few months, I had about 10 people that decided not to sign up with DirecTv because of the PQ problems and they decided to order digital cable or Dish Network. Until D* starts doing a better job on the PQ department of their HD channels, they will be at the end of the line in my recommendations.

 

[rad]

I think you need to look hard on the Dish Network Hardware. I had the 6000u which was very bad in terms of the software it used yet it is a very stable box.

Sean, I had a 6000 with the 8VSB and 8PSK modules and while it was stable compared to other E* STB's it wasn't as good as the D* E86 that I had prior to it. I replace the 6K with an 811 when it came out and it was a POS, and looking as some of the post that go on still there are folks that still have issues with it, While you like your 942 I wonder what your opinion would be of E* hardware if you had a 921. The 622 looks like it's one of E*'s better new releases based on the current poll that's running. But then you look at the bug report and see folks reporting simple things like timers not firing and needed to reboot the box to get it to record. I've had my D* HR10-250 since May of 2004 and only once have I needed to do a reboot and clear to fix a problem with it. I also have an H20 since November, it's needed to be booted twice. The R15 I will say is not one of D*'s better efforts to date but it sounds like the latest software that's starting to roll out fixes my major concerns with the box.

I've tried Comcast and their PQ is the best of all the providers available but the Motorola STB's that they use (I've had a 6412 phase II and II) and the 3412 are the weak link in that provider. Those boxes have a tendency to 'freeze' up during the day where they don't accept any commands. It will be interesting to see how the port of the Tivo code to the Motorola platform of the Tivo series 3 boxes with cable cards turn out, that might make cable the preferred vendor of choice then.

As I said in my prior response, you want PQ so go for whatever make you happy. I want stability and reliability and in my case D* currently is the best that I can get at this time. Go forth and be happy with cable and E*.

 

[mrmageaux]

Sean, I don't think anyone can argue with your comments, the problem is most of us are tied to D* for one reason or another. For me it's the NFLST. While I get to watch all my home team games, I love being able to watch the games I want.

What do people like me do? If we leave D* we deprive ourselves of something we love. To me, that's the price you pay sometimes.

 

[Brewer4]

WRONG. I clearly stated that the material was from SHOHD. Anyone with any knowledge of HD would know that 7.3 gig for an HD movie of 2.25 hours is farrrrrrrr tooooooo small and should require at a minimum 2 DL DVD's . Unless of course there is this uneducated group of HD viewers that have only had D* as a provider. Im starting to think that may be the case.

You know I used to think you were just passionate about HD and quality, but now I am convinced you are just a d**k. Didnt want to make it personal but I think you crossed the line.

How do I ignore an indvidual poster again? Please let someone other than Vurbano answer this. Thanks.

 

[Brewer4]

Sean, I don't think anyone can argue with your comments, the problem is most of us are tied to D* for one reason or another. For me it's the NFLST. While I get to watch all my home team games, I love being able to watch the games I want.

What do people like me do? If we leave D* we deprive ourselves of something we love. To me, that's the price you pay sometimes.

Yep. For my family its Tivo.

 

[JustBob]

...because no matter how much bandwith they have, they will never fix the PQ problem ...

I'm not sure how you can say that. Have they increased their bandwidth lately, except for the MPEG4 HD locals? I don't see how they can improve PQ until they move the national HD channels to MPEG4. They continue to cram more channels into the same MPEG2 bandwidth. Each channel is going to keep getting less and less bandwidth and look worse and worse.

It's not that I'm defending DirecTV. I grow tired of the lack of information and the promise dates that usually slip, and the less than spectacular HD-Lite. It's just that in this case, I don't see what DirecTV can do in the short term. They have a long term plan that includes new satellites. Hopefully they can come through and get to where people want them to be. That won't be until next year sometime.

-JustBob

 

[Brewer4]

I'm not sure how you can say that. Have they increased their bandwidth lately, except for the MPEG4 HD locals? I don't see how they can improve PQ until they move the national HD channels to MPEG4. They continue to cram more channels into the same MPEG2 bandwidth. Each channel is going to keep getting less and less bandwidth and look worse and worse.

