Inexpensive tuner for PBS & RTV?

[Dee_Ann]

Hi!

Ok, my folks have a birthday coming up soon and I want to do something nice for them. They are both big PBS fans but after local TV went digital they can no longer receive it anymore. My dad put up an enormous antenna about 30 feet up with a motor to turn it but the PBS antenna is just too far away to get here.

My dad asked me way over a year ago to help him put up a dish so they can get it.

They both want PBS of course and I know they will want RTV, my mom loves McMillan & Wife and Banacheck and I'm sure a few others she would enjoy. And I'm sure there are a LOT of shows on there that Dad would like too.

I'm pretty confident that I can figure out what kind of dish, lnb and motor to get, I've done a LOT of reading : here and I think I have those basics down.

I think that it would be good to get a twin output lnb so they can have two tuners where Mom can watch her stuff and Dad can watch his stuff. As it is now he complains that Mom controls the TV around the clock.

So really the big mystery to me is, what would be a decent, low cost tuner that will tune in the PBS stations? And of course also tune in RTV, History & BIO.

I understand that the signal for PBS is very different from the typical signals of most other channels. I have a coolsat 6000 and it totally does not at all recognize any of the PBS channels. My pc tuner does. I recently replaced the tuner card in it with a newer one that gets those oddball PBS channels like OETA. I bought it because I thought it would get me some different HD RTV channels. I guess I was wrong but oh well, I gained a few new PBS channels.

But they don't want a PC, just little set top tuners.
One of them will need to connect to a small flat screen, it's pretty new and has several kinds of connectors on it. It's nothing fancy, just a plain old flat screen.

On the other TV they would put one on it would be just an old timey TV, the big, fat heavy kind.

The tuner doesn't need to have any fancy features, doesn't need blind scan, doesn't need fancy sound, just the basics, inexpensive and PBS capable.
I have no idea where to start, what to look for, where to look or what they cost.
I'm open to suggestions..

Thank you!

 

[Mikhel]

The cheapest way is using a DVB tuner for the PC, either PCI (internal) or USB (external), other than that that don't require a PC, i think the cheapest would be a Sathawk/Solomend/OpenBox (less than $200 dlls), or a used DVB-S2 receiver from ebay/craigslists or... i don't know =P.

The Sathawk/Solomend/OpenBox can get the OETA channels, and will get History, Biography and the RTV channels.

A normal FTA receiver that only does DVB-S can get RTV, History, Biography but not the OETA channels (though at 125ºW Ku there are more PBS channels that any FTA receiver can get, but some of those have dolby audio and require either a HomeTeather or a SonicVoom Headphones, available at Ebay for like 20 dlls).

Considering that there are really cheap functional FTA receivers at ebay (usually old, but hey, if it works, it's fine for me =P), like the Pansats 2500a, 2700a, Fortecs, Coolsats.

By the way, i had the same issue with digital channels over the air, and ended up buying a booster for my antenna (i think it is like 45db gain) and now it works really fine over at a friend's house (i gave her the antenna and the booster, because i use a lot more my FTA receivers than OTA).

P.S.
Like you said, a LNB with dual outputs is the way to go, but to get all those channels will require either an antenna for each sat (and the use of 4x1 DiSEqC's) or a couple of motorized offset antennas (because with one antenna if your dad wants to watch let's say something from the History Channel, and your mom wants to watch something at RTV/TuffTV, they'll have to choose which sat to tune).

=)

 

[Wescopc]

I think that it would be good to get a twin output lnb so they can have two tuners where Mom can watch her stuff and Dad can watch his stuff. As it is now he complains that Mom controls the TV around the clock.

Dee_Ann how will the dual feed LNB help when RTV and PBS are on different satellites? Seems it would only work when your folks want to watch programing on only one satellite.
Bob

PS Sorry looks like Mikhel already asked this question

 

[Dee_Ann]

Dee_Ann how will the dual feed LNB help when RTV and PBS are on different satellites? Seems it would only work when your folks want to watch programing on only one satellite.
Bob

PS Sorry looks like Mikhel already asked this question

Um... Oh...... Darn.... Ok, so much for that theory...


