Input on New Feature Development for GEOSATpro Receivers

[SatelliteAV]

Your feedback on the GEOSATpro firmware releases is welcome!

We are considering adding a new feature on the next release and want your feedback.... We are ready to offer a user selectable, automatic weekly or manual channel update feature available by satellite OTA updating from Galaxy 19 KU for hobbyists who have activated the receiver in the Advanced mode during installation. Initially, we can provide an update for all Galaxy 19 KU channels, but would like to quickly expand if there is a demand to include all C and KU band channels on all satellites visible to North America. This will mainly target new viewers and the casual viewer who just wishes to power up the receiver, enjoy programming and not worry about channel management, blind scanning, deleting, etc.

Input?

The next step...... We have prototyped a newbie KU-band installation process, and am interested in your feedback.

In an initial automatic set-up, the viewer only selects if the system is linear (LO 10750/22Khz off/DiSEqC #1) circular (LO11250/22Khz on/DiSEqC #2), motorized or fixed. If fixed, the viewer selects the desired satellite and the install process jumps over the motorized steps. If the system is motorized, either the longitude and latitude or zip/postal code is entered into the receiver and the receiver sorts the list of available satellites and channels based on the install location. In either motorized of fixed the receiver then selects the strongest TP on the satellite and displays a signal strength and signal quality meter along with corrected compass reading, fixed LNBF skew setting, fixed elevation setting or motor latitude setting then the motor automatically swings to the southern satellite.

Once the initial channel is found and the dish is peaked, OK button is selected and if fixed, a secondary weaker channel is displayed to peak. If fixed, the install is complete and the viewer presses exit to view available channels. If motorized the dish swings to a second satellite located midway in the western arc. The strongest TP is automatically tuned and the motor/dish is adjusted and peaked. The left arrow is pressed and the motor swings back to southern satellite to confirm tracking. If not tracking, the motor/dish is slightly adjusted. Press left or right arrow to select the previous western satellite or go to new eastern satellite located midway on eastern arc. The motor/dish is peaked then press the right arrow to return to the southern satellite. The left and right arrows will continue to track between these three positions until the OK button is pressed to permit the motor to stop on all available satellites and tune strongest channel to verify tracking, pressing the down arrow places the receiver on the weakest channel on the satellites. Once the tracking is confirmed, the exit button is pressed to exit the installation menu and allows channel viewing of any satellite in standard viewing mode.

Input?

FYI..... Yes, these features are in development for both the current MPEG2 receivers and also the next generation of MPEG4 SD and MPEG4 HD units (and we are being tight lipped about a production date)!

 

[zamar23]

Very interesting set of features and quite on true FTA target!

However, considering the market trends, while keeping these features, it may be a good idea to look at development of an HD Multimedia Linux Receiver for future models. Given the fact that many folks have early HDTVs and other equipment with low end chipsets delivering mediocre scaling, upconversion, visible artifacts and such, the need for a good multimedia processor chip and more memory in a modern Sat STB, and a challenging set of firmware features beyond traditional FTA choices seems to be prevalent.

It does look like adding "Easy Button" may increase FTA STB sales. On the other hand, people looking for such Button don't usually bother to install true FTA, at least themselves. In pirate world its a different story, "Easy Button" may help a lot.

 

[Larry1]

That sounds like a great feature for initally setting up the dish and motor, however, once setup it would takeup a good portion of the system flash memory for a feature that would only be used when setting up the dish/motor. A larger flash memory chip should not add too much to the set box price. What I would like to see, is more timers, with the ability to set them for multiple days throughout the week. Instead of daily and M-F, I would like a checkbox for each day of the week and let the user decide what days he wants to record. Thay way they can setup reoccuring timers for every Monday, Wedneday, Thursday and Friday using only one timer. Also, a network interface with a web interface on it for setting the timers. That way one can access the box over the internet, enter a password to allow access, then view or set the timers from a remote location. With a lot of the set top box makers having eithernet ports on the boxes, a basic design of a current box could be addapted for these features.
Ulimately, a box with TiVo like features for scheduling and recording, multimedia features for playing files from all sources, and connectivity to controll it remotely from across the internet, and to stream those files to other devices like phones or computers.

