Just bought a house with Dish Network antennas installed. Need help

[micksh]

Do I understand correctly that the difficulty is to distinguish between 97W and 101W LNBs because they have the same frequency? And for that I need either DISEqC or 22KHz switch?

Would this 4x4 DISEqC switch work without mixing OTA TV?
4x4 DiSEQc Switch from nFusion Canada 1-866-459-5596

And to get OTA mixed I need something like 5x4 DISEqC switch?

If I can't get DISEqC switch today can I connect two LNBs to 2x1 22 KHz switch and then this switch to 5x4 DirecTV switch?
Will I be able to watch 97W and 101W simultaneously in two rooms?

You would need a straight tone or a Diseq switch with single LNBFs, or doal LNBFs to use a DirecTV 4x4 switch, or 5x4 to diplex antenna on it. Make it an x8 for 6 receivers. To incorporate NASA, I'd just combine the ch 3 RF from a dedicated receiver to the antenna line.

What is "straight tone" in this context?

Thank you

 

[1ADAM12]

What is "straight tone" in this context?

Thank you

Don't ask don't tell tone?

 

[Anole]

- some bad ideas:

Here are a few of the possible "solutions" that don't really meet your goals:

1.) all bandstacked, three birds, no TV
Keep the DP-34 and add bandstacked LNBs to your 97° and 101° dish.
problem: the LNBs are too big to fit on your 2° bracket; you'd need two dishes.
Verify power consumption on the DP-34

2.) 97° , 101° , and TV feed
Replace your 97° & 101° LNBs with very small dual-output models.
Wire both outputs of each LNB to a 5x4 or 5x8 multiswitch, as depicted in Switch FAQ.
For best results, use a powered multiswitch.
Hook your TV antenna into the TV input of the switch.
Use a diplexer at each TV to separate the satellite signal from the OTA signal.
I'm not a big believer in diplexers, but if you have strong signals, they can work.

3.) three or four satellites (or more)
Rig a 119° dish with a Legacy (non-bandstacked) LNB with two outputs.
Use the small 97° and 101° LNBs described above.
You'd need two 4x4 (or 4x8) multiswitches and some 4x1 diseqc switches.
Wire up as shown in this larger diagram in the Switch FAQ
It's for 8 LNBs, so you only need about half of what's shown.

To get OTA TV through the #3 wiring would be a larger problem, which we don't address at this time.

 

[classicsat]

Do I understand correctly that the difficulty is to distinguish between 97W and 101W LNBs because they have the same frequency? And for that I need either DISEqC or 22KHz switch?

Yes, that is why you need a switch. Plus it isn't just 97 and 101 signals you need to content with, it is also the vertical and horizontal polarities of each satellite, that is unless your 97/101 LNBFs are bandstacked.

Would this 4x4 DISEqC switch work without mixing OTA TV?
4x4 DiSEQc Switch from nFusion Canada 1-866-459-5596

For bandstacked LNBFs it would work.
It would not work well for 13/18V polarity switched LNBFs.

And to get OTA mixed I need something like 5x4 DISEqC switch?

If I can't get DISEqC switch today can I connect two LNBs to 2x1 22 KHz switch and then this switch to 5x4 DirecTV switch?
Will I be able to watch 97W and 101W simultaneously in two rooms?

No, the 2x1 switch is redundant, as the 5x4 switch does tone switching.

Your LNBFs likely are single 13/18V polarity switched, so the 5x4 switch won't work with them well either.
As said, you need to go bandstacked, or get dual output LNBFs.

What is "straight tone" in this context?

Basically the 2x1 tone switch, where only tone switches inputs, and 13/18V/Diseq are passed to either input.

This is opposed to the DirecTV 4/5/6x4/8/16 switches, where tone and 13/18V select inputs (it has inputs labeled 13V 0Khz, 18V 0Khz, 13V 22Khz, 18V 22Khz, or something like that, and each is held to that state.) Because of those inputs, you need to use dual output or bandstacked LNBFs on a DirecTV switch.

 

[micksh]

Thanks a lot.

As I see, the problem is that I bought single output LNBFs, and not dual-output, right? And there is no way to feed single-output LNBF signal to multiple rooms?
I think I'm starting to understand now. I just saw my DB-34 switch with 3 cables connected and I assumed I could connect any LNBFs to it.

Would the following work?

