Large Dish Help

[tryinghard]

You know that old saying "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous" well seems that fits me !

I installed a 2- LNB Elliptical 18"x24" dish about 2 ½ yrs ago it when pretty well, well I have been getting rain fade more than ever so I trim some branches away but really didn't help still was losing a signal (90+) so I looked into covers, nah I'll go with more gain so I brought a Channel Master Gain Master DIRECTV Triple LNB (Setup for DBS reception of 101 - 110 - 119) Dish Combo 35.3 inch x 26.2 inch or 75cm with Terk BMS-58, 5 x 8 Multiswitch, let the rain come ! well first I got to get it to work ?

The mounting is solid and vert. I have a clear shot (Directv menu) in the 239.5 (except for a few electrical lines) Elev. 31.4 Tilt is 56.3 (from Directv menu, Zip code 19428) Skew for the Channel Master its 124.4, Az 227.4, Elev. 31.5 (I guess the Skew difference is the larger dish? ) and the 12.1 degs difference in Az between the Directv and Channel Master ? the multiswitch is located at the dish with one line going into the house and one coax line powering the switch coming out of the house.

All connections where double checked and tagged, dielectric grease used and heat shrink on all points, power is turn on to the multiswitch, I am using a Monster meter after zeroing it to mid-scale I get a bang to the high side 10+ but the message is still is the same, zero strength, adjust 3 degs !

My question is (besides what am I doing wrong) what LNB am I trying to tune it ? I guess I want the 110 in the middle, but the Directv menu only lists 101 and 119 and something called "Alternate for fine tuning" I did some checking on this forum but didn't find anything like what I have, any ideas, a help web site I can go too ?

Also I did put this new dish in a new spot so at least I can just use my 18" until I get this straight ahh I mean until you guys get this straight :- )

Thanks for any help …. TryingHard

 

[PSB]

How old are the receivers? Some of the older ones don't have 110w listed, you may now need to upgrade to new receivers : (
The "Alternate for fine tuning" just toggles between the 101 satellite and the 119 satellite so you can balance the signal level between them.

I would also use the skew setting for the Channel master and not what you are getting on screen, as the Channel Master dish skew markings are different from the Phase III that the on screen menu is giving you, the difference in your azimuth may be that one of them takes magnetic deviation into account, I would just aim in the middle of the two and you will not be far away.

 

[tryinghard]

Peter

<” How old are the receivers? Some of the older ones don't have 110w listed, you may now need to upgrade to new receivers : ( “>

The receiver was brought in March ’01 it is an RCA model #DRD480RE just does 101 & 119 :- (
I guess I need to update, but I would think I could at least tune in the 101 ?

<” The "Alternate for fine tuning" just toggles between the 101 satellite and the 119 satellite so you can balance the signal level between them.”>

Thanks that makes sense

<” I would also use the skew setting for the Channel master and not what you are getting on screen, as the Channel Master dish skew markings are different from the Phase III that the on screen menu is giving you, the difference in your azimuth may be that one of them takes magnetic deviation into account, I would just aim in the middle of the two and you will not be far away. “>

I am using the Channel Master Skew (I got that right :- ) and you know I think you hit it on the head about the “magnetic deviation” if I remember right it is about 10 degs or so here ! and I will try that tomorrow, but I do get a signal bounce from the monster meter, anyway thanks.

Thank you for the reply….. TryingHard

 

[PSB]

When you get all sorted out let us know how much your signal JUMPS up, its a great dish. You can forget about rain fade : )

 

[tryinghard]

Peter,

<” When you get all sorted out let us know how much your signal JUMPS up, its a great dish. “>

Hay are you making fun of my $25 Monster Cable satellite finder ? :- ) you know maybe I will adjust the sensitivity control down more instead of letting the needle just jump to the high side, maybe it could help, I forgot to add that instead of using Channel Master Sat C-Sat B Combiner (looked cheap :- ) that came with the Sat C-kit, I used a Zenith Digital 2-way splitter 75 ohm, 5-2300MHz Quad shield, 12 VDC powerpass for satellites, anyway it was twice as big and it was coated in a gold color ! :- )

<” You can forget about rain fade : ) “>

Forget about rain fade! ?


ATTACKS RAIN FADE - helps reduce loss of signal strength during heavy rain and storms! Get up to 65% gain in signal strength

IDEAL FOR COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL INSTALLATIONS - the GainMaster DBS antenna is a snap to install - anyone can do it!