Oh and to to clarify a little, getting the OETA channels isn't a need for my folks.
As long as they can get they regulars like World, Montana, HD east and west, and Create. I think they are on the 125 satellite. I also see there is a message about some new PBS channels coming to the 103 satellite? Getting those would be a plus but not important. I think. Well as long as the ones on 125 stay as they are.

And again, it just needs to be a simple set top tuner, *not* a pc tuner.

Thanks!

 

[Wescopc]

The "103W" satellite PBS stations are C band - Large dish. But same programing as you get on 125W KU. Remember the PBS feeds (Not Montana) are AC3 sound. Also the HD channels require a more expensive receiver.
Bob

 

[Dee_Ann]

The "103W" satellite PBS stations are C band - Large dish. But same programing as you get on 125W KU. Remember the PBS feeds (Not Montana) are AC3 sound. Also the HD channels require a more expensive receiver.
Bob

Oh, ok I wasn't clear on the 103 PBS channels, I am now. Thank you!


AC3. Won't their new flat screen play that?

Getting the HD channels, yes, they would want those too. I think most of what shows on the HD channels also airs on World but of course it's not in HD. But the more channels they can get on it the better the choices they have for time shifting.
Besides, PBS HD just looks soooooo darn good! So paying a few more $ for that is worth it, I think.

The OETA channel, that's something even more different than the HD and I'll bet a tuner that gets ALL of the PBS channels would really cost a bunch.

Thanks!

 

[Mikhel]

AC3. Won't their new flat screen play that?

For that you'll have to check if their flat screen has inputs for coaxial audio or SPDIF, if not, then chances are it won't play it.

But as i said earlier, you can get them a pair of SonicVoom Headphones, hook them up to the FTA receiver and hook the audio out to any home stereo.

Getting the HD channels, yes, they would want those too. I think most of what shows on the HD channels also airs on World but of course it's not in HD. But the more channels they can get on it the better the choices they have for time shifting.
Besides, PBS HD just looks soooooo darn good! So paying a few more $ for that is worth it, I think.

You can look for a cheap HD FTA receiver (Coolsat has the 8000 and the 8100 models), most of them can also decode AC3 internally so you won't need the sonicvoom nor any other thing =).

The OETA channel, that's something even more different than the HD and I'll bet a tuner that gets ALL of the PBS channels would really cost a bunch.

Well... yeah, the Solomend/OpenBox S9 DVB-S2 receiver ranges from 170 to 200+ dlls (depending on where you buy it), or even more pricey, but for an easy to use receiver its very well worth it's price.

Thanks!

You're welcome Dee_Ann =)

 

[Anole]

no motor:

For yourself, I can see a motor on your Ku dish.
For your folks, I'd suggest not getting in bed with that complication.
There is initial installation, alignment, and the fact you'd probably need TWO of 'em!
Then, there's servicing for the folks, too.
"Dee Ann, come tune up my dish, I can't get ____ on the eastern end of the arc and your Dad can!" -

Let's get back to your dual output LNB idea, and two or three dishes (at most).
This post in the Switches Simplified FAQ can handle up to 8 LNBs and feed up to 4 receivers.
Might look complicated at first, but you build it a little at a time, starting from the left side, adding more parts as you need 'em.

Another advantage is instant access to any chosen satellite.
No motor delay waiting for the dish to turn.
Debugging is relatively easy, too.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I draw a line between the dish configuration and the receivers:

Some AZbox model or the Sathawk are first choice if you demand HD.
Then, maybe a Coolsat 8000/8100 or Pansat 9200 - only if you find a deal on 'em used!
Don't think there are ANY OTHER HD receivers I'd contemplate...

If you could skip HD, then any Coolsat 5000/6000, Mercury II, Pansat 2xxx/3xxx, or Traxis 3500 would do, and should be under $40 used.

The decoding of AC3 audio was covered by previous posters.

 

[chapelrun]

Maybe some suggestion

Dee, I got a SonicView-HD8000 off of Craigslist for $100 and it gets PBS from 125W very well.