It's not that I'm defending DirecTV. I grow tired of the lack of information and the promise dates that usually slip, and the less than spectacular HD-Lite. It's just that in this case, I don't see what DirecTV can do in the short term. They have a long term plan that includes new satellites. Hopefully they can come through and get to where people want them to be. That won't be until next year sometime.

-JustBob

Yep. They are spending billions so they believe in something. Market forces will help drive things as well. If folks really do have a choice and D* is the lowest quality that may help sway folks to one service to another.

 

[Sean Mota]

I'm not sure how you can say that. Have they increased their bandwidth lately, except for the MPEG4 HD locals? I don't see how they can improve PQ until they move the national HD channels to MPEG4. They continue to cram more channels into the same MPEG2 bandwidth. Each channel is going to keep getting less and less bandwidth and look worse and worse.

It's not that I'm defending DirecTV. I grow tired of the lack of information and the promise dates that usually slip, and the less than spectacular HD-Lite. It's just that in this case, I don't see what DirecTV can do in the short term. They have a long term plan that includes new satellites. Hopefully they can come through and get to where people want them to be. That won't be until next year sometime.

-JustBob

My whole premise is based on the history of how DirecTv handles their hd channels. The continue to cram more channels without regard of bandwith; they hide the downresize of HD channels. They even took away the functionality that Tivo had to see whether or not the channels were downresized or not. It is based on their very bad historical practice and they continually say there is nothing wrong with the channels. Will this be changed in a year, 2 years, 5 years or 10 years? Who knows for certain? No one. We can all assume that it will happen but it is not a given. If and when DirecTv decides to fix the PQ problem, I have left my door open for them to WOW me and convince me that I was wrong. But only if and when this happens before this it is all speculation on anyone's part.

 

[Brewer4]

My whole premise is based on the history of how DirecTv handles their hd channels. The continue to cram more channels without regard of bandwith; they hide the downresize of HD channels. They even took away the functionality that Tivo had to see whether or not the channels were downresized or not. It is based on their very bad historical practice and they continually say there is nothing wrong with the channels. Will this be changed in a year, 2 years, 5 years or 10 years? Who knows for certain? No one. We can all assume that it will happen but it is not a given. If and when DirecTv decides to fix the PQ problem, I have left my door open for them to WOW me and convince me that I was wrong. But only if and when this happens before this it is all speculation on anyone's part.

I definately see your side. For me personally I give them end of 2007 for something to change. Hopefully my local Comcast will be caught up by then and FIOS will be an alternative. Then I will truely feel like I can go with one provider versus another with PQ the main reason. Until then, our house has decided Tivo and other channel mixes, sunk hardware costs, pricing, etc. has given the nod to D*. Its not by a lot but the nod is to D* still.

 

[FlyingJ]

As long as it offers NFL ST and ESPN and ESPN2 look great and I still receive my locals OTA I am pretty satisfied. The other channels, like HBO, Showtime, heck the HD DVD players pretty much will rule them out for me. OK so my other HD channels, ummm what are they again, HD net Movies, mute also with HD DVD, Discovery, TNT (lol) can do with out them. Once again, I have to say that in some places, unless Columbus, Ohio is the only one, the PQ on the cable systems just is no better. I was watching ESPN on my buddies dish setup, no better. So exactly what is everone watching where D*s pq is so bad, anything important?

 

[Sean Mota]

So exactly what is everone watching where D*s pq is so bad, anything important?

Not to continue beating a dead horse but that is not the point of the argument. You maybe a sport oriented guy but there are others like me who care very little about any sports (except baseball). I like variety in my TV and if a provider is providing Discovery HD Theater or HDnet movies, I will like to see them in full resolution and at decent bitrates compatiable to the competition. I feel that if we are paying for the channel, DirecTv should give us the full resolution and decent bitrates compatible to what others are doing, not less. So in a nutshell there should not be an inequality of the PQ in HD channels. This is not a a-la carte model where I can pick and choose the channels; we pay for all the channels and we should get decent PQ on them (again compatible to what the competition offer).