 

[zamar23]

Yah, it seems like an unavoidable trend, despite it may impose a lot of pressure on resources of South Korean traditional Sat STB makers, given price and time to market constrains. Regarding recording timers though, don't forget, talk is about true FTA receiver, where no PG is usually offered.

 

[Larry1]

RTV takes up all my timers currently. I thought there was some talk on the Glorystar system to hopefully have a guide in the future. The GeoSat system is highly tailored for the Glorystar system with channel and system updates from the satellite. Would be nice if once they get their guide working (I don't know at this point as I'm pointed at AMC9 currently) if they could also add the RTV listings for AMC9.

 

[SatelliteAV]

That sounds like a great feature for initally setting up the dish and motor, however, once setup it would tak eup a good portion of the system flash memory for a feature that would only be used when setting up the dish/motor.

The "easy button" feature would only be available with the original factory flash. Once the receiver is updated, the motor installation feature would be removed unless the user reloaded the factory file back onto the receiver via USB. The total file size for this feature is very small and would not limit the satellite, transponder or channel lists in North America.

I guess that no one on this forum had trouble installing their first motor.....

 

[stogie5150]

For my part, no to both ideas.

Learning to align a motor isn't rocket science, with the directions that Sat Av and Sadoun supply, its doable. Plus, most people come here first and get an idea of what they are facing before the get a motor anyway. And then we are here to help them in any case, taking the pressure off the dealers to get their questions answered.

The auto update is a BIG no-no in my eyes. Who decides what channels to put up? Are they going to blind scan all the sats and then shoot out a channel list to EVERYONE? BAD idea, because that will include things that are NOT discussed in open forum. I understand from a Glorystar point of view, but for a True FTA hobby, blind scanning and learning how it all works is PART of it, IMO.

I think those two reasons are why you haven't gotten too much feedback, Brian. Just nobody wanted to say it. Well, I just did. :up

 

[Larry1]

The "easy button" feature would only be available with the original factory flash. Once the receiver is updated, the motor installation feature would be removed unless the user reloaded the factory file back onto the receiver via USB. The total file size for this feature is very small and would not limit the satellite, transponder or channel lists in North America.

I guess that no one on this forum had trouble installing their first motor.....

Great idea of the alignment program being on the original factory flash. Good use of the resources.
Probably all but a very few had trouble installing their first motor...... good question for a poll.

 

[Larry1]

The auto update is a BIG no-no in my eyes. Who decides what channels to put up?

The auto update is a feature that, at least up to now, can be turned off. For the Glorystar user, I see this as a great feature. (and I'm not a Glorystar user. I think the auto update is tailored to the Glorystar user and we will not see alll the satellite channels added, just the religious themed ones... maybe Brian can coment on this) For the hobbiest, simply turn off that feature and the box becomes a standard satellite receiver. One box can be a Glorystar box or a standard receiver.

 

[tdti1]

For my part, no to both ideas.

The auto update is a BIG no-no in my eyes. Who decides what channels to put up?

That was my thoughts when I saw this, we already have to many blabbing out feeds and events on the net in open forums, this would make it worse and we could say good bye to many feeds and open programming that is not intended for us in the first place.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Whoa.... slow down thar, pardner....... don't start a stampede based on what yur 'fraid of or what'cha thinks could happen..... Let's talk turkey 'bout what wur perposin'.....

To clarify, the satellite update feature of the GEOSATpro DVR1100c, DSR100c and DSR200c receivers is made up of two components, firmware and channel lists.

GEOSATpro receivers are either operated as a hobbyist system with all the advanced features that would be expected of an advanced FTA receiver or a preprogrammed Glorystar system. The feature set just depends on how you choose to activate the receiver. We believe that we have incorporated the best features of all past hobbyist favorite receivers and have produced a new generation of receivers which outperform previous generations of MPEG2 receivers. The GEOSATpro receivers have sensitivity and thresholds that exceed the Mercury II and features that are above the Visionsat IV-200. We offer features that are not found with any other North American unit.

