Low VHF interference

freeisforme

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 21, 2017
123
20
south jersey
When you make a folded dipole, you cut it to the right length for a certain channel. It will work best for that channel and will pickup other channels, but not quite as well. If you use a larger diameter wire, it will pick up the other channels better; we call that greater bandwidth.

If you use a larger diameter wire, it is difficult to say how much better the other channels will be, but the general rule is the larger the diameter, the greater the bandwidth.

Good twinlead comes with 18 gauge wire, but most is 20 gauge. Cheap FM folded dipole antennas use 30 gauge twinlead.

View attachment 147168
View attachment 147169
I use 14 gauge THHN
View attachment 147170

One inch diameter copper tubing would be the best, but I don't think it is worth the trouble and expense.
thats the twin lead i have.. i got it from frys.com
 

rabbit73

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 17, 2020
29
25
S.E. VA
Your report image
Thank you for the report image. I wanted the link so that I could click on the report for the coverage map and the terrain profile.

I did another report based on your image. It doesn't compromise your location anymore than your image or a TVFool report because the coordinates are truncated (shorter) and the red marker on the coverage map is not at your location. Those are safety features built-in the rabbitears reports for the default setting of Shift Shown Location for Privacy Yes.

I set the distance at 100 miles to show WJLP in NYC.
RabbitEars.Info

freeisformeSatGuysReportRE3_1.jpg


When I look at the map of your area, I am reminded of a trip that my father and I took down Barnegat Bay on the Inland Waterway in our 26 ft cabin cruiser. We slept on the boat two nights and fished for blowfish during the day. I also had a sailboat which was a 15 ft Barnegat Bay Sneak Box, designed by Perrine.
 
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freeisforme

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 21, 2017
123
20
south jersey
blowfish, i think are funny how they puff up. did you catch anything eles? i hope you had smooth sailing. the water by barnegat light house can be ruff with just the boat traffic. did you attempt to go out in the ocean or stayed in the bay?
 

rabbit73

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 17, 2020
29
25
S.E. VA
blowfish, i think are funny how they puff up. did you catch anything else?
I don't remember catching anything else on the trip, but we did see some skates because the water was shallow and clear. Back at the cottage I used to catch snapper blues and flounder. I caught softshell crabs and dug littleneck clams for my parents.
the water by barnegat light house can be ruff with just the boat traffic. did you attempt to go out in the ocean or stayed in the bay?
We stayed in the bay.
freeisformeSatGuys-InlandWW2.jpg

NJ IntracoastalWW2.JPG

My father had to take the boat outside when he bought it.
NJ Boat Outside2.jpg

NJ Brielle Inlet2.jpg
 

freeisforme

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 21, 2017
123
20
south jersey
I don't remember catching anything else on the trip, but we did see some skates because the water was shallow and clear. Back at the cottage I used to catch snapper blues and flounder. I caught softshell crabs and dug littleneck clams for my parents.
We stayed in the bay.
View attachment 147244
View attachment 147245
My father had to take the boat outside when he bought it.
View attachment 147246
View attachment 147247
thats a long ride by water. i never went past barnegat light. The farthest south i went is Atlantic city. There a road by me named great bay boulevard where you can watch skates, turtels and other fish swim by. there people fishing there all the time. i never did go claming. my brothers have but not me. my friend and i went fishing for flounder about month ago, he cought 7, I cought 5. all where to small we let them go. its nice around here in the summer, but winter time not much to do.
 

freeisforme

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 21, 2017
123
20
south jersey
if i where to use the 14 awg wire instead of the twin lead would it improve the reception of channel 2? i dont mind losing 6abc.
 

rabbit73

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 17, 2020
29
25
S.E. VA
if i where to use the 14 awg wire instead of the twin lead would it improve the reception of channel 2? i dont mind losing 6abc.
If both antennas are about 98 inches long, the 14 gauge antenna might do slightly better, but it is difficult to say for certain.

freeisformeSatGuysReportRE3_2.jpg

freeisformeSatGuysCovWDPN.JPG

freeisformeSatGuysP3WDPN.JPG

freeisformeSatGuysP2WDPN.JPG

freeisformeSatGuysCH2CircularPol (2).jpg


I think what will make the biggest difference in the reception of channel 2 is the location and orientation of the antenna. Your antenna has a power line in front of it. Channel 2 has circular polarization, so it has a vertical component. Part or all of the antenna might need to be vertical.
 

rabbit73

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 17, 2020
29
25
S.E. VA
rabbit73 here is channel 2 from Thursday morning. it would be nice if i was able to receive the channel this good all the time. i also was receving ( not watchable) WJLP out of Middletown NJ too.
View attachment 147126
freeisformeSatGuysCH2 adjusted gain2.jpg

freeisformeSatGuysCH2 adjusted gain3.jpg


The reception of RF Channel 2 will vary at your location. OTA signals constantly vary in strength; your noise interference is also most likely to vary in strength. Both affect the SNR.
 

freeisforme

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 21, 2017
123
20
south jersey
If both antennas are about 98 inches long, the 14 gauge antenna might do slightly better, but it is difficult to say for certain.