I agree with the little green lizard that 2 or 3 fixed KU dishes might be better and require less service calls by you. With take said - - - I do have my SV-HD8000 running a DG380 motor with a PrimeStar 75e dish. But it took me a bit of time to track the arc correctly. Another thing to think about here is when they change the channel from PBS on 125W to RTV on 83W there will be a time delay while the dish turns - - - they would have to get used to that. With fixed dishes the channel changes almost instantly.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/205656-upgraded-my-motorized-setup.html

Let's say you start with 2 fixed dishes - - - one on 125W and one on 83W with a receiver like the SV-HD8000 then if they like that you could add one or two more over time. (Just a thought).

Oh, another thing about the AC3 on 125W - - - the SV-HD8000 will decode that and I recommend if you go this direction use an HDMI cable to connect to their TV.

Best of success!

 

[Anole]

read my lips: no motors!

Before I get any negative feedback on the multiple dish proposal, take a look at this thread:
DTV Slimline w/SatAv SL2 LNBF on SG-2100 motor
... and ignore the motor part! -

Phlatwound has a nice list of signal levels for numerous transponders across the arc.
The dish IS a little small, so that's something to consider, but . . .
- it's a common & readily available dish to scrounge
- the LNBF he used has dual outputs (hint) -
- the LNBF mounts on the arm, oh so easily!
- with no motor, ignore all his dish-mount modifications! - :up

Point being, for the stronger signals Mom & Pop want, maybe a couple of these dishes could get you started(?)
Only use larger dishes on weaker satellites.

--------------------------------------------------

back to receivers:

I purposely made my list of suggested receivers confrontational to get input about other choices.
We have a review on the Sonicview 8000.
It might be usable, if found used for cheap. - :up
Sonicview SV-HD8000

Chapelrun made a great point on the HDMI cable bringing sound from an HD receiver to the HD TV set. - :up
If you don't find such cables locally for a good price ( ), we got places to recommend! -

 

[Anole]

and for multiswitches:

Pendragon documented a readily available multiswitch in this thread:
Naughty Mods II: 4x8 Switch with All 18V outputs
I suggest reading it for two points:
- his recommendation of the switch as being a hearty device
- all comments about it being inexpensive - :up

Ignore all the "mod" part - you don't need any modifications; it works fine as-is!
Yea, with 8 outputs, it's overkill, but it's hard to find a 4x4 for less money.

AND, I strongly prefer that it's self-powered!
That'll help your debugging, IMO. - :up

Also, with four inputs, you can hook two dual-output LNBs to it to get started, without any extra switches. :up
(see simple picture at the bottom of this post in the Switches Simplified FAQ)

 

[delta_charlie]

---cut---

Chapelrun made a great point on the HDMI cable bringing sound from an HD receiver to the HD TV set. - :up
If you don't find such cables locally for a good price ( ), we got places to recommend! -

Hi Dee_Ann and the group, I just wanted to mention that my Azbox Elite gets everything on 125 west and plays the AC3 audio just fine direct to the HD TV using HDMI. Just be sure to use a little bigger dish for the S2 stuff - needs more signal for a solid lock.

I would second the no motor two fixed dish approach for the intend use. Get at least a 90 CM for 125 and just about any FTA 76 CM or bigger should do it for 83 west.

Good luck with the project, DC

 

[Larry1]

My dad put up an enormous antenna about 30 feet up with a motor to turn it but the PBS antenna is just too far away to get here.

You might want to check the TVFOOL web site to see if adding a Pre-Amplifier will help before ruling out the TV antenna.

 

[Blindowl1234]

Dee, If you can get the Solomend unit...it's a pretty decent unit. I got one from Sadoun back when they first came out with all the bugs haha back in like February. I do get all the PBS on 125w and the audio passes thru on my newer tv. The newer tv has an HDMI input though. I use a 36" dish the 30" wouldn't cut it for me. NOTE: The Solomend uses either the Rca type line outputs or HDMI...No coax fitting to hook to the back of an older tv set....Blind

 

[ken2400]

Good point.
So there are two main types of UHF (Digital) antenna's. The old style Yagi and the bow tie ones. The Bow ties seem to be more popular. I would at least try a bow tie with 8 ties. 4 in a row next to 4 in a row. If the bow ties don't work out try a Yagi.

Good luck

Which pre amp do you like Larry1?
TV Antennas & Supplies  - Pre-Amplifiers - Shop at SolidSignal.com - Page 1

You might want to check the TVFOOL web site to see if adding a Pre-Amplifier will help before ruling out the TV antenna.