1. Sadoun KLB2 Monoblock Duo LNBF 4 Degree Dual Output Linear KU
KLB2  0.4db Sadoun Monoblock Dual Linear Offset LNBF LNB
It looks like a wide LNBF covering two satellites and it has dual output.
They say in description that it "Connects to one, two, or more (with optional switch) satellite receiver".
The LNBF on each side of this Monoblock Duo is a UNIVERSAL type. It has built-in DiSEqC switch.
If it works do I need to buy a holder or can I use holder that came with my kit (with 4 degree bracket)?

2. Legacy LNB with two outputs on 119W dish
Dish Network Legacy Dual KU LNBF

3. EXR-508 5x8 Kathrein Multiswitch
EXR-508 5x8 Kathrein Multiswitch
Which power supply should I buy for that? Or should I buy this one: JVI 35-TRDS8 5x8 MultiSwitch.
JVI 35-TRDS8 5x8 Multiswitch
This comes with power supply but it says "Not compatible with DISH Network receivers".

Is there any other catch?

 

[micksh]

3.) three or four satellites (or more)
Rig a 119° dish with a Legacy (non-bandstacked) LNB with two outputs.
Use the small 97° and 101° LNBs described above.
You'd need two 4x4 (or 4x8) multiswitches and some 4x1 diseqc switches.

Anole, can I achieve the same with single 6x8 multiswitch? I actually assumed that when I wrote my previous post. And then I thought that by using that Sadoun Monoblock Duo LNBF I essentially reduce number of inputs by two and this would allow me to use 5x8 switch. But maybe I guessed wrong.

And there is no way to get 119W in the mix without replacing Dish 500 LNBF, right?

 

[Anole]

As I see, the problem is that I bought single output LNBFs, and not dual-output, right?
And there is no way to feed single-output LNBF signal to multiple rooms?

You are correct.
No way, unless they are bandstacked (DishNetwork calls them DishPro).
And while bandstacked is common for DishNetwork, it's not common for FTAers.

I think I'm starting to understand now.
I just saw my DB-34 switch with 3 cables connected and I assumed I could connect any LNBFs to it.

Right, they do make it easy with their bandstacked ways.

Would the following work?

1. Sadoun KLB2 Monoblock Duo LNBF 4 Degree Dual Output Linear KU
KLB2* 0.4db Sadoun Monoblock Dual Linear Offset LNBF LNB

I just reviewed the web page.
That has Universal LNBs, and a built-in diseqc switch.
The docs say it'll do one receiver or two.
However, it's not something we could integrate into a solution for you.
(nothing comes to mind)

2. Legacy LNB with two outputs on 119W dish
Dish Network Legacy Dual KU LNBF

Yes, that or a surplus DirecTV single LNB would do the job, so long as it has two outputs.
You may have a suitable LNB on that dish high and to the left in your picture, and you might retask that dish to the job (?)

3. EXR-508 5x8 Kathrein Multiswitch
EXR-508 5x8 Kathrein Multiswitch
Which power supply should I buy for that? Or should I buy this one: JVI 35-TRDS8 5x8 MultiSwitch.
JVI 35-TRDS8 5x8 Multiswitch
This comes with power supply but it says "Not compatible with DISH Network receivers".

I like powered switches, but cannot recommend beyond that.
Both seem to have four main inputs plus OTA.
Realize though, getting OTA through a follow-on diseqc switch should work, but I haven't tried it.
AND, you'd need to feed your OTA to BOTH multiswitches if you use two, a complication I won't get involved in.

Anole, can I achieve the same with single 6x8 multiswitch?

The 6x8 is not what it appears.
It's really a 4x8 switch, with some extra inputs that cannot be controlled by FTA receivers.
Only DirecTV receivers can access those inputs.
The switch is often available inexpensively, so using it as a 4x8 is okay.
We have a discussion by Pendragon , where he uses one, if you want to read.
Naughty Mods III: 6x8 Switch with Power Insertion
And another thread discusses a different inexpensive 4x8 multiswitch, which doesn't need the mod shown for your use:
Naughty Mods II: 4x8 Switch with All 18V outputs

And there is no way to get 119W in the mix without replacing Dish 500 LNBF, right?

"no way"? Well, there're suggestions above that make sense.

Not sure I covered all the bases, but what you ask for is not a beginner's setup.
It's not hard, but it might be for your first foray into FTA.

 

[micksh]

Well, I said "no way" because I didn't want to buy and install second 30-36" dish.