The OTA-SSU firmware updating allows the user to update the receiver at anytime via satellite and retain the option to save previous firmware versions and channel lists for future reference or use to a USB drive or computer.

Our current OTA-SSU (satellite updating) channel list contains only the Glorystar channel list of Christian channels, but we are considering on adding the same channel updating feature for all Galaxy 19 channels which are posted in an open forum. This would be a great feature for the systems that are installed for viewing Galaxy 19 FTA and ethnic programming. Many of these systems just sit, gathering dust as the viewers are unaware how to keep them updated for new and moving channels.

We are talking with SatelliteGuys "The List" and possibly expand the list to be the definitive guide to support all publicly acknowledged channels on satellites that can be viewed in North America. Rest assured that we would not be pushing any channels that are not posted in either Lyngsat or SatelliteGuys. Certainly not our goal to expose any "secret channels"!

BTW.... Installing motors is rocket science and not too many people are able to do it on their own. How many, even here on the forum, have struggled despite the excellent support of dozens of online assistants and multiple posts? The current method of motor installs was developed when technology couldn't support walking someone through the process. Maybe we can remove a little of the geek factor and research that is necessary for the average Joe to have a successful motorized install?

 

[zamar23]

I guess that no one on this forum had trouble installing their first motor.....

It's a common knowledge that selecting components and installing a first motorized Sat TV reception system requires solid amount of research and for many people a lot more time and try-and-fail efforts they could ever imaging. Both above suggested features are quite useful. Lets not forget however, without going through that exercise its hardly possible to become a true FTA hobbyist. On the other hand, its not necessary for everyone to be a hobbyist to enjoy good sat TV programming, including free channels. :up

 

[stogie5150]

I aint saying you CAN'T do it, but what you describe will be just as hard. I admit there are a lot of things to look for in a motor install, that can't be compensated for in electronics. IF, and only IF, the installer/user can GUARANTEE that the dish elevation scale is right will what you describe work. Then you STILL have to start with a plumb mast, motor bracket square with the pole and kept that way...once you get all that, the method you describe with the strong/weak TP will work, but by then our neophyte installer will already be 3/4 there.

Call me a naysayer, I just don't think it can be done much easier than we do it now. It isn't supposed to be easy....Give a man a fish, feed hm for a day...teach him to fish, feed him for life. Some things have to be learned, to be appreciated.

And Brian, your old GS120 motor had some real good instructions....we miss you not having them anymore, we can't steer people to your product...I love mine, even though I don't use it much anymore...

 

[guapoharry]

A lot of this question belies the issue of what sort of user base is this intended to serve...? Newbie whats? Hobbyists with some technical or DIY ability or what?

If it's not as simple as aiming a pizza dish at DBS providers, it's too complicated for the newbie DIY base.

As far as the idea about...

guide to support all publicly acknowledged channels on satellites that can be viewed in North America. Rest assured that we would not be pushing any channels that are not posted in either Lyngsat or SatelliteGuys.

Could you elaborate on this?

IMO, leave it to the Glorystar package unless you get approval from the content provider. Then, Ill bet they want a piece of the action. Or, they might not be too thrilled.. OTOH, if I'm wrong about this, it would please me... Nevertheless. if they find out someone is capitalizing on their free (ITC) content, that's a road leading toward encryption.

Anyone remember the Soundtrtack channel? That's one that was publicly acknowledged on Lyngsat. Then coincidentally perhaps, after there was some buzz about it, it went scrambled.

IMO, FTA is one path where people find out about content. Then once it's available, people ask Pay TV providers for it. My x and Fash ion TV could be included in this catagory. One went dark around the time it started playing on D*. It's still listed as ITC on Lyngsat. The other one currently has promos telling people to subscribe to it on E*. It's only a matter of time.