 

[Larry1]

Which pre amp do you like Larry1?

I like the Channel Master CM7777, but my situation may be different from others. I am in the deep fringe area and use an antennas direct 91XG with a CM7777 pre-amplifer, then inside the house a CM3414 to split the signal. My antenna is on a 30 ft tower, but should be higher.
Remember, what is good for one installation may be bad for another, so check the TVFOOL web site to see what is good for you. The different amplifiers very greatly. Some have medium amplification, others great overload capabilities. Some are very low noise and others.... well so noisy why bother with them.

 

[Mikhel]

I like the Channel Master CM7777, but my situation may be different from others. I am in the deep fringe area and use an antennas direct 91XG with a CM7777 pre-amplifer, then inside the house a CM3414 to split the signal. My antenna is on a 30 ft tower, but should be higher.
Remember, what is good for one installation may be bad for another, so check the TVFOOL web site to see what is good for you. The different amplifiers very greatly. Some have medium amplification, others great overload capabilities. Some are very low noise and others.... well so noisy why bother with them.

How much distance is there from where you are to the nearest and the most distant tv station Larry? it migh Dee_Ann a good idea on whether to try for the OTA option before planning on a receiver and antenna for PBS @ 125°W (since those channels are the ones that need a different receiver other than any other plain FTA DVB-S receiver).

=)

 

[Dee_Ann]

Oh the PBS stations are in Houston which is over 100 miles and Lake Charles which is like 75 miles. The Lake Charles antenna is real low to the ground and from what I read, there is no line of sight to it from here because of the curve of the earth in addition to many, many man made obstructions. I've also read that the Lake Charles PBS antenna is low power and doesn't cover much of an area.

It would be much better to just go ahead and plan on a satellite because once it's up the reception is really exceptional and the HD picture is stunning! With a satellite they can get PBS, Hostory, RTV and maybe a few other things I haven't explored yet since I don't have a motorized dish up yet.

 

[Mikhel]

Oh the PBS stations are in Houston which is over 100 miles and Lake Charles which is like 75 miles. The Lake Charles antenna is real low to the ground and from what I read, there is no line of sight to it from here because of the curve of the earth in addition to many, many man made obstructions. I've also read that the Lake Charles PBS antenna is low power and doesn't cover much of an area.

It would be much better to just go ahead and plan on a satellite because once it's up the reception is really exceptional and the HD picture is stunning! With a satellite they can get PBS, Hostory, RTV and maybe a few other things I haven't explored yet since I don't have a motorized dish up yet.

Ufff yeah it's a long distance (i can get a few tv stations from San Diego and i'm almost 100miles but picture quality it's not good due to mountains, back when it was analog i could get them well).

The best bet then it'll be to get:

a) Three offset dishes (at least 3ft, the bigget the better);

b) Three double output lineal Ku LNBs (you can go with universal LNBs but i've had better experiences with plain linear LNBs);

c) A couple of DiSEqC switches, you know, one per receiver (I've had good experiences with Chieta switches, also i always have at least one or two spare swithces, just in case );

d) Two weather proof casings for the switches; either something like this:

a weatherproof DiSEqC

e) Six short runs of RG6 cable (one per output of the LNBs);

f) Two long runs of RG6 cable (one per switch);

g) Two FTA receivers, at least one that can do HD.

All that's left after that its to find a place to put the three dishes and plan on how to wire everything up; what i've done in my house is to get a short run of RG6 cable out of every LNB, 3-4 meters, maybe a bit more, enough so as to get to the DiSEqC switch that's grounded and at the same time its 'hidden' and protected from weather under my house roof*and then the long runs of RG6 go inside my house directly to my receivers.

*i also installed a DiSEqC at my house and since i didn't have a weatherproof casing i just took one of those rectangular disposable tupperware containers, drilled 5 holes, one per cable, made all the connections, sealed the holes with silicon (not hot glue) and some of these (i had a cramping tool but maybe you'll buy the cable already crimped so those "thingies" won't be of much help to you):

Since my home-made tupperware casing is away from the sun i don't worry about it degrading so fast as if it was exposed.

I hope i didn't confuse you with all my babbling Dee =P.

I'm looking forward to hear from your neat project =).