On the main LNBF page
FREE TO AIR LNB LNBF Dual Single DSS Standard and Universal
they say that this Monoblock Duo Dual "Connects to one, two, or more (with optional switch) satellite receiver"

That is why I was so optimistic. They don't say what switch is required and it could be a mistake. They don't mention more than two receivers on product page. Or, maybe they meant cascading DiSEqC switches? I will call them tomorrow.

Now I see that it doesn't have separate H and V outputs so it can't be used with multiswitch, right? And there is no universal bandstacked LNBF?

That looked like an easy solution. I see that I need to choose some compromise.

 

[Anole]

Two points :

- I'm not feelin' the love for that monoblock.
If I've overlooked somethin and I'm wrong... well, that's the way it goes.

- Not sure if how you took my comment about 119°.
Any 18 or 22 inch dish with a single two-output circular LNB, should be fine.
And as I said above, it's quite possible the small unmarked dish upper-left in your picture, may be be sufficient, if you aim it at 119°.

 

[Sadoun]

they say that this Monoblock Duo Dual "Connects to one, two, or more (with optional switch) satellite receiver"

You could use a 2x4 Multiswitch to connect the two outputs on this Monoblock to multiple receivers. The multiswitch must allow the DiSEqC tone to pass through. Ihave not checked which of our multiswitches would or wouldn't allow tone passthrough.

 

[Anole]

in theory:

You could use a 2x4 Multiswitch to connect the two outputs on this Monoblock to multiple receivers.
The multiswitch must allow the DiSEqC tone to pass through.

Even if the two LNBs were Standard, I'm not sure how this would work.

The existing Monoblock has only two outputs, and there are too many states required to satisfy all the possibilities:
- LNB a low band (LO = 9750)
- LNB a high band (LO = 10600)
- LNB b low band (LO = 9750)
- LNB b high band (LO = 10600)
AND . . . (times)
- high voltage for Horizontal
- low voltage for Vertical
SO, any of the four receivers might need different signals.
Four from the possible eight.
And the two wires from the Monoblock are just not enough to satisfy everyone at the same time.

 

[micksh]

You could use a 2x4 Multiswitch to connect the two outputs on this Monoblock to multiple receivers. The multiswitch must allow the DiSEqC tone to pass through. Ihave not checked which of our multiswitches would or wouldn't allow tone passthrough.

Thank you, Sadoun.

So, if I can use 2x4 multiswitch, can I use 4x4 multiswitch and add Legacy dual LNB on Dish 500 so I could also watch 119W?

And my ultimate goal is to also add OTA TV so it should be 3x4 or, preferably, 5x4 multiswitch. Could you please check if you have such switches?

- Not sure if how you took my comment about 119°.
Any 18 or 22 inch dish with a single two-output circular LNB, should be fine.

Anole, I meant I didn't want to add second 36" dish in order to watch both 97W and 101W if I had to use bandstacked LNBFs. Option 1 in your post here http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...tennas-installed-need-help-5.html#post2078889

So I'm trying to find a way to do it with single 36" dish. I may reconsider it if it's not possible.

 

[micksh]

Even if the two LNBs were Standard, I'm not sure how this would work.
...
SO, any of the four receivers might need different signals.
Four from the possible eight.
And the two wires from the Monoblock are just not enough to satisfy everyone at the same time.

This is getting complicated. If I lower requirements, would it help? I don't need to use all 4 receivers simultaneously.

Mostly one receiver will be watching 101W or 119W and some other one (or two if it is not a problem) - 97W. Don't need to watch 3 satellites at the same time.

I'm sorry I brought you this puzzle.

 

[Sadoun]

The way I see it may work is as follows:

Receiver LNBF settings
22KHz ON
LO Freq: 10600

LNBF OUTPUTS
Output one: 13V (Vertical)
Output two: 18V (Horizontal)

Receiver DiSEqC settings
Rec1: DiSEqC 1 (for Satellite 1)
Rec1: DiSEqC 2 (for Satellite 2)

Rec2: DiSEqC 1 (for Satellite 1)
Rec2: DiSEqC 2 (for Satellite 2)

Rec3: DiSEqC 1 (for Satellite 1)
Rec3: DiSEqC 2 (for Satellite 2)

Rec4: DiSEqC 1 (for Satellite 1)
Rec4: DiSEqC 2 (for Satellite 2)

 

[classicsat]

Thanks a lot.

As I see, the problem is that I bought single output LNBFs, and not dual-output, right? And there is no way to feed single-output LNBF signal to multiple rooms?

Correct.

I think I'm starting to understand now. I just saw my DB-34 switch with 3 cables connected and I assumed I could connect any LNBFs to it.