Frankly, I think there's too much on Lyngsat. BTW, Who's this Frankson character?

 

[zamar23]

Well, its safe to assume that ultimate goal of most non-government sponsored content providers is to be eventually included in a Pay TV package. Should it preclude a 3d party from providing a cumulative timetable of such FTA channels in a form of Program Guide? In fact, such commonly distributed PG would benefit providers greatly by increasing their content viewing ratings. We can't and should not prevent successful and talented people from capitalizing on their success. Should we facilitate their success instead? That's a valid question, considering FTA community interest involved.

I guess, the first question to ask would be: WHY most FTA content providers currently don't provide PG incorporated with their signal? An insider's answer would be appreciated.

 

[Corrado]

Personally, I would have more interest in the development areas of DVB-S2 blind scanning and 4:2:2 decoding rather than motor setup and channel lists.

In my opinion, no one has manufactured a receiver that does everything the advanced hobbyist wants. It still appears that it's necessary to own and operate several models to cover all the bases. Each box has it's good points. As of late, we look to boxes built for Europe to fill our needs.

But, I guess the subject here is the novice user looking to get setup and going and get his feet wet in our hobby without the headache.

 

[zamar23]

These things you mentioned are marked moving targets now for every STB brand, no debate required. The subject here however is how to differentiate one FTA product from another based on similar hardware? Every effort in this direction is worthy to support to keep STB competition going based on FTA fans needs instead of addressing more profitable IKS and such crowd wishes. Options offered here in the 1st post will be fine tuned overtime and may become de-facto standards for next gen receivers. My concern is it might not be enough by now without multimedia functions offering to keep a new STB afloat.

 

[SatelliteAV]

FTA Guys are already deciding what channels to post on an open forum, since this is the forum Satellite AV supports and participates in, we are proposing turning to "The List" which is compiled and moderated by you the SatelliteGuys members for the OTA-SSU channel lists. Satellite AV could just as easily partner and download a SatcoDX file, but why not make Satellite Guys the definitive North American list?

Maybe SatGuys are the wrong group of users to query about simplifying FTA introduction as there seems to be a consensus that a merit badge needs to be earned before FTA can really be enjoyed. Instead of telling you what features that we have developed and asking for input, maybe you can tell us about what would have simplified your original newbie entry into FTA.

Forget about suggesting better guides and manuals..... this involves reading and outside of these forums, reading (let alone researching FTA) rarely happens. The average "Joe the satellite guy" pulls everything out of a box, assembles it, then if it doesn't work calls a toll free telephone help line. If all else fails, he may finally skim over the directions. We have developed pretty fool-proof install guides for fixed dish installs and Glorystar customers, yet most telephone support questions are asked because the installer has not read the instructions.

Since the GEOSATpro receivers already have a large supporting market for Glorystar distribution, these proposed features are being considered to introduce an advanced feature FTA product to a larger market. Multi-media may indeed become the standard for all STB's, but they are currently considered to be a niche even in large markets. They are certainly worthy of consideration during development, but currently way beyond the needs of the average FTA purchase. We are looking to raise the bar for features development in mainstream receivers. These features would carry over to the next generation model currently in testing.

How can current hardware with powerful processors and flash memory along with other available technology be used to help a newbie through the first install? Installers, why are you usually called back to a FTA system install? What could make an installers life better? What could be done to make a newbies introduction easier and more rewarding?

 

[zamar23]

Brian,

While these questions are definitely helpful to develop a better product (how did you archive success? "We listened to our customers"), don't discount a "visionary" approach that culminated in very impressive Apple like product and sales accomplishments.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Brian,

While these questions are definitely helpful to develop a better product (how did you archive success? "We listened to our customers"), don't discount a "visionary" approach that culminated in very impressive Apple like product and sales accomplishments.

Thank you for your supportive comments!

I am looking for input from they guys that have been and are on the front lines, of FTA. Most of us never get the opportunity to participate in a focus group for our favorite product or hobby. Wrap some big brains around a challenge and see what can happen!