 

[FlyingJ]

I see your point, just see it differently. I guess I am paying for all of the channels in my Total Choice whatever it is called but that is just because they are part of what I am looking to view so I tend to ignore that they are there. So the question is, if not for the NFL ST why have you been spending your money on D* when Dish has offered what you have wanted the whole time in the PQ you desire?

 

[vurbano]

I see your point, just see it differently. I guess I am paying for all of the channels in my Total Choice whatever it is called but that is just because they are part of what I am looking to view so I tend to ignore that they are there. So the question is, if not for the NFL ST why have you been spending your money on D* when Dish has offered what you have wanted the whole time in the PQ you desire?

I think Sean did go back to Dish

 

[FlyingJ]

Yes, I read that, was just wondering what took him so long?

 

[cso356]

I like my tv. It is big and shiny. The man put a plate on my roof and the picture is not too fuzzy.

 

[markd]

I'm still hoping when D* gets those other two sats up next year they increase the bandwidth and give us decent PQ. Like others, whoever has the best PQ will get my money. TWC is doing a better job right now so I've cancel D* and gone with TWC for the time being.

 

[Sean Mota]

Yes, I read that, was just wondering what took him so long?

I kept waiting for things to improve (on DirecTv) and for Dish to offer a decent upgrade package to 942 and 6000u owners. Now that I know more about that, I can move to dish. I am still with DirecTv because I am still getting the dish installation done. My cable was installed just two weeks ago and Dish is coming to install the 622 and 211 (upgrade offer). After that I have to do one more installation to connect the other receivers to the dish account. After that I will be disconnecting DirecTv.

 

[bhelms]

I like my tv. It is big and shiny. The man put a plate on my roof and the picture is not too fuzzy.

Welcome cso356!
It's all in the eyes of the beholder. Buy what suits you. If you're not getting what you're paying for, move on as soon as you can. But HD should not in any way be "fuzzy"...

You didn't say whether you're a HD sub. or not, but that's what drives these particular threads. The PQ is definitely NOT what it could/should be, especially from sat. and especially from D*. Compare the PQ of OTA HD signals to what's beamed-down. If you can't see a difference in that simple experiment - well - more power to you. But the point that's being (once again!) driven home here is that there are quite a few of us, numbers aside, who CAN tell the difference. We're paying for something we're not receiving and it's getting worse. In spite of the technological improvements and the increased sat. capacity and especially the ever-increasing sub. fees, the situation is moving in the wrong direction, and that's what's so frustrating!

Right now we HD viewers comprise only about 15% of TV households (maybe a higher percentage of the sat subs.) so we're still having a problem casting our votes in any significant numbers with our hard-earned money. But as HD penetration increases and the viewers eventually realize they're not getting true HD from some sources, then competition might help drive some drastic improvements. Until then, there's not much we can do except to complain, hopefully to someone who is listening and can/will make a decision to improve the situation...!

Sorry for the rant, but I'm equally frustrated. Like others here, I hope the true HD aficionados will someday have a chance to announce the "rebirth" of HD from the sat. providers...

 

[markd]

I just got of the phone canceling my D* sub.

Anyways the CS Rep asked me why I was canceling. Of course I told her it was because of the poor PQ of their channels, mainly the HD channels. She asked if she could send a tech out to check my system because this was the first she heard of it. I explained to her it was because there was not enough bandwidth and hopefully when they launch the next two sats next year that the PQ will return and I might also. She informed me they just launched two sats and all the HD channels have been moved to them so there was no bandwidth problem. I told her it was just the HD LIL but she insisted it was all the HD channels. I really didn't want to debate her so I told her I had cable too and one had to go. Right now cable had more HD channels and better PQ.