The DP34 is only for bandstacked LNBFs (where one polarity is downconverted to a frequency above the other).

The DP34 likely cannot be controlled by FTA receivers. I might be wrong on that.

Would the following work?

1. Sadoun KLB2 Monoblock Duo LNBF 4 Degree Dual Output Linear KU
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/S/KLB2-Sadoun-Monoblock-Dual-LNBF.htm

http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/S/KLB2-Sadoun-Monoblock-Dual-LNBF.htm
Not for what I think you want. That is still a 13/18V polarity switched LNBF, which can only directly supply up to two receivers.

Instead, you need two KUL2, which each is a two output 13/18V polarity switched LNBF.

2. Legacy LNB with two outputs on 119W dish
Dish Network Legacy Dual KU LNBF

3. EXR-508 5x8 Kathrein Multiswitch
EXR-508 5x8 Kathrein Multiswitch
Which power supply should I buy for that? Or should I buy this one: JVI 35-TRDS8 5x8 MultiSwitch.
JVI 35-TRDS8 5x8 Multiswitch
This comes with power supply but it says "Not compatible with DISH Network receivers".

You are not using a dishnetwork receiver. Any 5x8 will do to switch two dual output LNBFs to up to 8 receivers. Use the power supply specified. IMHO, get the JVI one.

Is there any other catch?

You will not be able to incorporate your dishnet LNBF into that system, except by getting much more complicated. Since there is only one or two Disnhet channels to get, it is simpler to get basic receivers for them and modulate them with the antenna signal. You can even use ex Dishnetwork receivers for them, as I did to get NASA until I got a proper FTA receiver..

 

[micksh]

The way I see it may work is as follows:
...
LNBF OUTPUTS
Output one: 13V (Vertical)
Output two: 18V (Horizontal)

I am sorry, I am a newbie trying to understand.
Sadoun, do you mean KLB2 monoblock has two such outputs? But product page says "Voltage-Controlled H/V Switching (13/18 V)"? Is it possible?

You will not be able to incorporate your dishnet LNBF into that system, except by getting much more complicated. Since there is only one or two Disnhet channels to get, it is simpler to get basic receivers for them and modulate them with the antenna signal.

I planned to mix OTA TV with 97W and 101W if this is what you mean by modulating with antenna.
So in this case if I wanted to watch 119W and 101W in the same room I would have to run a second coax cable, right?
I currently have one coax cable in each room but it is also an option that I may have to consider.

Thanks everybody

 

[classicsat]

I planned to mix OTA TV with 97W and 101W if this is what you mean by modulating with antenna.
So in this case if I wanted to watch 119W and 101W in the same room I would have to run a second coax cable, right?
I currently have one coax cable in each room but it is also an option that I may have to consider.

Thanks everybody

You need one coax. What I am saying is, since the is only one or two FTA channels on Echostar 7 at 119, and distributing antenna anyways, you need not incorporate the 119 satellite signal into the satellite feed system, which will add extra complication.

Instead, run the 119 dish lines direct to receivers to each receive one of the couple of channels, and combine the RF out of them onto the antenna. One of them will need an RF modulator with other than channel 3 or 4.

At your TVs you tune those channels like an antenna channel.

 

[kapusta1]

I actually like the dishnetwork system. I use the FSS bandstacked LNBs with my own bracket for 97W and 101W mounted to the dish 1000plus connected to the DPP44 switch. This way I only have to have one cable per LNB and one cable per receiver.

 

[micksh]

Instead, run the 119 dish lines direct to receivers to each receive one of the couple of channels, and combine the RF out of them onto the antenna. One of them will need an RF modulator with other than channel 3 or 4.

At your TVs you tune those channels like an antenna channel.

Ah, I get it now, I just didn't think of two receivers. Found used Dish Network 322 receiver on eBay. It has two tuners, two RF outputs, one of them on channels 21-69. Should work, right?
This is probably the simplest solution. No replacing Dish Network LNBF. Single 36" dish, single 5x8 multiswitch.
Thanks a lot!

 

[classicsat]

Ah, I get it now, I just didn't think of two receivers. Found used Dish Network 322 receiver on eBay. It has two tuners, two RF outputs, one of them on channels 21-69. Should work, right?
This is probably the simplest solution. No replacing Dish Network LNBF. Single 36" dish, single 5x8 multiswitch.
Thanks a lot!

Yes, at least for NASA and Angel One, which are nationally mapped.
ION, which I would think is regionally mapped, might be another story.