View attachment 147310
View attachment 147311
View attachment 147312
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View attachment 147314

I think what will make the biggest difference in the reception of channel 2 is the location and orientation of the antenna. Your antenna has a power line in front of it. Channel 2 has circular polarization, so it has a vertical component. Part or all of the antenna might need to be vertical.
your the first person to explain way the polarization is listed as circular. i assumed that it was being broadcast that way once i angled the antenna and i was able to receive the station. i have asked some people and the couldn't give me an answer.
 
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freeisforme

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 21, 2017
123
20
south jersey
i will give the 14awg wire a try. it may take me a month but i will get there. i wll also take pictures of the twin lead im using now and the 14 awg wire. thank you again.
 

rabbit73

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 17, 2020
29
25
S.E. VA
your the first person to explain way the polarization is listed as circular. i assumed that it was being broadcast that way once i angled the antenna and i was able to receive the station. i have asked some people and the couldn't give me an answer.
I'm glad that you found my information helpful.

I have been doing antenna experiments since I was 8; I'm now 87 and still doing them.

Years ago, the TV transmitting antennas were usually designed for horizontal polarization, which meant that the receiving antennas had to be horizontal. When the TV broadcasters had to change their antennas because of the channel Repack by the FCC, they added some vertical power. The theory is that the vertical polarization would make it easier for mobile devices to receive the new ATSC 3.0 signals.

When the horizontal power and vertical power are the same, it's called circular polarization. When the horizontal and vertical powers are different, like 80H/20V, it's called elliptical polarization.
 

rabbit73

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 17, 2020
29
25
S.E. VA
i will give the 14awg wire a try. it may take me a month but i will get there. i wll also take pictures of the twin lead im using now and the 14 awg wire. thank you again.
I'm glad to hear that you are willing to try some more antenna experiments and hope that you will be able to improve your reception of channel 2.

I tried to help a poster on the Canadian forum to receive VHF-Low channels, but he was using an FM folded dipole which wasn't long enough for 2 and 4.

cyclist44DHCantwnna_1.jpg


He is worse off than you are; he can only receive CH 9

cyclist44DHCreportTVF3.jpg


I tried to get him to make a folded dipole for 3, which would be between 2 and 4. Now you know why my experimental VHF-Low antenna is for CH 3.
 
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PasTypique

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 9, 2016
48
40
Michigan
I'm glad that you found my information helpful.

I have been doing antenna experiments since I was 8; I'm now 87 and still doing them.

Years ago, the TV transmitting antennas were usually designed for horizontal polarization, which meant that the receiving antennas had to be horizontal. When the TV broadcasters had to change their antennas because of the channel Repack by the FCC, they added some vertical power. The theory is that the vertical polarization would make it easier for mobile devices to receive the new ATSC 3.0 signals.

When the horizontal power and vertical power are the same, it's called circular polarization. When the horizontal and vertical powers are different, like 80H/20V, it's called elliptical polarization.
I never knew this until your explanation. Thanks!!
 

freeisforme

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 21, 2017
123
20
south jersey
I'm glad to hear that you are willing to try some more antenna experiments and hope that you will be able to improve your reception of channel 2.

I tried to help a poster on the Canadian forum to receive VHF-Low channels, but he was using an FM folded dipole which wasn't long enough for 2 and 4.

View attachment 147345

He is worse off than you are; he can only receive CH 9

View attachment 147347

I tried to get him to make a folded dipole for 3, which would be between 2 and 4. Now you know why my experimental VHF-Low antenna is for CH 3.
his antenna only looks to be 4ft stretched out. he should have listened to you. no one knows everything. if you need help politely ask.
 

freeisforme

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 21, 2017
123
20
south jersey
I'm glad that you found my information helpful.

I have been doing antenna experiments since I was 8; I'm now 87 and still doing them.

Years ago, the TV transmitting antennas were usually designed for horizontal polarization, which meant that the receiving antennas had to be horizontal. When the TV broadcasters had to change their antennas because of the channel Repack by the FCC, they added some vertical power. The theory is that the vertical polarization would make it easier for mobile devices to receive the new ATSC 3.0 signals.

When the horizontal power and vertical power are the same, it's called circular polarization. When the horizontal and vertical powers are different, like 80H/20V, it's called elliptical polarization.
rabbitears.info owner " forget his name" should incorporate your answer here into the website.
 
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