You mean “they lied to me” ? :- )

Thanks Peter, …… TryingHard (glad I am on vacation this week looks like this is no weekend job)

 

[tryinghard]

Peter,

A update, I un-did the heat shrink on the gold splitter and install the Channel Master one just in case, nothing really happen (I still get a strong signal on the monster meter) so I am thinking maybe I do need a newer receiver, since the menu only tunes in the 101 & 119 sat, but the one thing in the back of my head I can help thinking why won’t it tune in 101 sat or the 119 ?

Is there a way to check the LNBs, they are new, is there an ohm reading or something I can check ?

Thanks…. tryinghard

 

[PSB]

Just re-read your first post (need to start doing that more) after setting the skew, elevation.......you should be pointing the dish at the 101 satellite, if all your angles are good and the mount is plumb and level the other satellites will be there, or there abouts, before you invest in new receivers make sure you NEED the programming on all three satellites. So I would hook up directly to the 101 LNB and point the dish, then reconnect everything, the 101 LNB is on the far right from behind the dish.

 

[tryinghard]

Peter,

<”.. before you invest in new receivers make sure you NEED the programming on all three satellites. So I would hook up directly to the 101 LNB and point the dish, then reconnect everything, the 101 LNB is on the far right from behind the dish. “>

Well I don’t really need the HD as of yet ($$$) but it might come in the future, I have my locals, I really want the larger dish for the extra gain for the rain fade, I like the idea of hooking up the 101 LNB directly by-passing the 110 C sat, good idea, at installation time I marked with a sharple on each LNB arm with the sat name & number, tagging the coax, the only thing is replacing the heat shrink but no big deal and its worth finding out or I have almost $200 in non-working junk mounted on my shed wall ! :- ))) can’t do it until friday I will let you know what happens.

Again Thanks Peter, ……. tryinghard

 

[tryinghard]

There is a pulse I think

Peter,

One thing I forgot to tell you last time my receiver will do a 3 LNB oval dish 101, 110, 119 so that problem solved, ok I disconnected the Sat C and ran the Sat B both leads into the multi-switch (receiver is on 2 LNB oval) for the first time I got life, a peak of 42 ! on 101, transponder 22, so far haven't got it back or higher ? also it seems I get a signal on two birds one strong bouncing off 10 scale (monster finder) the other one a few degs to the west is a signal but it is lower 7 / 8 I am trying the higher signal with the 101 and different transponders 101 Sat A from 1 to 32, 119 Sat B from 22 to 32.

I don't know how much more I can do today, seems it's getting very windy w/clouds maybe rain in SE-PA

You think that peak reading of 42 was a fluke ?

Thanks…. tryinghard

 

[PSB]

Remember the sat C LNB is a different kind of LNB from the other two, I think it may be time to call in an installer, but if you have all the angles right, point the 101 LNB (fer right from behind) and get good signal on the 101 bird the dish should be pointed, it will then just be a case or rewiring it as per the manual.

 

[tryinghard]

Peter

<" Remember the sat C LNB is a different kind of LNB from the other two, ">

Roger that one, C LNB output to the combiner, w/one coax to combiner from sat B then output from combiner coax to sat b in the multi-switch.

<" I think it may be time to call in an installer, but if you have all the angles right, point the 101 LNB (fer right from behind) and get good signal on the 101 bird the dish should be pointed, it will then just be a case or rewiring it as per the manual. ">

lots of double checks on the angles, and re-checked the wiring many times all coax are tagged the multi-switch is right at the mast, lengths of coax coming into the house to the receiver is under 100',
I do have overhead power lines (3) horz (home power) in the way it seems approx. 75' away any problems ?

As for calling in an installer I am up for that, but after I try everything I can do, I am sure glad I kept the small oval up ! in case that time comes any ideas what company I should call in South/East PA ? a little west of Philly. At this time 1:30pm est heavy rain the sat is out on the 18 x 24 dish ! I would love to have the large dish up and running.