Cheers and have a nice weekend.

PS
Did your plans on having C-Band materialized? the last thing i remember is when you tried to pick up one of the dishes on your ex's patio but was like a post-apocalyptic scene from Mad Max LOL (that's a reference young people won't understand)... or something like that.

Mike

 

[Dee_Ann]

Ufff yeah it's a long distance (i can get a few tv stations from San Diego and i'm almost 100miles but picture quality it's not good due to mountains, back when it was analog i could get them well).

The best bet then it'll be to get:

a) Three offset dishes (at least 3ft, the bigget the better);

b) Three double output lineal Ku LNBs (you can go with universal LNBs but i've had better experiences with plain linear LNBs);

c) A couple of DiSEqC switches, you know, one per receiver (I've had good experiences with Chieta switches, also i always have at least one or two spare swithces, just in case );

d) Two weather proof casings for the switches; either something like this:

a weatherproof DiSEqC

e) Six short runs of RG6 cable (one per output of the LNBs);

f) Two long runs of RG6 cable (one per switch);

g) Two FTA receivers, at least one that can do HD.

All that's left after that its to find a place to put the three dishes and plan on how to wire everything up; what i've done in my house is to get a short run of RG6 cable out of every LNB, 3-4 meters, maybe a bit more, enough so as to get to the DiSEqC switch that's grounded and at the same time its 'hidden' and protected from weather under my house roof*and then the long runs of RG6 go inside my house directly to my receivers.

*i also installed a DiSEqC at my house and since i didn't have a weatherproof casing i just took one of those rectangular disposable tupperware containers, drilled 5 holes, one per cable, made all the connections, sealed the holes with silicon (not hot glue) and some of these (i had a cramping tool but maybe you'll buy the cable already crimped so those "thingies" won't be of much help to you):

Since my home-made tupperware casing is away from the sun i don't worry about it degrading so fast as if it was exposed.

I hope i didn't confuse you with all my babbling Dee =P.

I'm looking forward to hear from your neat project =).

Cheers and have a nice weekend.

PS
Did your plans on having C-Band materialized? the last thing i remember is when you tried to pick up one of the dishes on your ex's patio but was like a post-apocalyptic scene from Mad Max LOL (that's a reference young people won't understand)... or something like that.

Mike

WOW oh WOW!!

That's quite an ambitious project you've lined up there!

Well, I'll talk it over with my folks and see what they think. I don't think Dad would mind multiple dishes but I'm sure that Mom won't. We'll see who rules the roost..


Cband... Ugh..

Well, I had one that was taken down for me but it got stolen before I could arrange for it to be delivered to me.

What I do have though is an old 10' dish the ex left here at the house in pieces. Several key pieces to it seem to be missing so it's going to be very hard for me to do anything with it. I have no idea where to find a pole to mount the thing on. My dad looked it over and he said it has to be 3 1/2" around and at least 12' long because a lot of it has to go in the ground due to the fact that we are prone to frequent hurricanes here, we've had quite a few bad ones over the last 5 years, with two of them being direct hits.

So I don't know what to do about that big dish. I think it's more than I can handle, I really don't have a clue how to make the missing parts for it, the thing that holds the lnb out in the middle. It needs a motor too but I was thinking that I could add that later, for now I would just aim it at the satellite that has This TV, I really want that channel back.

As badly as I would like to get all this done, to be realistic, it's probably not going to happen. I haven't been well and I'm not getting any better so my big plans are all just day dreams that go poof when I come back to reality.


The stuff for my folks, my Dad would buy all the stuff and I would just help him line it up on the satellites. I've had decent luck finding them with my dishes and pretty much know how to do it. So I won't have to do anything physical there, just find the satellites for him.

But the things I want to do for myself, probably won't happen. As much as I would like it to, I'm just not up to it anymore. Sigh......

As for the tuner for my folks, I think what I need is one that does mpeg4 and AC3. I don't understand the AC3 stuff, just that it's some kind of sound thing. The mpeg4, I kind of understand. So that's the features I need to look for when trying to find a tuner for them. My folks are in their 70's so they don't need fancy features, they need simple. Simple and basic.


Well, thank you for the excellent shopping list there, I will print that out and talk to my folks about it and we'll see where that goes.