Thanks again …. tryinghard

 

[PSB]

The power lines should not be a problem, you would need to be VERY unlucky for them to be blocking the line of sight, I am sure you will eventually get it and you have back up, check here for an installer in your area.....

www.dbsinstall.com

 

[tryinghard]

Peter,

<" The power lines should not be a problem, you would need to be VERY unlucky for them to be blocking the line of sight, I am sure you will eventually get it and you have back up, check here for an installer in your area.....">

Thanks for the link and also the advice you gave me I will let you know how I make out.

ps 1:45 signal came back it's 77 in clear it's 92+ only 15 mins not to bad : -)

Thanks again... tryinghard

 

[sksatellite]

Last time I heard from someone said, 3 LNB on larger dish is has the focal point incorrectly. Maybe this is what you encountered.

Also, with larger dish that is not in the receiver set up guide, you really need to twist, raise or lower the dish to get maximum signal. Have you have your receiver and TV at side while you do the installation, Without proper tools, this is the best way for DIY.

 

[tryinghard]

Peter,

I worked w/the dish today this time bringing out a small tv first thing I notice was the Monster sat meter was pretty right on, it has approx. 8 degs of play as soon as the signal drops off at either end so does the signal on the receiver. I got a reading of 62 on 101 Sat A, but nothing on 119 sat B zero reading, I really don't know why I can't get a signal on sat B. Strange I couldn't get a higher reading on 101, I adjusted the elev 3 up and 3 degs down from point till the signal dropped off the elev. it is about 1 deg off from point. 30.5 instead of 31.4 point.

I think I am going to try to re-locate the dish right along side of the 18" x 24" oval since I get readings on that one in the low 90's, it's mounted on top of the side door overhang, I would rather have it out back hidden so to speak but I think I am running into power line trouble there are more than 3 lines horz., 3 more mounted vert. below the top 3 running horz. Also there is a vert. spacer bar right down the middle of the dish about 70' out I think the combination is what is giving me no more than 63 peak! But hay getting better at least I got a steady reading better than any time before !

Take care, tryinghard

 

[tryinghard]

sksatellite,

<" Last time I heard from someone said, 3 LNB on larger dish is has the focal point incorrectly. Maybe this is what you encountered. ">

Well the only thing I used to mount the 3 LNBs was the hardware bracket that came w/the units and I followed the instructions and double checked, if there is anything else, a tip, I am listening I take just about all advice installing this monster : -)

<" Also, with larger dish that is not in the receiver set up guide, you really need to twist, raise or lower the dish to get maximum signal. Have you have your receiver and TV at side while you do the installation, Without proper tools, this is the best way for DIY. ">

Yes please read my reply to Peter above I did that today it really worked out well, I think you got a point about "not in the set-up guide" I have an CM 35 x 26 oval w/3 LNBs but I know their talking about the 18 x 24 DTV dish, about twist, raise or lower, maybe that is why when I had the best reading for Sat 101 (in Az) I tried changing the Elev. I could go from 27.5 to 32.5 before losing the signal I am suppose to be at 31.4

Thanks for the help, …. tryinghard

 

[PSB]

Yes go by the signal not what the TV tells you, try to peak in the 101 satellite the best you can no matter what the settings on the dish at this point, the elevation should not need changed, it may be a good idea to relocate the dish, if you get it working you can always move it back, don't give up!

 

[tryinghard]

Peter,

<” Yes go by the signal not what the TV tells you, try to peak in the 101 satellite the best you can no matter what the settings on the dish at this point, the elevation should not need changed, “>

I really tried to get it over 62 I was going back and forth 10s of times trying to get it higher, that is why I tried the Elev. Thinking maybe I am off a bit or the size of the dish, but when that really didn’t get me any higher readings I am thinking “it’s the place” change it.


<” it may be a good idea to relocate the dish, if you get it working you can always move it back, don't give up! “>

That is what I am thinking after I got the dish at 62 on the scale I took a look down field that’s when I notice it was closer to the 3 vert power lines and the vert. spacer ! I mean right down the throat !
So I guess next weekend I will do the move, but lessens learned, DON’T TAKE DOWN THE ORGINAL DISH UNTIL THE NEW ONE WORKS !!!!! : -))))))

Peter thanks a lot you been a great help, and also thanks to sksatellite,

I hope the people who come here for advice, appreciated the time people like you guys give !

Hopefully next weekend I’ll have good news, one way or another I’ll tell you.

Thanks…. tryinghard

ps: Its something I can have a dish up and running in under 5 mins (18" round one LNB, on a tripod) when I went camping last year (forcast some rain, it did all weekend) glad I brought the dish and 10" tv : -)